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  #51  
Old 22nd December 2006, 21:42
Roger Wincer Roger Wincer is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Smith View Post
Hi All
I sailed on various ships, last being 3rd mate on the CLYDESDALE on her 2nd or 3rd trip. Can't remember any names but believe the old man was the one who later went with the Royston Grange.
I was R/O on CLYDESDALE for the first and I think the second too. I paid off in January 1968 in Rotterdam. The Master was Woolcott. Can't remember any other names though. The R/O who relieved me was Doug Owen who was famous for his ship models. I wonder if he did one of her?

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  #52  
Old 2nd January 2007, 02:08
Jon Vincent Jon Vincent is offline  
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Houlder Brothers Crews & Ships

It was interesting to read all the correspondence concerning the "Royston", these ships were crewed by a very close knit group of people, once in it was hard to leave, I will never forget the pride the whole crew had in the "Royston". I joined in Jan 1968 as 3rd Off when the vessel was laid up during the meat ban, on the Queen Elizabeth wharf in Falmouth Docks, for me it was a good appointment as I lived locally. The Hardwicke was moored outside us and the "Duquesa" the other side of the jetty. We were the live vessel looking after the other two Ships, the "Hardwicke" left first under the command of Capt T A G Head the senior master at the time in late Feb 1968, The "Duquesa" left next under the command of Capt George Boothby, she had a lot of problems being activated and I got to know Capt "George" well, as I ran errands as the local boy for him. The "Royston Grange" left last on 4th March 1968 for the River plate light ship. Of the deck staff through the lay-up I was the only one that sailed but I kept in touch with Tristan Tate the Ch/Off for years. Our sailing master was Capt Don Murray another Cornishman. The lay-up was very beneficial to me, as by the time the ships sailed I knew every square inch of them and three days before we sailed I met my wife who worked as a Nanny in the Falmouth Hotel. In June 68 I got engaged and was close to my 1st Mates, pay on the meat boats was the lowest in the company, I approached Capt D Parkin (head of personnel) and asked for promotion the 2nd Off, He offered me the 2nd off job on the new bulk carrier "Clydesdale", it took until the end of Oct 68 to leave the "Royston" needless to say the period in between I was subject endless ribbing from the other officers and pressure from Capt Murray who thought I was committing suicide. I kept in touch with my friends up until their deaths on the "Royston". I left the "Cerinthus" 8th April 72, after a few days a home I had a cal from Capt Dennis asking me if I would Join the "Royston" I was told that it would be as 1st off and my wife would be expected to go as well, my friend Colin Craddock was Ch Off along with his wife Jan on their honeymoon and that as a special concession his younger brother James would sail as cadet on the trip, Houlders never let that happen normally, I declined the offer much to my wife's dismay as our first house was due to be finished in the next couple of weeks, I saw the disaster on the news and got a telephone call within minutes, I sat in silence for a couple of days, Capt Dennis sent me the "Service if Commemoration" with a the names, I could not go to the actual service as I did not know how I would face the families of my friends. The final voyage of the "Royston" was supposed to be a happy event for all concerned it ended in one the saddest tragedies in MN history, The beautiful ship marked my life for ever, I met my wife and enjoyed the friendship of some the finest people ever to go to sea.
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  #53  
Old 2nd January 2007, 08:43
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Catp Jon V. Vincent,

Thank you for your well written and moving memories. Yes, those were very much the times when the crews remained together as a tight family ship by ship and anyone seeking to leave the family was regarded as "most strange". Certainly a time for very mixed emotions to find the ship you could have been on. was involved in such a tragedy.

It is a curious semi coincidence that you left the “security” of the Royston Grange to join a Hadley Boat; I left the happy security of Hadley's Cumbria in 1972 and declined Captain Parkin’s suggestion to join the Royston Grange in April of that year, joining the Cavendish instead, as I wanted to gain experience in Gas Tankers. - If I have the right man, Tristan Tate was from the Shetlands? A very decent man indeed and I sailed with him on the Cumbria. I have taken the liberty of adding an “e” to Hardwicke.

Regards
Mark

Last edited by non descript; 29th December 2008 at 08:09.. Reason: colour change
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  #54  
Old 3rd January 2007, 03:14
Jon Vincent Jon Vincent is offline  
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Hi Mark. I don't mind having my spelling corrected, I always prided myself as seaman first and foremost. Tristan Taite (my wife corrected that one) was from the Shetland Islands, but stayed with his sister, who had a boarding house at St Ives. I served as a cadet in Prince Line, where everyone envied Houlders, I joined after my 2nd mates ticket, the difference was night and day, the loyalty to the company and ones ship was incredible, I credit John Houdler and Capt Parkin and his assistant Mr Bachelor. It was an very family orientated company. the senior meat boat Captain and Chiefs chose their own staff and took it very personally when they left, Capt Don Murray gave me the Houlders jack staff flag when I left, telling me that I would be back, I still have the flag, A lot of that company spirit died when Houlders absorbed a lot of the Furness people when their fleet contracted around 1973/4. A real irony to all this is that I am now a Mooring Master engaged in offshore lightering operation in the gulf of Mexico, I now rely on the very very thing that cause that awful collision, inter-ship suction, to put two large tankers together. Regards Jon
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  #55  
Old 3rd January 2007, 10:47
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Originally Posted by Catp Jon V. Vincent View Post
Hi Mark. I don't mind having my spelling corrected, I always prided myself as seaman first and foremost. Tristan Taite (my wife corrected that one) was from the Shetland Islands, but stayed with his sister, who had a boarding house at St Ives. I served as a cadet in Prince Line, where everyone envied Houlders, I joined after my 2nd mates ticket, the difference was night and day, the loyalty to the company and ones ship was incredible, I credit John Houdler and Capt Parkin and his assistant Mr Bachelor. It was an very family orientated company. the senior meat boat Captain and Chiefs chose their own staff and took it very personally when they left, Capt Don Murray gave me the Houlders jack staff flag when I left, telling me that I would be back, I still have the flag, A lot of that company spirit died when Houlders absorbed a lot of the Furness people when their fleet contracted around 1973/4. A real irony to all this is that I am now a Mooring Master engaged in offshore lightering operation in the gulf of Mexico, I now rely on the very very thing that cause that awful collision, inter-ship suction, to put two large tankers together. Regards Jon
Hi Jon.
You are definitely right about the loyalty towards Houlders' from their Crews. Sadly Capt. Parkin passed away some years ago. I don't know where Ken Batchelor is now. When he left Houlders he took up a position at Buckingham Palace as some sort of Usher( I think) Maybe Mark(Tonga) would have more info on this. The last I heard of John Houlder was that he was still the manager of Elstree Airport and still piloting his own plane. Another guy in Personnel was Mike Louis who dealt with the Ratings, he was Houlders thro & thro. I consider myself lucky in having become involved within the Houlder Family of employees.
Regards
Leo
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  #56  
Old 3rd January 2007, 17:56
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Jon and Leo,

Yes I concur very much with your sentiments – for whatever reason Houlders was indeed like a happy family and there was immense loyalty and support for us all. Sadly the comment about the company spirit evaporating with the arrival of FW does have an element of truth (this is not meant to offend those people from FW, it was just a fact of life and a reflected a different culture), although curiously when, later on, the entire lot was taken over by the Tung family, this feeling of once again working with a family concern returned. There were always people who failed to grasp what was really going on who railed against the Chinese, but if the truth were known, they were as loyal and devoted as the original owning family – just different; which not that surprising given the huge difference between Anglo-Saxon and Chinese culture.

Without a doubt, I do believe the leadership of this family spirit came from John Houlder and led to him picking some special people to head up various departments. It would be wrong to concentrate on just a few names, but having seen their names already mentioned above, I certainly recognize the value that Dennis Parkin and Ron Batchelor added – without them I would have certainly have had a very different life. - I’m sorry to say that I am unaware of the whereabouts of “Batch”, but I will have a search. I still remember his almost childlike delight when, having run an advertisement in the national press for sea staff, using a photograph of an unknown (to him) fresh faced apprentice, with the caption “Meet John, he has traveled the world…..come and join him at Houlders” – he was amazed when “John” walked into the office one day and they could put a name to the face. It is a matter of debate whether the image of this young lad’s “charm and innocence” as he was seen taking a sight, scrubbing the deck and looking at the radar, actually resulted in anyone joining the company…..
Regards
Mark
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  #57  
Old 3rd January 2007, 18:59
NINJA NINJA is offline  
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Batch

Hello Tonga,

I believe I might be able to shed some light on "Batch', I will follow it up with an ex-Houlders man and I believe there is a royal connection.

Regards

Tom.
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  #58  
Old 3rd January 2007, 19:35
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marinero marinero is offline  
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Hello all.
I mistakenly give "Batch" the name of Ken when in fact it was Ron. I do apologise for any confusion. One for you Tonga, I have in my posession a book by an Edward E. Stevens called Shipping Practices published 1946(5th Edition) in it are various examples of Charter Parties,Bill of Sale,Bills of Lading(Coastal&Liner)Plus A River plate outward Form from Houlder Line Do you know if this guy worked for Houlder in those days of yore. These are original forms as far as I can tell.
Reagrds
Leo
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  #59  
Old 3rd January 2007, 19:53
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Hello Tonga,

I believe I might be able to shed some light on "Batch', I will follow it up with an ex-Houlders man and I believe there is a royal connection.

Regards

Tom.
Thanks Tom, maybe he will arrange for you to get an invitation to Kate's wedding.
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  #60  
Old 3rd January 2007, 19:58
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Hello all.
I mistakenly give "Batch" the name of Ken when in fact it was Ron. I do apologise for any confusion. One for you Tonga, I have in my posession a book by an Edward E. Stevens called Shipping Practices published 1946(5th Edition) in it are various examples of Charter Parties,Bill of Sale,Bills of Lading(Coastal&Liner)Plus A River plate outward Form from Houlder Line Do you know if this guy worked for Houlder in those days of yore. These are original forms as far as I can tell.
Reagrds
Leo
Leo

No worries, and I get confused without any outside influence - as for your Mr Stevens, I do have a record of a Mr E.F Stevens, who has been Assistant Company Secretary since 1934, was appointed as Company Secretary in June 1944, so it is more than likely that he would have been on hand to write a book, but I cannot be sure and it could just be a coincidence, as the initials do not match up.

Regards
Mark
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  #61  
Old 4th January 2007, 12:45
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marinero marinero is offline  
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E.F.Stevens

Good Morning Mark.
I have checked the book and the auther is E.F.Stevens So I reckon they are one and the same. I don't seem to get things right these days.
I got this book and some old LLoyds Registers from Houlders Office when I was working overtime one Saturday morning re-arranging the Personnel Office for the incoming Furness/Shaw Saville staff (they were stuck at the back of a cupboard) The books not the new staff members!!!
Regards
Leo
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  #62  
Old 4th January 2007, 12:59
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Hi Leo,

Given the correct protocol that existed, I'm sure he was always addressed as Mr Stevens throughout his career, so no wonder the F got lost.....

I still have a copy of staff memo sent to the Managers at 53 Leadenhall Street saying "It has come to our notice that staff are lighting up at their desks before 3pm - whilst Managers are permitted to do this within the privacy of their own offices, staff are to be reminded that the must adhere to Company Policy."
Sadly I cannot remember what the company policy was
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  #63  
Old 4th January 2007, 17:05
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Enquiry Report

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Originally Posted by miwp View Post
I have a copy of the Liberian Maritime Board investigation into the collision with the Tien Chee if anyone is interested.
Hi MIWP.
How do I get a copy of that from you, it sounds worthwhile reading.
Much obliged
Leo
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  #64  
Old 5th January 2007, 02:01
Jon Vincent Jon Vincent is offline  
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John Houlder

Mark. Concerning John Houlder, I don't know if you recall the "Uncle John" the first self propelled oil support rig, or in its day "John's Folly" as every one thought in the company at the time. I remember sailing from the Tyne on the "Stolt Stuart" and it was aground just inside the breakwater on the North Tyne side of the river, it never made the sea on it maiden voyage, quite a black eye. Well its still going strong, I am based in Galveston and the "Uncle John" has been in port regularly over the last five or six years, since hurricanes "Katrina" and "Rita" she has been in big demand and sometimes in the way during our lightering ops, I have no idea who owns or operates her these days. Regarding "Batch" he never lost touch with his boys as he called us even after we left the company, I often wonder how he would fair in to-days "Hire and Fire" mode of operation. Regards John.
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  #65  
Old 5th January 2007, 08:03
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John,

Thanks, but there is in your text a degree of confusion with the names and indeed the history. The Oregis was the original name (when she was an ore-carrier) and also the name the converted ship had, when she set out with on her brief voyage towards the mouth of the Tyne and you saw her perched on the Black Midden Rocks.

The Uncle John that you have recently seen is a custom built semi-submersible built in 1977

This thread will add some more history of those days.
https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showthread.php?t=207

Kind regards
Mark

Last edited by R58484956; 11th June 2013 at 15:05..
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  #66  
Old 6th January 2007, 00:35
Jon Vincent Jon Vincent is offline  
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Houlder Brothers Crews & Ships

Mark. I stand corrected, I have been told that I have a photo of the "Oregis" high and dry at low water as we passed her, I will have to go through some hundreds a photos now to find it. I was only on one ore carrier, the "Orepton" 15th to 20th Jan 71 to take the ship from Middlesbrough to King Harry ferry for lay up (she was well past her best to say the least) and then back to the "Stolt Stuart" on the Tyne. Regards Jon.

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  #67  
Old 6th January 2007, 13:03
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Originally Posted by Catp Jon V. Vincent View Post
Mark. I stand corrected, I have been told that I have a photo of the "Oregis" high and dry at low water as we passed her, I will have to go through some hundreds a photos now to find it. I was only on one ore carrier, the "Orepton" 15th to 20th Jan 71 to take the ship from Middlesbrough to King Harry ferry for lay up (she was well past her best to say the least) and then back to the "Stolt Stuart" on the Tyne. Regards Jon.
Hi Jon.
If you do find that photo of "Oregis" on the rocks, could you please upload it to the gallery. I have one, but it's copied from an old newspaper cutting and consequently not of a very good quality.
Regards
Leo
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  #68  
Old 6th January 2007, 13:17
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Leo,

I've got a couple of Oregis on the rocks that I took from the top of the "battery" at South Shields. I was at Martec at the time doing my electronics ticket and living in digs not far from where the pic was taken.

I'll post them later when I've sorted them out. They're slides in 30 year old cardboard mounts that are falling apart so a bit of "fiddling" is necessary.

If you look in my gallery there's a rather rough shot of her in drydock after the incident.

I remember the saga of trying to lift her off with the crane. I think the jib collapsed on the foclse but the weather had turned and you couldn't see much from South Shields so I missed that bit.

Cheers
Kris/
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  #69  
Old 6th January 2007, 16:43
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Hi Kris.
Thanks for that link. Now downloaded it. I was on the Oregis for a couple of years out of Aberdeen. Happy days. When she was awaiting disposal on Tyneside I liberated some of the Houlder Line silverware, the clock out of the Master's cabin and one of the paintings. I wanted a porthole but that many had gone by the time I got there, the Engineer J.Grey had got fed up welding blanks over the holes so I had to pass up that one.
[TONGA If you read this and want a piece of Houlder's Silverware(Needs cleaning) give me a shout.
Regards
Leo

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  #70  
Old 6th January 2007, 18:24
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Originally Posted by Catp Jon V. Vincent View Post
Mark. I stand corrected, I have been told that I have a photo of the "Oregis" high and dry at low water as we passed her, I will have to go through some hundreds a photos now to find it. I was only on one ore carrier, the "Orepton" 15th to 20th Jan 71 to take the ship from Middlesbrough to King Harry ferry for lay up (she was well past her best to say the least) and then back to the "Stolt Stuart" on the Tyne. Regards Jon.
Jon,
No worries, that's the thing about ships, they either change their name, or take a name from a previous life, or even worse, don't change their name just when everyone thinks they have.

It would be good to see an image of her as and when you find time.

Anyway, the man (John Houlder) is still going strong and has not changed his name.

Regards
Mark

ps. There is some confusion over as to when she changed her name, but the image here, of her very sadly aground, does back up the belief that she was Oregis at the time, notwithstanding some books refering to the change taking place before this stranding:

http://www.southtynesidetoday.co.uk/...sectionID=6149
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  #71  
Old 7th January 2007, 21:49
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Originally Posted by Marconi Sahib View Post
Leo,

I've got a couple of Oregis on the rocks that I took from the top of the "battery" at South Shields. I was at Martec at the time doing my electronics ticket and living in digs not far from where the pic was taken.

I'll post them later when I've sorted them out. They're slides in 30 year old cardboard mounts that are falling apart so a bit of "fiddling" is necessary.

If you look in my gallery there's a rather rough shot of her in drydock after the incident.

I remember the saga of trying to lift her off with the crane. I think the jib collapsed on the foclse but the weather had turned and you couldn't see much from South Shields so I missed that bit.

Cheers
Kris/

Kris, as good as his word, has very kindly added the image here:

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galler...hp?photo=46251
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  #72  
Old 8th January 2007, 15:10
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Copied Threads

As the posts had moved a little away from the Royston GrangeI have taken the liberty of copying them to this more general thread - I trust no one is offended by my attempts to keep it in some sort of order.

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  #73  
Old 8th January 2007, 15:45
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Oregis on the Rocks

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tonga View Post
Kris, as good as his word, has very kindly added the image here:

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galler...hp?photo=46251
Thanks for that Kris, thats a brilliant picture, shows exactly the predicement she ended up in. Thanks god she was repairable as she went on to establish Houlder Offshore as a serious contender in the Sub-Sea world, and was the inspiration for the "Uncle John"
Regards
Leo
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  #74  
Old 9th January 2007, 00:24
Jon Vincent Jon Vincent is offline  
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Oregis

Mark, Kris. That s a very good photo of the "Oregis" aground. My photo is in a file box with my other memorabilia in storage, I know for a fact that it does not show the crane trying to lift the bow off. I am scheduled for my month duty in the next few days. When I get back I will go through the boxes, I have not opened them for at least twenty years now. I know I have a few general around deck of the "Royston" as well, if they are still any good I will post them for you. Regards Jon.
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  #75  
Old 9th January 2007, 19:58
GALTRA GALTRA is offline  
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re: Shipping Practice by E.F.Stevens

Tonga, thought you might like to see this, I was amazed just now when I went to down-load it that Marinero only recently mentions the book from which I copied it.. Except that my copy is the sixth edition - 1947 a year later. I wondered why it was used in the book but now I know the Houlder connection. All the best, Charley
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