Idling diesel engines? - Ships Nostalgia
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Idling diesel engines?

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  #1  
Old 26th July 2014, 18:26
Hugh Ferguson's Avatar
Hugh Ferguson Hugh Ferguson is offline  
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Idling diesel engines?

I wonder if some kindly engineer might spend a few minutes advising about this subject.
It has to do with an auxiliary engine in a yacht, namely a 1 cylinder Yanmar. I believe that idling such an engine, for long periods, causes carboning of the injector and is consequently, to be avoided.
My wife-who does all the sea-going these days-rubbishes the idea.

My mind harks back to days in convoy when, if there happened to be the odd motor-ship plodding along at 7 knots they might, on occasion, be given permission to break station for the engineers to open her up to get rid of some of the carbon blocking the injectors.
That exercise resulted in a mini display of clouds of sparks flying out the exhaust and talk of scavenge fires etc..

Please help, I need some professional back-up for me to win this argument
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Old 26th July 2014, 18:31
gordy gordy is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugh Ferguson View Post
I wonder if some kindly engineer might spend a few minutes advising about this subject.
It has to do with an auxiliary engine in a yacht, namely a 1 cylinder Yanmar. I believe that idling such an engine, for long periods, causes carboning of the injector and is consequently, to be avoided.
My wife-who does all the sea-going these days-rubbishes the idea.

My mind harks back to days in convoy when, if there happened to be the odd motor-ship plodding along at 7 knots they might, on occasion, be given permission to break station for the engineers to open her up to get rid of some of the carbon blocking the injectors.
That exercise resulted in a mini display of clouds of sparks flying out the exhaust and talk of scavenge fires etc..

Please help, I need some professional back-up for me to win this argument
Idling any internal combustion reciprocating engine for long periods is not a good thing IMHO. The fuel won't burn properly and lub oil in the combustion spaces will not burn off in the same way as when normal revolutions are used.

IE it's not a good thing, tell the wife, but make sure you have a pre-planned escape route!
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Old 26th July 2014, 18:46
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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Originally Posted by gordy View Post
Idling any internal combustion reciprocating engine for long periods is not a good thing IMHO. The fuel won't burn properly and lub oil in the combustion spaces will not burn off in the same way as when normal revolutions are used.

IE it's not a good thing, tell the wife, but make sure you have a pre-planned escape route!
If the old girl is naturally aspirated then you only have a minor maintenance issue. But if she's turbocharged spectacular failure may occur as the unburned but burnable residue on the turbine inlet side ignites providing in turn lots of surplus air surging through the upping and downing gubbins to feed it. Positive feedback, negative implications on the balance sheet.

How strange to have a diesel driven wife.
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Old 26th July 2014, 19:29
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re: diesel idling

Attached: FordTransitDiesel.jpg (90.6 KB)

Off the Ford (USA) website for the now being built near Kansas City, Missouri, full size Ford Transit van.

Greg Hayden
Attached Images
File Type: jpg FordTransitDiesel.jpg (90.6 KB, 145 views)
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  #5  
Old 26th July 2014, 19:36
berbex berbex is offline
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Idling engines suffer from many ailments, one of which is usually the operator.

Beware carbon buildup in the exhaust system in diesels where excess oxygen is available at idling. If it catches fire you're in for some display.
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  #6  
Old 26th July 2014, 19:52
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Hugh Ferguson Hugh Ferguson is offline  
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Many thanks to all; I feel much better now!
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  #7  
Old 26th July 2014, 20:05
Davie M Davie M is offline  
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Was taught always to run a diesel under load. The story was if you let it idle it polished the bores
I run a Perkins engine on my yacht and have always used this principal.
Davie

Last edited by Davie M; 26th July 2014 at 20:07.. Reason: addition
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  #8  
Old 26th July 2014, 20:11
berbex berbex is offline
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Many thanks to all; I feel much better now!
Sorry but I would'nt be if I were you. I know that feeling and its like being between the devil and the deep blue sea.

No kidding about exhaust fires. Had one once. When you see the exhaust pipework all red-hot and glowing, it was not amusing. Easy to set fire to something else near. Recently on another job the subject came up and was shown a stack with flames leaping up from the top. Of course it was'nt a one cylinder Yanmar.
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  #9  
Old 26th July 2014, 20:25
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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The 'Tons' fitted with Deltics were notorious for throwing lumps of carbon out of the funnel after periods of slow running when opened up for a speed run, upper decks were cleared rapidly. They were of course opposed piston multi cylinder two strokes. Unless under warranty sorting the particulate filter on a diesel engined car is big business for Garages from those who have a diesel engined car for tootling around town.
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  #10  
Old 26th July 2014, 20:44
robinhood_1984 robinhood_1984 is offline  
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As has been said above, it does have ill effects. Many, if not most trucks here in North America, unlike Europe, are not fitted with independent heaters in the truck to keep the cab warm while the main engine is turned off at night so if you go to any truckstop or interstate rest area, the vast majority of trucks will be idling to produce warm air, or AC in the summer. One way of combating the ill effects of long periods of idling is to have it on a high idle setting on the cruise control, this however greatly increases the noise and obviously burns more fuel. However, the idea of burning several thousand dollars of fuel each year to idle an engine and the complete reluctance of trucking on this continent to modernise and purchase $1200 bunk heaters is mind boggling. Fortunately I work for a slightly more forward thinking company and have a diesel generator on my truck which provides mains power inside the cab, keeps the batteries fully charged, generates heat in the winter and runs a separate AC system when its warm.
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  #11  
Old 27th July 2014, 15:03
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Thanks to all. I don't have much confidence in it making any difference: she's driven the same Peugeot car for 7 years and still doesn't-or want-to know if it is front or back wheel drive!
I can't bear to see an engine mal-used any time.
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  #12  
Old 27th July 2014, 15:15
JohnBP JohnBP is offline  
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Yanmar

I had a 1 cyl. diesel Yanmar on a 29 ft yacht. The manual said that idling for more than 5 min should be avoided as it would cause "coking" of the injector. john
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  #13  
Old 27th July 2014, 16:39
ChasD ChasD is offline
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For a few years now I have had a bit of experience with small diesels in both the marine and land based environment, especially engines of the older varieties. Idling, or running at low revs / low power causes both fouling of the injectors and glazing of the bores, both principally due to the lower cylinder temperatures and the consequent build up of unburnt deposits. More of a problem with the older indirect injection engines where build ups can also occur in the pre-combustion chamber and the channel to the main cylinder. Boat owners with older BMC diesels or the Standard Motors derivatives will experience this, Perkins are rather better but can still suffer. More modern types of lube oil with higher levels of additives can exacerbate the problem in an older type of engine so more ‘primitive’ lower grade lube oils (though not lower quality !) can be better. On boats it is often common practice to run the main engine at low load, for long periods, for charging the domestic batteries and this can be the principle cause of problems in this area. A ‘good thrashing’ gets rid of some of the carbon on the injectors but does not usually improve the glazing problem. ( This latter subject was well covered in an earlier thread on the bigger engines.)

Hope I'm not treading on any interdepartmental toes !

Regards .... Chas
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  #14  
Old 27th July 2014, 19:46
omcgarry omcgarry is offline  
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Full load is the optimum , otherwiseyou are only creating problems further up the line , trying to explain this to old hands was a nightmare, but we are saving fuel Back*in *the day this was their thinking , I remember debating this with one Ch Eng. Met him again years
later then a Super and the first thing he said to me was "you were right
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  #15  
Old 27th July 2014, 19:54
Reef Knot Reef Knot is offline
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How strange to have a diesel driven wife.
No sh1t Sherlock!!
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  #16  
Old 27th July 2014, 23:17
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I've never been able to divine what drives my wife, it sure ain't logic!
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  #17  
Old 28th July 2014, 12:11
berbex berbex is offline
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I've never been able to divine what drives my wife, it sure ain't logic!
Don't bother. Especially if she is the only wife you have.

Most likely she thinks the same way of you. Mine does anyway.
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Old 28th July 2014, 13:33
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re: diesel idling
Attached: FordTransitDiesel.jpg (90.6 KB)
Greg Hayden
Wonder how they raise the EGT?

My Audi A7 diesel has start/stop but I don't like it and over-ride every trip. I think it's only fitted to get the engine into a lower emissions category.
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Old 29th July 2014, 17:05
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I DID mean Audi A6
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  #20  
Old 29th July 2014, 18:53
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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It also saves you money Basil? Although like yourself I do not like it either.
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  #21  
Old 30th September 2017, 07:28
Chillytoes Chillytoes is offline  
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A slightly different problem associated with slow running - a ship I was on was fitted with twin Mirrlees Monarch engines and because of the running schedule, the engines were required to be run at reduced speeds so as to arrive in port at the desired time. The bottom end bearings were traditional cast-in white metal type and these suffered continual failure until they were changed for Tri-metal slippers. No more problems!
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Old 30th September 2017, 08:10
berbex berbex is offline
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The failure symptoms ought to indicate the mode of failure. Has been an interesting aspect on many plants, - and illuminating. If it is generator plant, the source of failure may be surprising.
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  #23  
Old 30th September 2017, 08:19
david freeman david freeman is offline  
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Originally Posted by Varley View Post
If the old girl is naturally aspirated then you only have a minor maintenance issue. But if she's turbocharged spectacular failure may occur as the unburned but burnable residue on the turbine inlet side ignites providing in turn lots of surplus air surging through the upping and downing gubbins to feed it. Positive feedback, negative implications on the balance sheet.

How strange to have a diesel driven wife.
Is this about ladies or a reliable diesel engine? If one allows the lady to rabbit on at half speed, then when one makes land fall, is it straight as an arrow and supercharged to those expensive boutiques and other types of shop that ladies wish to browse in? Then all hell is let loose with the tonge and those family purse strings, it is time for you to hit the bottle and croak all chocked up, and now where to go, and no money to take you anywhere?? Ps Who Owns the yacht, who's name is on the deeds??
Or do you survive on the MN allotment, made from ones pay? remember those days?? Women what a trifle to discuss the glories of a diesel engine with, you could be thrown your trifle dessert with heavy contaminated lub oil instead of sweet custard!
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  #24  
Old 30th September 2017, 09:24
stehogg stehogg is offline  
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Agree with*7 idling causes glazing on the liner bores, better to start up and put gradual increasing load on engine
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  #25  
Old 30th September 2017, 13:59
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Satanic Mechanic Satanic Mechanic is offline  
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Well no.1 place to start is RTFM -Read The....erm.....Manual

Here's one for yanmars

http://www.yanmar.nl/theme/yanmarpor...-MANUAL_en.pdf

Page 45 is good

But as a general rule of thumb

Start and allow engine to settle for 5 minutes and
Load up

Stopping remove load and allow engine to cool for 5 minutes off load and stop

Best not to let it idle except initial start and after unloading
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Last edited by Satanic Mechanic; 30th September 2017 at 14:04..
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