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Air conditioning.

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  #1  
Old 6th August 2012, 08:27
Philthechill Philthechill is offline  
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Question Air conditioning.

Having been involved with Industrial Refrigeration for the final twenty-odd years of my working life I was recalling t'other day, about the various 'fridge jobs I'd done. Inevitably I thought about the absolute brilliance of the thinking behind the pumping-cold-brine-through-the-steam-coils-of-the-Thermotak's, on "Maskeliya"-----and got to wondering, who came-up with the idea.

Many will, no doubt, remember the scheme to "Air-condition" the accomodation and how it wasn't too bad at all for such a "Heath Robinsin" effort.

The fact the Sterne compressor, asigned the a/c duty, could provide such a good effort was amazing as the load on them, especially in the Red Sea, was incredible. I do seem to recall it (the compressor), was constantly, (because of the sea and ambient temperatures), fully-loaded.

Does anyone have any idea who came-up with the idea? Salaams, Phil
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  #2  
Old 6th August 2012, 09:37
nick olass nick olass is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthechill View Post
Having been involved with Industrial Refrigeration for the final twenty-odd years of my working life I was recalling t'other day, about the various 'fridge jobs I'd done. Inevitably I thought about the absolute brilliance of the thinking behind the pumping-cold-brine-through-the-steam-coils-of-the-Thermotak's, on "Maskeliya"-----and got to wondering, who came-up with the idea.

Many will, no doubt, remember the scheme to "Air-condition" the accomodation and how it wasn't too bad at all for such a "Heath Robinsin" effort.

The fact the Sterne compressor, asigned the a/c duty, could provide such a good effort was amazing as the load on them, especially in the Red Sea, was incredible. I do seem to recall it (the compressor), was constantly, (because of the sea and ambient temperatures), fully-loaded.

Does anyone have any idea who came-up with the idea? Salaams, Phil
Might justa been that there "Eath Robinsin" fella, good at that sorta thing 'e woz.
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  #3  
Old 6th August 2012, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nick olass View Post
Might justa been that there "Eath Robinsin" fella, good at that sorta thing 'e woz.
Slightly related, but on first trip on SS Maihar in 1958, (no air cond) domestic fridge operated om Methyl Chloride (?). Cargo fridges on SS Manipur was ammonia, just magic for curing a hangover!
I always used to wonder at the quick reaction of anyone when smelling salts was shoved under their nose, now I know why!
Got a real blast once on her when a lead charging pipe from a ammonia storage bottle burst a few inches from my face, I think it is due to pocket hercules Hector QM I was saved when he grabbed me and literally held me over the side in the air to get my breath back, he had been alerted in his cabin in the alleyway where the bottles were stored when he was choking with the fumes from the burst pipe.
happy days
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  #4  
Old 6th August 2012, 21:17
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Wet burlap in front of the porthole worked wonders for us peons without air-conditioning,it also felt good held in-front of a fan.
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  #5  
Old 6th August 2012, 21:26
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That was a cunning idea with the brine. Hope the pipes survived

Yes, recollect: cold shower; don't dry off; aim louvres at bunk; attempt to sleep.
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  #6  
Old 7th August 2012, 00:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthechill View Post
Having been involved with Industrial Refrigeration for the final twenty-odd years of my working life I was recalling t'other day, about the various 'fridge jobs I'd done. Inevitably I thought about the absolute brilliance of the thinking behind the pumping-cold-brine-through-the-steam-coils-of-the-Thermotak's, on "Maskeliya"-----and got to wondering, who came-up with the idea.

Many will, no doubt, remember the scheme to "Air-condition" the accomodation and how it wasn't too bad at all for such a "Heath Robinsin" effort.

The fact the Sterne compressor, asigned the a/c duty, could provide such a good effort was amazing as the load on them, especially in the Red Sea, was incredible. I do seem to recall it (the compressor), was constantly, (because of the sea and ambient temperatures), fully-loaded.

Does anyone have any idea who came-up with the idea? Salaams, Phil
I thought it was Pat Morris of Maipura days or may have been Allan Atack ( I will check with him )
The work was done in Calcutta as a 'side job " during regular work and it worked quite well . It was called :air cooling : as it was not air conditioning in the true sence .

Best job for the ammonia brine system was too chill the cans of Tennants ( on the headers ). Everyone on board knew where it was and how to use it .
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  #7  
Old 7th August 2012, 12:08
Philthechill Philthechill is offline  
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Thumbs up Ace feeling!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roger View Post
I thought it was Pat Morris of Maipura days or may have been Allan Atack ( I will check with him )
The work was done in Calcutta as a 'side job " during regular work and it worked quite well . It was called :air cooling : as it was not air conditioning in the true sence .

Best job for the ammonia brine system was too chill the cans of Tennants ( on the headers ). Everyone on board knew where it was and how to use it .
Derek! Wasn't it absolutely ace to go into the brine-room, straight from being "on-the-plates". Your ringing-wet-with-sweat boiler-suit became instantly chilled-down as you entered that 0C (and below), atmosphere---------then back down-below! We MUST have been incredibly fit to be able to withstand a "temperature jolt" (my invemtion!!!) of some 60C!!!!

Apropos a/c on ships.

Having been in Industrial Refrigeration I wonder just how big a 'fridge-plant some of these monster cruise-ships have!! To a/c such vast ships would take some seriously big compressors, (and the appropriate elctrical-power to drive them!!).

Obviously, because of the a/c load alone, they will have screw-compressors (and heading-toward the biggest machines too).

One of the biggest fridge-plats I ever dealt with was at Wall's Ice Cream, Cheltnemham. There was 120 tons of NH3 (ammonia) there with a combination of recip and screw compressors.

That system was the scene of one of my best-ever diagnostics------I was well-chuffed, (as were both their C/E and my Company!!!). Salaams, Phil

Last edited by Philthechill; 7th August 2012 at 20:02..
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  #8  
Old 7th August 2012, 16:50
Jeff Taylor Jeff Taylor is offline  
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Just as a frame of reference, QE2 has a 600 ton plant. She started out with only 300 tons, but during one of her many refits they doubled it.
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  #9  
Old 7th August 2012, 16:54
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I just Googled Cruise ship air conditioning compressors and while I got some hits it was only about the cabin fan coil units.

Ashore in large buildings circa 1970s-1980s we used centrifugal chillers. For small properties recip and screws were used but a simple way was the chillers.

An eighteen story hotel with 500 guest rooms plus all the usual restaurants and public meeting spaces was cooled with two 300 ton centrifugal chillers. Four pipe system, chilled water and hot water. Usually one chiller was enough but a few times in extreme 100+ degrees F weather it took both of them.

We had a 600 ton cooling tower and there was a cooling water loop for all the water cooled ice makers in the building. One on each guest floor plus the several monster units in food service areas. That 100+ daily period after two days we ran out of cooling tower.

We secured all the ice makers and parked a refrigerated semi truck full of bagged ice on the loading dock and staff filled the ice makers. As I told the GM "we can buy ice but not air conditioning."

Greg Hayden
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  #10  
Old 7th August 2012, 17:04
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Did anyone ever sail with a steam jet air conditioning system.

2G
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  #11  
Old 7th August 2012, 19:00
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is online now  
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Originally Posted by twogrumpy View Post
Did anyone ever sail with a steam jet air conditioning system.

2G
I had the pleasure of that on the "Shoush" worked great until the float fell off the condenser level. the first indication of which was either an earth fault or a frantic phone call from the bridge stating the accomodation was like a sauna! :-) they eventually removed the steam jet as it cost a fortune in extra bunkers to run!
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  #12  
Old 7th August 2012, 19:58
Jeff Taylor Jeff Taylor is offline  
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Most of the older ships (including QE2) were electrically driven centrifugals powering a 2 pipe system with steam terminal reheats for cabin temp control. I was always curious on a steamship why you'd have electric drive (in those days in NY office buildings we generally used Con Ed steam to drive turbines), but there you have it.
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  #13  
Old 17th August 2012, 00:49
Leratty Leratty is offline  
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Cooling towers, is that disease you can catch from them still around it killed quite a No of people some years ago around the world?
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  #14  
Old 17th August 2012, 12:29
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Originally Posted by Leratty View Post
Cooling towers, is that disease you can catch from them still around it killed quite a No of people some years ago around the world?
That would be Legionella, otherwise known as Legionaires Disease.
There have been a couple of major outbreaks in the UK very recently. One in Edinburgh, resulting in 3 deaths and more than one hundred people being treated in hospital.
The second outbreak, only 3 weeks ago was in Stoke on Trent and resulted in 6 people being treated in hospital.
Pat
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  #15  
Old 17th August 2012, 12:59
Leratty Leratty is offline  
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Thanks for that Pat, I wonder in this part of the world where health & building is of little concern to the authorities how many outbreaks there have been? Doubt, without being cynical, they would be reported anyway. Shopping centres here are bigger than any I have seen elsewhere in the world. Ironically the locals, whole families, spend their time in them to keep cool, especially during this time of the year, today 36c with 95% humidity. Can be interesting sitting & watching them. We need to keep our house a/c on 24/7 otherwise everything goes mouldy on saying that though the +'s out way the -'s. Happy day, Richard
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  #16  
Old 17th August 2012, 13:21
alan ward alan ward is offline  
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Re Legionella,Staffordshires claim to fame.Back in the 80`s there was one of the worst outbreaks at Stafford General Hospital that killed several patients and infected many others.That originated in the cooling towers and the latest outbreak in North Staffs University Hospital has killed 2 so far.What is do with our local Health trust,I have used both of these hopsitals and found them to be truly wonderful in EVERY possible situation,childbirth,terminal care,death and accidental injury.However their record in hygiene is appalling Legionella,Necrosis,Difficile and enteritis are all ever present.It genuinely has me worried.
I snapped my achiiles tendon a couple of years ago and on one of my many visits to the fracture clinic I noticed the state of a trolley entering the room.It was truly awful,it clearly hadn`t been cleaned for too long and there were stickers visible in many places.My wife said`If you get checked in here I`m bringing our own cleaning gear in`
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  #17  
Old 17th August 2012, 20:43
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I only once recall piloting a tanker loaded with ammonia and being presented with a breathing apparatus- I thought, Blimey, better stay out of trouble with this one!
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  #18  
Old 17th August 2012, 22:32
Nick Jones Nick Jones is offline  
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One of the advantages of having ammonia fridge systems on the Matra, was having a room in the fridge flat for all the valves that always stank of ammonia. this is where we kept our beer while in Jeddah, even had lines painted on the floor for Chief engr,, sec. engr.etc. No customs officer would go near there.
Cheers,
Nick Jones.
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  #19  
Old 17th August 2012, 23:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthechill View Post
Derek! Wasn't it absolutely ace to go into the brine-room, straight from being "on-the-plates". Your ringing-wet-with-sweat boiler-suit became instantly chilled-down as you entered that 0C (and below), atmosphere---------then back down-below! We MUST have been incredibly fit to be able to withstand a "temperature jolt" (my invemtion!!!) of some 60C!!!!

Apropos a/c on ships.

Having been in Industrial Refrigeration I wonder just how big a 'fridge-plant some of these monster cruise-ships have!! To a/c such vast ships would take some seriously big compressors, (and the appropriate elctrical-power to drive them!!).

Obviously, because of the a/c load alone, they will have screw-compressors (and heading-toward the biggest machines too).

One of the biggest fridge-plats I ever dealt with was at Wall's Ice Cream, Cheltnemham. There was 120 tons of NH3 (ammonia) there with a combination of recip and screw compressors.

That system was the scene of one of my best-ever diagnostics------I was well-chuffed, (as were both their C/E and my Company!!!). Salaams, Phil
As well as being with Brocks my brother Cameron was also a fridge engineer with Salvesons plant at Dalcross ( Inverness ) for a number of years .
All Ammonia brine with a circulating system used for the "block freezing units for herring " Fish for the most part came from Ullapool .
The system was to pour the herring into the freezer box,s ; top off with water and then freeze ; once frozen into a block the side plates were opened ( hydraulic as I remember ) and the released blocks of solid fish were stored in the huge storage area .
Storage are was about the size of a football field with high roof . All at minus 25 C .
The place was filled with all sorts of stuff including ; blocks of fish ; Ladies fur coats . Stags stacked to the roof and Prawns also in blocks of water .
There was from time to time an "incidental catch " of Dublin Bay Prawns . Happy days !

I have renamed my brother as " Cammy the Chill "



Cheers Derek
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  #20  
Old 18th August 2012, 16:36
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Salvesens had a calamity some years ago when one of their cold stores full of peas thawed out inadvertently, lost a lot of money with that episode, your brother may recall that
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  #21  
Old 18th August 2012, 19:01
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Originally Posted by japottinger View Post
Salvesens had a calamity some years ago when one of their cold stores full of peas thawed out inadvertently, lost a lot of money with that episode, your brother may recall that
I will ask him tomorrow . I dont recollect any such incident at the Inverness plant .
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