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  #251  
Old 26th November 2007, 09:28
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U-boat books ....

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Originally Posted by Brent Chambers View Post
Barnsey, better still--Kenneth Wynn, the author of "U-boat ops etc", works at Rare Books, 6 High St, Auckland Central. He "just happened to have" both volumes there at the time. cheers, Brent
Hi Brent,

Just followed up on this lot you mention and am a bit mystified as you say ....

better still--Kenneth Wynn, the author of "U-boat ops etc", works at Rare Books ..............does he own it or something???

I had a look at their website again last night and found 4 books I wanted at a reasonable price too .... reserved them spent 3 phone calls only to find out they had not updated their catologue and none were in stock ... !!!

They apologised but what the hell. If you run a website you would think you would keep it up to date???

RSVP

Barnsey
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  #252  
Old 10th December 2007, 23:56
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If you wish to know anything about the OHIO there is a chap in Queensland who sailed on her during Operation Pedestal.His name is John Mears he has written a book on the subject.I think you might find that the Ohio was built in the UK for Texaco and at the start of hostilities was commandeered for service.She was a little bigger than a T2.If you get in touch with the Queensland branch of the Vindicatrix Assoc they would put you in touch with him.
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  #253  
Old 11th December 2007, 23:53
stan mayes stan mayes is offline  
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OHIO
From the book ' The Worlds Merchant Fleets 1939 '.
OHIO built 1939 by Sun Shipbuilding Co - Chester Penn. USA for The Texas Company later restyled Texaco.. Gross tonnage 9265,all other dimensions also in book,plus a report on her epic voyage..
In another book,OHIO was sailing for some time under a US flag and American crew..In 1942 she arrived in the Clyde fully loaded and was handed over to the MOWT..Then placed under the management of Eagle Oil Co and manned by British Merchant seamen...the rest is recorded as courage and tenacity beyond endurance..
Stan.
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  #254  
Old 22nd December 2007, 11:40
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I echo that statement Stan. I have sailed with two men from that convoy, Dave Lochhead who was Master of Amokura down here in NZ. We were good friends as he was an Old Worcester which bond we shared and he also lived not far away from us when we were in Picton. Dave was an apprentice on the "Rochester Castle" which also made it into Malta with Ohio. John Gregson was on the "Deucalion" which did not make it, being one of the ships sunk on the way. As the ship sank he rescued a gunner, who was trapped down aft. For this he received the Albert Medal which is know recognised as the George Cross. John finished up as Pilot at Taurunga when he moved to NZ and then finally rejoined Union Company. We sailed on Amokura, Kuaka and Kotuku. He is a gentlemen of the finest order. After "Deucalion" was sunk he swam, towing the gunner to HMS Braham which was one of the three ships which "Towed" the Ohio in. He actually went aboard "Ohio" ... looking to raid the stores for food, there were lots of survivors aboard Braham of course.
dave Lochheads "Roc hester Castle was also a survivor ... she had a long career after the war too.

I now have increased my Battle of the Atlantic books with some marvellous additions. "U-Boats under the Swastika" by Jak Mallham who's father was an engineer and was killed in U-boats. Jak has become a leading authoritarian on U-boats, this is the second of his books I have .. this edition published in 2000 has been brought right up to date. A pamphlet type booklet published in 1943 by HMSO called "Coastal Command" with some great pics and excellent writing. Alongside that is another HMSO pamphlet booklet "The Battle of the Atlantic" published in 1946 and chronologically relates the events. I can recommend anyone with a deep interest in The Battle of the Atlantic to get these books if you can for your reference and collection.

The rational details of the type XXI Electro Boats I am finding are amazing ... full of faults and compromises thank goodness although championed as a near thing solution for Doenitz by many authors. This also goes for the Schnorkel, far from a success it was reviled by most of the U-boat crews. The Torpedo crisis we discussed earlier on in this thread it turns out continued throughout the war... again thank goodness. The old torpedoes still had faults other than the contact and magnetic detonators which were not corrected even at the end. The new types which came into production failed 10:1 also the Allies produced simple counter measures for them as well which didnt help.

I now have three books awaiting me to read them. I must make a point that I now read only the factual analysis books published from appx 1980 onwards ..... apart from Hesslers book and the official HMSO publications which were put out immedeately after the war which sit alongside Hessler and are silent on Enigma and the Ultra intelligence, nice contrasts...... absorbing.

Barnsey
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  #255  
Old 22nd December 2007, 15:41
K urgess K urgess is offline
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I finished Rohwer's "Critical Convoy Battles" about a month ago and I'm now about halfway through Woodman's "Real Cruel Sea".
I find Rohwer's conclusions in the main book interesting when compared to his appendix added after he found out about "Ultra". So there is some value in getting an idea of thinking before and after the secrets were revealed
I can imagine that the coincidence of the attacks on SC122 and HX229 in March 1943 and the loss of "Ultra" intelligence at the same time could lead to some speculation as to the sacrifice of ships for the greater good.
The other one you want, Barnsey, is the HMSO publication "Merchant Men at War".
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  #256  
Old 23rd December 2007, 00:49
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Thanks Fubar .... I did not think overly much of Woodman's "Real Cruel Sea". Its a long list of ships being attacked basically ... no in depth analysis of the true situation.

The before and after aspect is good as you say. Guinter Hesslers compilation for the RN is an excellent example .... pricey book ...IF you can find one, theres one at Empire books in Perth Australia at Aus $390 odd.

I saw that there is the pamphlet book "Merchant Men at War" Fubar and have my eye open for it ... that will match them up nicely.

Have a good one if I dont catch you before...

David
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  #257  
Old 23rd December 2007, 10:47
K urgess K urgess is offline
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I must admit your comment re "The Real Cruel Sea" is valid. Against that I would say that it was never meant to be a deep analysis of the Battle of the Atlantic but more a tribute to those that went down to the sea in ships.
Could get a Hessler for around 100 from Abebooks. I must look out for an affordable copy. It would be interesting to read Doenitz' son-in-law's account.

You too, David. Have a good one

Kris
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  #258  
Old 24th December 2007, 01:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi Sahib View Post
I must admit your comment re "The Real Cruel Sea" is valid. Against that I would say that it was never meant to be a deep analysis of the Battle of the Atlantic but more a tribute to those that went down to the sea in ships.
Could get a Hessler for around 100 from Abebooks. I must look out for an affordable copy. It would be interesting to read Doenitz' son-in-law's account.

You too, David. Have a good one

Kris

Kris,

You are quite correct in your description of "The Real Cruel Sea" and deserve such a book they do. From that point of view its most apt.

The Hessler "Book" is in fact a series of chronological documents commissioned by the Royal Navy from the German U-boat documents. The works were never meant for release. They are now all in the book form plus 5 charts in a strong slip cover.

It was written without any knowledge of the fact that an Enigma machine and its rotors had not only been captured by defeated by some extraordinary brains. Ultra was the code for the information derived from decrypts which was also aided by the other BRAIN Roger Wynn in the Western Approaches headquarters ... he seemed to have a sixth sense and could derive the thinking of Doenitz crew and the location and direction of the u-boats. Admiral Max Horton had a row with him which culminated in a famous challenge. Wynn sat him down with all the information Wynn got daily anmd told him to tell him what he arrived at from it all. Horton from that day trusted Wynn explicitly and never ever challenged him again...

Anyway Hesslers book is a must have if you want to have a complete insight into The Battle .... along with Tarrants and Clay Blairs two books, Vol 1 The Hunters and Vol 2 The Hunted.

Try Empire books in Perth Australia ... he has two copies and I reccommend him..... unfortunately the books are rare now and thats the price you pay ... Ive had mine a year and its gone from NZ$220 to A$390

have a good Xmas and a great New Year
David
aka Barnsey
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  #259  
Old 29th February 2008, 23:07
Bernard McIver Bernard McIver is offline  
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I am currently reading "Merchantmen at War" which was prepared for the Ministry of War Transport by the Ministry of Information and published by His Majesty's Stationery Office. One would expect this to be accurate. However on page 40 the following appears:-

"As early as September 30th, 1939, a British ship's Master and chief engineer (of the s.s. Clement) found themselves, their ship having been sunk off the Brazilian coast by the pocket battleship Admiral Scheer, aboard the German warship. They were among the first to be captured by raiders. Those raiders have included the Graf Spee and Scharnhorst, besides vessels masquuerading as neutrals."

How could they get it so wrong? The Admiral Scheer did not operate before 1940. Perhaps the Ministry should be renamed Ministry of Misinformation.
Bernard
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  #260  
Old 29th February 2008, 23:33
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Merchantmen at War is a wartime publication published in 1944.
It's propaganda.
A little "bending" of the facts is to be expected.
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  #261  
Old 1st March 2008, 07:53
Bernard McIver Bernard McIver is offline  
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Kris,

I don't disagree with your reasoning on wartime propaganda. I just think that it would have been just as useful to mention that s.s. Clement was the first ship sunk by Graf Spee. I still believe they got it wrong.
Bernard
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  #262  
Old 1st March 2008, 09:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Split View Post
I sailed as third and second mate on a German built, requisitioned "Empire" ship. What a heap of old junk that was!

Split
My experience was happier. I joined the ex Kattenturm in 47. A credit to the Hamburg workers who built her in 44, I presume between visits to the air raid shelters. A wee bit too modern for us British seamen, they had to remove the push button steering to reduce the zig zags.
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  #263  
Old 1st March 2008, 09:37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi Sahib View Post
Merchacorntmen at War is a wartime publication published in 1944.
It's propaganda.
A little "bending" of the facts is to be expected.
No information which could be considered helpful to the enemy could be included in wartime publications.
Tell me Kris, in what manner is this statement made in 1944 a "bending" of the facts.
"Those raiders have included the Graf Spee and Scharnhorst"
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  #264  
Old 1st March 2008, 09:59
ddraigmor ddraigmor is offline
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I hope this does not detract from the thread but none of you have brought in some pretty decisive factors regarding why not who - the Battle of The Atlantic was won.

Britain pushed into service 'Flower' Class corvettes - which despite their size and limitations, were a Godsend to the convoys. We also introduced ASDIC and Radar, and equipped A/S aircraft with the Leigh light. None of these crucial factors were of American origin. It was a small number of 'Flower' class corvettes given to the US under lend-lease that allowed them to hone their A/S skills as well. Same goes for the convoy system - the US refused to realise its potential until after 'Operation Drum Beat' when shipping off the US coast - not convoyed - suffered massive losses as a result of this short sightedness.

The co-ordination of the convoys was under the control of Western Approaches Command. Originally based in Plymouth, it moved to Liverpool, the largest and most central west coast port in 1941. There it became a vast organisation, responsible for the day-to-day direction of Britain's North Atlantic campaign.

Bletchley Park and the code breakers of the German 'Enigma' machine also helped more than any of you have stated. Without that intelligence - again, captured by the Royal Navy and worked on ceaslessly by cryptographers. However, the capture of a German Enigma coding machine aboard U-110, in early May 1941, was the turning point. This enabled British code-breakers to fully penetrate signals between patrolling German U-boats and German Navy HQ. At the same time the system of integrated escort groups made its debut.

The real turning point of the Battle of the Atlantic came between February and May 1943 when the rate of production of merchant vessels coming out of British and American yards overtook the rate at which U-boats were sinking Allied ships at sea and never afterwards fell below it. The Canadians produced a lot of these and also were a part of the escort and convoy system as well. It was not just Liberty and T2's that played a part but the 'Forts' and the 'Parks' as well.

By 1943 the Germans had 240 U-boats in service, 50 of them at sea at any one time. In February 1943, 48 Allied merchant ships were sunk for the loss of 22 U-boats.

In March, 105 merchant ships were lost for the destruction of 16 U-boats.

But by April there were only 25 merchant ships lost for the destruction of 16 U-boats - clearly an unacceptable margin for the Kriegsmarine.

In May, 46 U-boats were sunk and the Germans were forced to throw in the towel, withdrawing from the Atlantic. Following this admission of defeat their U-boat arm, understandably, lost its vigour, although patrols continued until the end of the war.

Whilst it is often accorded - by the Americans and American influenced historians - that the Battle of the Atlantic would not have been won without the replacement shipping built in the US, the design for the Liberty was a British one - it was based on the 'Dorrington Court'. We also never got the US production out of the good of the US's heart - we paid for them. I believe we have only just recently cleared the financial debt.....

The Battle was a bloody one for all sides - but the influence of the British in what was a battle for their own survival is often eclipsed by the US entry into the war at sea itself.

Jonty

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  #265  
Old 1st March 2008, 10:02
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Who Contributed The Most ?

I noted these words many years ago. I still think they were true

Blood - the Soviets
Resources - the Americans
Courage - the Brits.

also -
"Britain provided something more valuable than courage, grim resolve to endure any hardship, to pay any price, to finally achieve victory on terms that there could be no shame in."

At the risk of getting the rattle thown out of the pram, I will again express my disapointment that on this excellent site there exists no discussion forum for the long years of sea war. Dredgers etc are catered for but not Forts/Empires/Liberties etc. Strange but fact.
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  #266  
Old 1st March 2008, 10:07
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Hi Bernard,

The Graf Spee in the South Atlantic and the Deutschland in the North atlantic were both loose at that time according to PSL's book "British Merchant Vessels lost at sea 1939 - 1945".You are quite right the Spee did sink the Clement.

I have a companion book to the one you are reading ... there are quite a few from the ministry of misinformation ...."Coastal Command" 1943 and "Battle of the Atlantic" 1946 ... the former has some pics I had not seen before.

Whilst they do not have everything accurate ... how could they as so much was classified .... they none the less throw some light on things and build the fascinating story.

As for the steering of ships and U-boats by buttons ... that seems to have been a German way of providing a cheap and simple way of steering rather than anything Hi-Tech. There was a German Coaster .. the "Heinrich Schulte" which tied up to the buoys off Empire Paper Mills wharf with a load of paper pulp in the late 50's while I was on Worcester ... new with a nice streamlined bridge and we manged to wangle a boat visit to her .... cigarettes being the main attraction!! however we did look her over too .... we too were amazed at the steering buttons ....

Deutschland had its named changed later to Lutzow because Hitler did not want any ship with that name sunk ... bad for moral!!

The Blucher was sunk in the invasion of Norway .. a fascinating story in itself ....probably the one and only success stories of the old Napolionic style shore fortresses.

Barnsey
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  #267  
Old 1st March 2008, 12:54
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Maybe not a bending of the facts but a mistake by the copy writer when it was being published.
As long as the vessel belonged to the enemy it didn't matter at that time about the truth. He wouldn't have known anyway.
On page 99 there's a picture of -
"THE EYE OF THE FRIEND". In this photograph, taken from an American Liberator, three enemy submarines cut flurries of spray as they turn to avoid the bombs of Coastal Command aircraft. All were destroyed."
I'm still trying to find this incident. Anyone got any pointers?
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  #268  
Old 2nd March 2008, 05:57
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Meanwhile, in Britain's darkest hours........

My father talked very little about his war experience... he spent it in the British flag Vacuum Oil Coy tankers as mate. The ships were in fact owned by Oriental Tankers Hong Kong but were all US owned.

He was in the Tahchee, Charles F Meyer and the John A Brown and one of the only experiences he talked about concerned the Tahchee. He had joined her in Havre in 11/10/37 and was in her continously until he left her in Newport, Mon. on New Years Eve, 1940 ( that's from his discharge book... the info re Convoy numbers is from warsailors.com).

Anyway it seems that for the entire time she was loading fuel oil out of Curacao for Le Havre with only one call in the UK (Soton) in that time.

So she left Southampton in ballast for Curacao on 23 April 1940.. loaded and joined convoy HX 51 in Bermuda in mid June. Shortly thereafter with the fall of France all the ships bound for France ( Tahchee and 5 other tankers) were all sent back to Bermuda where they sat while a decision was made re their future. In Tachee's case ( American owned British flag French navy cargo) the decision was to send her back to Curacao and discharge the cargo. Arrived there ... they had the hoses on ready to discharge... when there was another fuss... who was going to pay the freight...

So once that was all sorted out she steamed back to Halifax...still with the same cargo... meant to join SC6 but didn't, eventually sailed with HX 73 but couldn't maintain speed as the bottom was that foul.... so sent to Bermuda to wait for a slow convoy.

Can't find a record of which convoy but think it may have been SC16 as she finally arrived in Newport, Mon. about 31/12/40.

A few days over 8 months to get one cargo across the Atlantic.....

He reckoned he should have been given Bermudian residency.....

Last edited by Cisco; 2nd March 2008 at 05:59.. Reason: Meyer not Myer
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  #269  
Old 2nd March 2008, 13:28
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Jonty writes in post 264, that in May 1943, "the Germans were forced to throw in the towel, withdrawing from the Atlantic".
In Aug.2003, I wrote a letter to Sea Breezes in which I said, "The myth that Admiral Doenitz withdrew his U.Boats from the Atlantic after Mar.1943, persists. Following the recent commemoration service in Liverpool (May3rd 2003), the reportage conveyed this same totally incorrect impression...........During the 25 months from Mar.1943 to the end of the war in May 1945 some 500 U.Boats were sunk in action. In the 12 months of 1944 no fewer than 264 U.Boats met their end mostly in Atlantic waters."
Presumably, all U.Boats which went to sea at that time were not all sunk, which would seem to indicate that there were still an awful lot of them still around.
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  #270  
Old 2nd March 2008, 21:29
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Quote:
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To James MacDonald ..The War Bonus did not end on VE Day - we were still at war with Japan..
And as you know Stan, Churchill had been voted out of office by the time the war ended, so had no say on war bonus or anything else.
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  #271  
Old 2nd March 2008, 22:04
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Misinformation

British wartime publications have been referred to in this thread, rightly or wrongly, as propaganda and misinformation. However Britain did possess a department which specialised in misinformation etc to the enemy. i.e. During a period of the war U-boat wireless telegraphists taking down the details of the latest home football results were unaware that the transmitter they were tuned to was British. The sport details were correct, however the remainder of the broadcast was cleverly arranged to lower U-boat crew morale. Bombing of German towns, food shortages, retreats on all fronts etc. Some disaffected U-boat POWs helped to use the correct U-boat jargon. Even after the ruse was discovered crews were wary of British skullduggery. Britain was well aware that U-boat crew morale was quickly deteriorating as the "happy days" were well past, British "black propaganda" helped to speed this up. The same powerful transmitter was skillfully used during during Allied bombing raids to lower the morale of the civilian population.
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  #272  
Old 3rd March 2008, 08:59
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Reply to Hugh and the U-boat retreat from the Atlantic May 1943

Hugh,

The retreat you mention was real enough. It was not a full retreat in the true sense of the word but a decisive withdrawal its was.

I quote fron Gunter Hesslers book "The U-boat war in the Atlantic 1939- 1945" commisioned by the Royal Navy after the war and is taken from the official German War Diaries.

332. There had been several crisis in the course of the U-boat campaign, such as the failure at the time of the Norwegian operations, and the sudden high losses in March and December, 1941. Investigation had shown that these setbacks were usually due to some combination of unfavourable circumstances rather than to any marked improvement in enemy A/S measures. But now, in May 1943 things were very different for our failure in a whole series of convoy battles had shown beyond doubt that the offensive power of the U-boat was incapable of dealing with the defence.
This situation was due firstly to outstanding developements in enemy radar and secondly to effective co-operation between surface escorts, support groups and carrier borne aircraft ..... the Allies huge construction program for escort carriers and vessels,and aircraft had not yet reached its peak. On the other hand there was no increase in the destructive power of the U-boat. ..... now, the staggering realisation came upon us that we could no longer pursue this offensive in its existing form. Indeed the latest experiences had shown that the striking power of the U-boat threatened to collapse in every theatre of the war.

333.
Since the beginning of May our losses in the North Atlantic had risen steeply. By the 22nd we had already lost 31 boats ( in May 1943 38 U-boats were lost for 42 ships sunk) .........Hitherto convoy operations had taken place in the North Atlantic .... future operations would have to be confined to areas less threatened from the air. On 24th May those U-boats with sufficient fuel were moved southwest of the Azores. The boats with insufficient fuel remained on the North Atlantic Convoy routes with the thankless task of deceiving the enemy (by their merest presence) as to the date of our abandonment of North Atlantic convoy operations.

F.O. U-boats stated in his War Diary ... " This decision denotes a temporary abandonment of the fundamental principles which have so far governed the U-boat campiagn .......... that as soon as our boats have been equipped with new weapons the battle in the North Atlantic - the decisive area - will be resumed."

The latter remarks referred to the type XXI and XXIII U-boats which really never came along.

So Hugh, whilst the U-boats were still out there the main thrust really was removed from the North Atlantic.

As I have remarked elsewhere in this thread the Battle in the North Atalntic was turned in the OCT -DEC of 1942 ... this was the first time in the war when Doenitz had over 100 U-boats at sea yet the sinkings had fallen to less than 1 ship per U-boat per month.... sure there were a couple of months with heavy loss of ships on one or two convoys but the losses of U-boats were severe and the returns for the men, effort and materials unsustainable.

Barnsey
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  #273  
Old 3rd March 2008, 09:43
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Jonty,

Missed your entry to our fantastic thread ..... You are more or less correct in all you say but if I may suggest it has a definite, and deserved anti USA tinge to it. I dont know if you can lay your hands on any of the books I have illustrated above but if you can do so .... they have the "OIL" on the subject.

For your part, I am just finishing a book by Dan van der Vat yet another good historian on the subject ... "The Atlantic Campaign, the greatest struggle at sea 1939 -1945". He and I are definitely no fans of Admiral King of the US Navy the real villan of the battle and I reckon the single greatest factor in the yanks attitude to the battle ... in fact it was HIS attitude that causes such remarks as you have made above. But boy, in general the statement that "How the Yanks think they won the war" is pretty right. Clay Blair is pretty even handed in his two volumes.....the only Yank I would read I might add.

I have to say, from my limited experience that I think the Liberties were superior to the Forts and Parks. They were limited in that they were geared to the British hidebound way of building ships with rivets and a century of traditional methods. Whilst the Liberty design relied heavily on the Forts and Parks design everything in the way they were built and fitted out was very different, welding for a start. Yup, before anyone mentions it there were some that cracked but for the most part they were immensly strong ... just read one account of a P&O Liberty which bounced along the North Sea channels so hard she was like a concertina underwater yet the shaft remained true. The master reckoned that a rivetted ship would have sprung the lot and been aground.

True Britain paid for all the goods but it was the manufacture of them which was overwhelming as mentioned by Hessler in my post above.

Contrary to your statement re the breaking of the Enigma code. It was not all British work, definitely it was the Poles who did all the groundwork and set everything along the road that the Brits and eventually the Americans achieved the success. Breaking the Enigma code was but a part of the sucess that was "Ultra". Wynn was the brains behind the interpolation of the information. Without him it would not have been nearly so good. The tale of his facing down of Admiral Max Horton proves it. A convoy had a bad time and Horton was critical at the de brief of the information received. Wynn calmly lay down a silken challenge to Horton. If you could give me 30 minutes of your time in which to assimulate the information I had and give me your decision that would be good. Horton sat down with the huge file and near the end of the 30 mins Wynn quietly said "The Command requires your decision in 3 minutes time sir" .... Horton shoved the bewildering mass of information to one side and from that moment the two had the utmost faith in each other. When the 4th wheel was added to the Enigma machines effectively blocking all enigma code breaking it was Wynn's intuition and interpolation which kept the whole defense going..... without Enigma naval code.

Fascinating ... welcome to the thread Jonty and thanks.

barnsey
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  #274  
Old 3rd March 2008, 10:54
Allan Wareing Allan Wareing is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldbosun View Post
The Americans respected their seamen and took care of them however they could while British sailors were off pay as soon as they were torpedoed.

Split

I too thought that was true for many years Split, but from a book that I have it appears that is not to be the case.

In "Survivors" 'British Merchant Seamen in the Second World War' by BH & R Bennet. Hambleton Press 1999, it states in the chapter "Safe at Last"
".............................it is not correct to suppose that survivors received no payment for the time they spent in lifeboats or awaiting repatriation. In December 1939 the Ministry of Shipping accepted a proposal from the shipowners that the pay of survivors should continue for one month after the loss of a ship or until they returned to the United Kingdom, whichever was the longer."

It goes on to state that there was a scale of recompense according to rank or rating for loss of clothing, carpenters tools, navigation aids such as a sextant etc.

For instance 100 pounds for a Captain and 50 pounds for ticketed officers, eventually increased to 150 and 100 pounds respectively with 90 pounds for a carpenter, 25 and 20 for AB's, Firemen, and boys.

I did sail soon after the war was finished with many men who had been torpedoed and survived time in lifeboats but I don't recollect the subject of pay ever coming up. As a matter of fact, in retrospect my recollections are that most men were quite reticent in talking of their wartime experiences and this at a time when it was all fresh in everyone's mind.
I did sail with a man that was taken prisoner early in the war and spent many years a prisoner of the Germans. I never did think to ask him if he was on pay all that time as would be an armed forces serviceman.
Maybe somebody here will know the answer.........Peter
Hi oldbosun, sorry for this tardy response - only just stumbled across the post.
I spent four and a half years in German POW camps after being sunk in 1940.
My 'War Bonus' was stopped on the day of sinking and thus I was on half pay until arriving home in 1945. I remember being a bit peeved about this at the time. Regards Allan.
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Old 3rd March 2008, 19:01
stan mayes stan mayes is offline  
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I dispute the amount of recompense paid for loss of clothing etc which split has quoted from a book..
I was in VIKING STAR when she was sunk on 25th August 1942 by U 130.
Captain Mills and seven crew were killed..
My wages as AB were 10.12s and 6d per month plus 12 per month War Risk Money.
My pay was stopped from day of sinking until I arrived home [ nearly two months later] and reported myself alive at Tilbury Shipping Office..
My pay from Blue Star Line was backdated and paid but the Government paid War Risk Money was not paid..that ended day of sinking.
Also I received 10 for loss of effects..A Carpenter and Bosun received 12 .10s.
Regards
Stan.
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