Warship, channel 4 10/04/17 - Ships Nostalgia
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Warship, channel 4 10/04/17

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  #1  
Old 10th April 2017, 22:08
Dieselfitter Dieselfitter is offline  
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Warship, channel 4 10/04/17

Did anyone else see this program, essentially a documentary following HMS Ocean.
A few glimpses of a grey funnel line engine room were quite enlightening, particularly the two v12 main engines. Apparently a cylinder head failed, reported as a jammed exhaust valve, and it took them 35 hours to remove and repair the cylinder head, all that time being reduced to running on one engine.
Can anyone tell me why the Navy, in its infinite wisdom, does not see fit to carry at least one spare, complete head?
35 hours to change an exhaust valve?

Doesn't seem terribly efficient......
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  #2  
Old 10th April 2017, 22:15
Irvingman Irvingman is offline  
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I thought that the commentator suggested they did carry a spare head but for some unexplained reason it wasn't used, perhaps it wasn't built up. They also suggested that only one or two staff on board had ever changed a head before! One of the staff also said that changing a head was one of the biggest jobs that they would do on board!
I don't understand how it took so long and would be interested to hear from anyone with RN experience or background who can shed any light.
John
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  #3  
Old 11th April 2017, 00:08
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dieselfitter View Post
Did anyone else see this program, essentially a documentary following HMS Ocean.
A few glimpses of a grey funnel line engine room were quite enlightening, particularly the two v12 main engines. Apparently a cylinder head failed, reported as a jammed exhaust valve, and it took them 35 hours to remove and repair the cylinder head, all that time being reduced to running on one engine.
Can anyone tell me why the Navy, in its infinite wisdom, does not see fit to carry at least one spare, complete head?
35 hours to change an exhaust valve?

Doesn't seem terribly efficient......
I think that they stated that they had a spare head but it needed assembling.Ocean was built to mainly, commercial standards , hence the fairly 'large' machinery.
space for the main engines - also a large MCR.


LouisB.
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Old 11th April 2017, 03:58
slick slick is offline  
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All,
and the flying went on.....

yours aye,
slick
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  #5  
Old 11th April 2017, 07:20
Freo Freo is offline  
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She has Crossley Pielstick V12 diesel engines, and having run and repaired them for many years, I find it very strange it would have taken 35 hrs to remove, repair and refit a cylinder head. Once the exhaust pipe and rocker gear is removed, it doesn't take long to lift the head, as the head nut removal is via an hydraulic octopus, so they are all loosened at the same time, and just spun off.
They might have had a problem with the valve guide or valve seat, if they where damaged.
Don't the navy train their engine room staff, on the particular engine on which they are going to be operating and maintaining?

Just to further add, what is the point of having a spare cylinder head, if it isn't fully assembled, and ready for use.!
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Old 11th April 2017, 08:45
Irvingman Irvingman is offline  
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Removing the studs from the head using stillsons
John
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Old 11th April 2017, 08:47
slick slick is offline  
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All,
I thought halfway through the cylinder head change they could do with mythical Geordie Chief or Second to move things along...

Yours aye,

slick
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  #8  
Old 11th April 2017, 09:24
Irvingman Irvingman is offline  
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It was the complete lack of experience which surprised me!

...must go and dust off my ticket!!
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Old 11th April 2017, 16:25
stehogg stehogg is offline  
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Dont worry next time it happens they can phone Donald for a hand,sad to think thats whats between us and the rest of the world.
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Old 11th April 2017, 19:15
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Burntisland Ship Yard Burntisland Ship Yard is offline  
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Also, looks like the bandit machine and rubber insertion have been put on the back shelf !
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Old 11th April 2017, 20:44
MBarrow MBarrow is offline  
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Obviously following SOP written by someone who had never seen a Pielstick. No need to remove head to replace an exhaust valve, just pull valve and repair as necessary, 2 hours max for an Indian fitter.
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Old 12th April 2017, 09:27
Irvingman Irvingman is offline  
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And we laughed at the Russian fleet as they moved through the Channel a few weeks ago leaving thick trails of black smoke...........
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  #13  
Old 12th April 2017, 10:58
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
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It did look a bit inept, but changing a head in 2 hours does not make exciting TV. For every million viewers no more than half a dozen have ever been down an engine room. TV Producers motto is not to let the truth get in the way of a good show.

Wearing my chauvinist hat I must comment that the two lady stokers/mechanicians did their profession and gender no favours. I would have me doots employing them as scullery assistants.
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  #14  
Old 12th April 2017, 13:03
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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It was the complete lack of experience which surprised me!

...must go and dust off my ticket!!
The problem is well known in regards to Engineroom Staff both in the RN and the RFA, they simply cannot recruit people these days and most of the older experienced hands have left both Services leaving a gap in engineering experience.
Does anyone know if there are other vessels in the RN that have these crap engines fitted.
It does seem a long time for a Cylinder Head repair but not being onboard the reasons for the delay are unknown to me although I would be interested to know if there was another problem which caused the delay rather than for a dramatic effect.
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Old 12th April 2017, 15:21
173898 173898 is offline
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Originally Posted by Engine Serang View Post
It did look a bit inept, but changing a head in 2 hours does not make exciting TV. For every million viewers no more than half a dozen have ever been down an engine room. TV Producers motto is not to let the truth get in the way of a good show.

Wearing my chauvinist hat I must comment that the two lady stokers/mechanicians did their profession and gender no favours. I would have me doots employing them as scullery assistants.
Totally agree with your comments on the two lady stokers, and did you notice one of the stewards sporting dreadlocks? I couldn't believe the lack of professionalism and discipline displayed by the whole crew, although so far we haven't seen any real detail on how the air crews or Royal Marines perform. I watched a documentary a few months ago featuring one of the American carriers, and the standards displayed there were excellent.
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Old 12th April 2017, 15:59
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is offline  
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No spare cylinder head ! But they did have 6000 odd Nappies onboard ! Say's it all !
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Old 12th April 2017, 16:03
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The problem is well known in regards to Engineroom Staff both in the RN and the RFA, they simply cannot recruit people these days ...............
Is the difficulty in recruitment to do with pay and conditions, training standards, duration of sea time or is it simply part of the general trimming back of the services?

If it would have helped I know a couple of Pumpmen who could have put that cylinderhead under their arm and carried it up the couple of decks, saved all that time rigging chain blocks!

John
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Old 12th April 2017, 19:22
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Is the difficulty in recruitment to do with pay and conditions, training standards, duration of sea time or is it simply part of the general trimming back of the services?

If it would have helped I know a couple of Pumpmen who could have put that cylinderhead under their arm and carried it up the couple of decks, saved all that time rigging chain blocks!

John
In today's seagoing Engineering world which would you choose after finishing your training, 5 Weeks on, 5 Weeks off and good money working in the Offshore World with better conditions or a deployment to a War Zone for considerably less money.
Your Pumpmen were not called Popeye One and Two were they?
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Old 12th April 2017, 21:06
Dartskipper Dartskipper is offline  
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Was one of the young female staff in the engine room only 17 years old? One of the daily papers said that if War broke out, HMS Ocean would have to send her ashore as she was under age to go into combat. Did anybody pick up on this?
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Old 13th April 2017, 08:05
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Was one of the young female staff in the engine room only 17 years old? One of the daily papers said that if War broke out, HMS Ocean would have to send her ashore as she was under age to go into combat. Did anybody pick up on this?
Yes, that is quite correct Roy, although during the deployment she indicated she would reach the age of 18.
As you may be aware National Service started at 18 for that very reason, certainly some Pongos did their Basic Training and were shipped off to the Far East into Combat. aka "Virgin Soldiers"
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  #21  
Old 13th April 2017, 09:16
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They must have been two of the last, if not the last, Crossley Piels ever built.
I wonder whether the time was exaggerated, as a sort of "false flag", it would be strange to advertise ineptitude to the world at large. To me the whole of that section looked very contrived.
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Old 13th April 2017, 09:23
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There were enough personel in the engine room to completely man a container ship.
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  #23  
Old 13th April 2017, 09:37
Dieselfitter Dieselfitter is offline  
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Originally Posted by Irvingman View Post
Is the difficulty in recruitment to do with pay and conditions, training standards, duration of sea time or is it simply part of the general trimming back of the services?

If it would have helped I know a couple of Pumpmen who could have put that cylinderhead under their arm and carried it up the couple of decks, saved all that time rigging chain blocks!

John
Good point. Anyone remember the Royal Tournament, with the Naval Field Gun Race? I think possibly the naval tradition of "rigging things" has never gone away, hence lifting the cylinder head some seven decks!

Why not just work on the thing in the E.R!!!!
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  #24  
Old 13th April 2017, 10:30
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Yes but why let simplicity get in the way of good story.In the good old days there would have been ERA"s doing this but like everything else they have vanished in the "New navy" still it was a good spectator sport for the baby stokeress. Remember they still have to find bodies to man the two grey ghosts in Rosyth. Ben (might have to polish up my wheel spanner)
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  #25  
Old 13th April 2017, 18:58
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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ZI joined a new Booth line ship with an MAN 4 stroke straight out of the shipyard, never seen the engine before (same as QE2 generators at conversion)neither had the Chief, 3rd, or 4th.
Did they send us on a course on the engine and all the unfamiliar makes of equipment.
No we were Engineers, knew how things should work,had the manuals and drawings of systems, we got the ship home safely despite bad workmanship on the yards part.
On the return and maiden voyage had to change some exh valves deep sea. Chief said, 'do them on your watch in the morning'. So you just get on with it.
When we got into port had to change a head, no big deal. I had stripped enough 4 strokes during my apprenticeship, but not with heating rods for head studs.
All part of a days work.
TRAINING What's that?
Bottom plates 9 am sharp with your romper suit on, drunk or sober, thats your training.

No doubt they were all wearing Marigolds were they?

Heaven help us.

Last edited by sternchallis; 13th April 2017 at 19:33..
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