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Crankshaft failure

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  #51  
Old 13th December 2012, 16:35
Ian J. Huckin's Avatar
Ian J. Huckin Ian J. Huckin is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
The engine most probably has been sat on the new type of composite chock's which may have collapsed?. Was this vessel built at the same Yard as the vessel on it's Maiden Voyage which cracked up after loading in Brazil recently.
Are you refering to "Chockfast" or equivalent?...
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  #52  
Old 13th December 2012, 17:15
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Originally Posted by Ian J. Huckin View Post
Are you refering to "Chockfast" or equivalent?...
Yes Ian, although I have never used it as it was used after my time, looking at the photograph's it appear's that the engine was sat on some sort composite chock's. Any thought's on why the Owner should be liable for the damage when the root cause was before H/O? Unless the Standby Engineer's knew about it and agreed to accept this missed element in the CPP.
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  #53  
Old 13th December 2012, 18:47
Brendon Powell Brendon Powell is offline  
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Man B&w 48/60

Unfortunately for some fellow members of a MAN 48/60 User Group we set up some time ago it has been quite common over the past 10years.
Out of the 70 engines (all staitonary engines in Power Plants) that make up the group 7 failures have been reported (yes 10% - well done everybody with that one!!)
They have been mainly on the 18 cylinder (Vee) engines but a 12 cylinder (Vee) engine has also suffered a failure.
The total operating hours prior to these failures range from 4000 - 40,000 hours.
The crankshafts have been manufactured in 3 different factories in 3 different countries - Skoda, VSG, ALFING so can't blame it on bad manufacturing practices! Actually we can because investigations showed that every failure was a result of foreign particle inclusion during the initial manufacturing process.

Happy Days!!
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File Type: jpg Crank 1.jpg (56.9 KB, 78 views)
File Type: jpg Crank 2.jpg (57.7 KB, 76 views)
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  #54  
Old 13th December 2012, 19:17
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Thank's for the further info Brendon I am presuming they are folded web's judging by their profile. The problem with the vessel in South Africa as I read it was due to contamination in the Lub Oil tank which had not been de-contaminated and obviously not inspected, signed off in line with with the CPP.
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  #55  
Old 13th December 2012, 19:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendon Powell View Post
Unfortunately for some fellow members of a MAN 48/60 User Group we set up some time ago it has been quite common over the past 10years.
Actually we can because investigations showed that every failure was a result of foreign particle inclusion during the initial manufacturing process.

Happy Days!!
Brendon,
Our paths have crossed! If they were not confidential, I would say that you had "lifted" my photos! I know the group members and the affected plants..........See you around (Central America).
Rgds.
Dave R.
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  #56  
Old 13th December 2012, 19:32
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Satanic Mechanic Satanic Mechanic is offline  
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Chockfast is fantastic stuff, just blows fitted chocks out of the water in terms of load bearing and ease of fitting, but you do need to make sure it is installed correctly so it is normal to check the temperature mix and to have a end piece sample to assess air inclusion.

There has been an absolute raft of casting problems in the last few years almost entirely in my opinion due to Chinese yards going for quantity over quality and it has to be said outside the big two(and to a certain extent within the big two) quality can be a bit ropey to say the least. Given the choice for the moment I'd get my engines from Korea - no question.

Further to that there has also been a serious amount of casting failures coming out of Europe as well - these have been on a very particular engine - over capacity again and the use of sub standard subbys.
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  #57  
Old 13th December 2012, 19:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brendon Powell View Post
Unfortunately for some fellow members of a MAN 48/60 User Group we set up some time ago it has been quite common over the past 10years.
Out of the 70 engines (all staitonary engines in Power Plants) that make up the group 7 failures have been reported (yes 10% - well done everybody with that one!!)
They have been mainly on the 18 cylinder (Vee) engines but a 12 cylinder (Vee) engine has also suffered a failure.
The total operating hours prior to these failures range from 4000 - 40,000 hours.
The crankshafts have been manufactured in 3 different factories in 3 different countries - Skoda, VSG, ALFING so can't blame it on bad manufacturing practices! Actually we can because investigations showed that every failure was a result of foreign particle inclusion during the initial manufacturing process.

Happy Days!!

You still in Bermuda then?
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  #58  
Old 15th December 2012, 12:36
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averheijden averheijden is offline  
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Also the mv CUXHAVEN broke her Crankshaft
Wilton-Fijenoord Doxford

Regards
Alfons
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File Type: jpg Combi Cuxhaven.jpg (117.1 KB, 71 views)
File Type: jpg Strip CUXHAVEN.jpg (25.9 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by averheijden; 15th December 2012 at 12:38..
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  #59  
Old 6th December 2018, 14:00
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Doxford Crankshaft Failures

I was with Ellerman Lines 1960 to 1978. We had 6 ships with 75LB6's built about 1955/6 and I think there were only about 12 engines in total of this size built. Before I joined, all our crankshafts were changed because a design fault was discovered -was it a BP tanker that broke a crank? Even with the revised cranks we had to be very careful about alignment, especially as the ship aft of the thrust block was quite flexible on this class of vessel - as was the crank! I do remember that the "straight line" deflection at No 6 main crank was 43 thou and you only got really worried if the deflection gauge fell out!
Anyway, for my sins I was 2/E on the City of Colombo in 1969 sitting quietly in Bahain doing bearing wear-downs and deflections when we saw what looked like a scratch on the polished internal fillet of No 4 aft crankweb. It didn't take very long to establish that it was indeed a crack that extended half way across the crankweb.
To cut quite a long story short, we were towed to Bahrain where we fitted a massive strap around the crankweb and as a result of a load of calculations from Doxfords reset the valve timing to effectively make it a 3 cylinder engine. We went to Bashra to load sand into the holds to make the hull as straight as possible and then set off slowly for Sunderland, stopping briefly most days to check around the crankcase and occasionally doing an alignment check.
We arrived in Sunderland 43 days later after a very uneventful passage. As we were maneuvering alongside Greenwalls yard the C/E said " Wouldn't be ironic if the crank broke on the last movement". Little did he know how nearly true that became as, whilst the aft half of the engine was being stripped out, we found a crack in No 3 forward crankweb! The original crack was due to an inclusion in the internal fillet area but I can't recall what was concluded about the one at No3. However, I believe both locations were the most highly stressed in this crankshaft design.
The ship was out of service for about 9 months and a couple of years later I sailed as C/E for a couple of relatively uneventful trips.
However it appears I couldn't escape this ship and it's troubles as in 1974 I was it's superintendent when she suffered a serve microbial attack on most crankcase bearings requiring a lot of crankshaft pins and journals to machined in situ and Xhead pins to be removed for micro finishing
Happy days !
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  #60  
Old 6th December 2018, 14:40
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A chief we had engaged, new to the Co for Kommander Subsea had a fantastic photographic story of a broken crankshaft. B&W I think but a big slow speed ME on a livestock carrier conversion.

The break was at a crank pin and the repair, which ran for a round trip Australia to PG, was to fashion a plate that wrapped around both webs. With the unit 'fully' 'hung-up'.
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  #61  
Old 6th December 2018, 14:55
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Tim,

Interesting story
Crankshafts were the problems with Doxford Engines, if the engine had 6 cylinders.
So far as I know, no problems with 3 cylinders.

Btw, never heard of broken crankshafts with a SUN-DOXFORD
MOST PROBABLY , BETTER STEEL FIRMS IN THE U.S.A.

Perhaps it is interesting to know, that on the moment there is only one Doxford in service, the Drill Ship. “Mv ABAN ICE” with a 6 cylinder Doxford, turbo charged (ex mv Jean Schneider, built in France in 1959)
The very last one.

Almost 60 years in service!!!

Alfons
Http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters
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  #62  
Old 6th December 2018, 15:22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by averheijden View Post
Tim,

Interesting story
Crankshafts were the problems with Doxford Engines, if the engine had 6 cylinders.
So far as I know, no problems with 3 cylinders.

Btw, never heard of broken crankshafts with a SUN-DOXFORD
MOST PROBABLY , BETTER STEEL FIRMS IN THE U.S.A.

Perhaps it is interesting to know, that on the moment there is only one Doxford in service, the Drill Ship. “Mv ABAN ICE” with a 6 cylinder Doxford, turbo charged (ex mv Jean Schneider, built in France in 1959)
The very last one.

Almost 60 years in service!!!

Alfons
Http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matters
Alfons,
I shouldn't started this as I've just remembered another 75LB6 story!
The City of Newcastle had had a cracked centre bearing pocket for a number of years. It has a condition of Class against it but was stable
The ship was being sold to Ben Line and not unreasonably they wanted the condition removed so we had the pocket rewelded - no mean feat on this engine. The work was done and we boxed the engine up and ran an engine trial but to our horror that centre bearing wiped very badly as soon as the engine turned. We had the bearing out many times but every attempt to get that bearing to run correctly failed.
Eventually we got a Doxford service engineer to attend and he established that there was nothing wrong with the bearing pocket alignment but there was a significant throw in the journal - seemingly introduced when it was machined in situ some years previously. Apparently this was not a problem with the cracked bearing pocket as it could "wobble around" sufficiently allow the journal to remain reasonably aligned to the bearing surface but having made a good job of rewelding the pocket there was no way it would have it!
Machining that throw out was a very difficult job and took many, many days to get it right
More happy days - not !!
PS. It wasn't only Doxfords. Have a few tales about a Sulzer 12RSAD76 !!
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Last edited by Tim Gibbs; 6th December 2018 at 15:27.. Reason: Forgot something
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  #63  
Old 6th December 2018, 17:41
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[QUOTE=Tim Gibbs;2957353]
I shouldn't started this as I've just remembered another 75LB6 story!
The City of Newcastle had had a cracked centre bearing pocket for a number of years. It has a condition of Class against it but was stable
The ship was being sold to Ben Line and not unreasonably they wanted the condition removed so we had the pocket rewelded - no mean feat on this engine. The work was done and we boxed the engine up and ran an engine trial but to our horror that centre bearing wiped very badly as soon as the engine turned. We had the bearing out many times but every attempt to get that bearing to run correctly failed.
[c/QUOTE]



Rewelding on a bearing pocket or cracks in a bearing saddle is NOT a good solution
90 % of all cases it is got out of hand.

I remember a case on an auxiliary diesel a Bolnes , 5 cylinder in a V, so a ten cylinder engine
We found some cracks in the crankshaft bearing saddles.
During a docking period in Japan, the superintendent decided to weld those cracks
It got completely out of hand, we could not use the engine anymore
The next port the maker (BOLNES) came on board with all new bearing saddles and a dummy to line out the crankshaft.

So far my point of view, of welding on bearing pockets or bearing saddles.
Watch it every port, and if it stay stable, do nothing!!!

Alfons
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  #64  
Old 6th December 2018, 19:26
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Quote:
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PS. It wasn't only Doxfords. Have a few tales about a Sulzer 12RSAD76 !!
Don't Mention Sulzer to me ! !

BP had 2 ships with Sulzer 7RSAD76's and I had the misfortune to sail on both of them. They were a crock of {excrement} Pulled more pistons in a 6 month trip than I did in the whole of my time on B&W and Doxfords.
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  #65  
Old 7th December 2018, 11:56
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Alfons,
No problem with the pocket repair in this case . It was the fact that the centre journal did not run true as it had been incorrectly machined in situ some time previously and it thought it was a mini -crank !!
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  #66  
Old 7th December 2018, 12:09
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Originally Posted by jmirvine View Post
Don't Mention Sulzer to me ! !

BP had 2 ships with Sulzer 7RSAD76's and I had the misfortune to sail on both of them. They were a crock of {excrement} Pulled more pistons in a 6 month trip than I did in the whole of my time on B&W and Doxfords.
I'm so sorry! I thought there was only one RSAD and we had it !
Strangely pistons and rings, I don't recall, were ever a problem for us; it was turbochargers, flame rings, lubricator quills, holding down bolts, camshaft, tie bolts & exhaust valves. Perhaps we never noticed the pistons amongst the other crap?!
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  #67  
Old 8th December 2018, 00:33
dannic dannic is offline  
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Lost the crankshaft on a MAN auxy engine, due to governor drive gear failure, and separate mechanical overspeed didnt work either -was tested regularly but only by hand! Crankshaft was hardness tested and deemed to be too brittle so needed renewal. Very interesting to see worksquad of 2 changing the shaft. With lots of our manpower of course!! Biggest work -up was all the paperwork I had to do for class and flag state to enable ship to carry on trading!!
Dannic
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  #68  
Old 8th December 2018, 01:21
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Do you remember if this was an electronic governor or hydro-mechanical?
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