HMS Parthian FV - Ships Nostalgia
17:08

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

HMS Parthian FV

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 3rd April 2020, 13:16
Goggles Goggles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 7
HMS Parthian FV

Hi all
I am new to the forum, so hello to all members.
I am at present researching the WW1 Grimsby trawler Parthian (GY 646). To date I don't have a great deal on the vessel, so any additional information would be most appreciated.

The site believed to be the wreck as the Parthian is listed at 52 58 15 N /01 09 30 E, this being a few miles offshore from Weybourne in Norfolk. I have her built by Cook, Welton & Gemmell in 1911 at their Beverley yard in East Yorksire. Type, Trawler / Minesweeper, propulsion steam, 202grt, armament x1 six pounder gun, cause of loss, collision with the SS Vera.

Many thanks

Goggles.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 3rd April 2020, 16:00
Roger Griffiths's Avatar
Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,154
Hello and welcome to the forum,
Some wires crossed somewhere.
According to the book Cook Welton and Gemmill, Shipbuilders of Hull and Beverley. ISBN 1 902709 02 0
PARTHIAN Official number 132115, Port Number GY646. was launched 15/08/1911 Completed 17/10/1911, Yard Number 223.
202Grt 90Nrt. L 115.33 B 21.5.
Engineered by C D Holmes, 67 NHP, !0 knots.
For The Onward Steam Fishing Co. Grimsby.

August 1914 Requisitioned as a Minesweeper by RN, Pennent number FY328 Renamed PARTHIAN II returned and reverted to owners in 1919.
17/09/1927 Sold to Sir Thomas Robinson and Sons, Grimsby.
November 1939 Requisitioned by RN and returned to owners in December.

16/12/1941 vessel lost in collision with the Greek ship ATLANTICOS off the Isle of Lewis.

All crew saved.

Her registry details
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C13342690

Last logbook and crew agreement.
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C11043682

The National Archive is closed at the moment due to the current pandemic.

regards
Roger
__________________
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 4th April 2020, 08:41
Goggles Goggles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 7
Hi Roger
Thank you for the information. It would appear that wires are crossed somewhere along the line. I did come accross much of the information you have given, however it does conflict with other accounts given of her loss. The Parthian is listed as lost in 1914 here due to collision https://sites.google.com/site/ukboat...gistered-boats In addition Wrecksite have this https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?144924 as a 1914 loss and then in addition they have this on Wrecksite as lost in 1941. All very confusing?
Regards
Goggles.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 4th April 2020, 08:50
Goggles Goggles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 7
Sorry, didnt add link for Wrecksite 1941 https://www.wrecksite.eu/wreck.aspx?273826

Regards

Goggles
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 4th April 2020, 13:04
Roger Griffiths's Avatar
Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,154
Hello Goggles,
I'll put my money were my mouth is.
Both of those web sites have It WRONG.

There is too much documentary evidence contained in original, official primary sources. Rather than unsubstantiated info taken from the Internet

I have given you the links to the National Archive giving the vessels ownership and registration documents which says her registry was closed in early 1942. Also details of Crew Agreements and Logbooks for 1941, her L/B's and C/A;s for 1939 and 1940 are also there.
If she was sunk in 1914 How come these documents still exsist?

There were only two Grimsby boats to have the number GY646.

UHULAN official number 78482 from 1877 until 1895 and PARTHEON O/N 132115 from 1911-1942 (Source N.E. Linc's Archives) so the only name in the frame is O/N 132115.

From the Mercantile Navy List 1940. Also in every year avilable from 1912 (see also the links to CLIP below)

https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vie...Steam&page=294

Find attached, Two official documents from the series BT145 from the National Archive.

Returns of Grimsby Fishing Boats 1909-1913 and 1934-1938
I have the returns for every year from 1911 to 1938.

Finaly a page from the well respected site Crew List Index Project.

https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/ves...&submit=search

In the general scheme of things, It's neither here nor there but if we are going to do it lets do it right

regards
Roger.

PS This Corona thing is making me more bored than I thought!
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 12212 608.jpg (81.5 KB, 6 views)
File Type: jpg DCP_9516.jpg (92.8 KB, 6 views)
__________________
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 4th April 2020, 15:17
Hugh MacLean's Avatar
Hugh MacLean Hugh MacLean is online now
Senior Member
Organisation: Royal Navy
Active: 1976 - 1988
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,532
I will eat my hat if Roger is wrong about this.

There is no indication [at least that I can see] in any of the newspapers of the time naming the ship in collision with the VERA - nearest I get is a Grimsby trawler engaged in minesweeping duties.

My own thinking, FWIW, is the ship involved in the collision with VERA was the (GY646) PARTHIAN but there is no indication that this ship was lost in the collision and I think the same ship was renamed PARTHIAN II in 1915 and lost in 1941.

PARTHIAN, hired trawler, Adty No 328. Built 1911, 202grt, Grimsby-reg GY.646. Armament: 1-6pdr. In service 8.14-1919 as minesweeper. Renamed PARTHIAN II 12.15. Served in WW2.
https://www.naval-history.net/WW1Nav...s-Dittmar3.htm

Problem with the internet is there is correct and incorrect information out there and at the end of the day you need the primary resources to separate the wheat from the chaff. Roger has given that information in his post.

Regards
Hugh
__________________
"If Blood was the price
We had to pay for our freedom
Then the Merchant Ship Sailors
Paid it in full”

Last edited by Hugh MacLean; 4th April 2020 at 16:17..
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 4th April 2020, 18:15
Roger Griffiths's Avatar
Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,154
Thanks Hugh,

I note that the source info concerning the wreck of VERA ON 96558 https://www.northnorfolkdivers.co.uk...sites/ss-vera/
Makes no reference to the loss of HMS PARTHEON

Just because two vessels were in collison, we should not assume that both vessels were lost.

I think this is where the confussion stems from.

I also note that the second link that Goggles gave to Wrecksite corrects itself and gives the same information that I originaly related.

Further we have this from TNA
https://discovery.nationalarchives.g...ls/r/C10337817

This from the 1915 Mercantile Navy List
https://www.crewlist.org.uk/data/vie...ail=Steam&goto

She does not appear in the 1916 edition.

regards
Roger
__________________
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 4th April 2020, 18:26
Goggles Goggles is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2020
Posts: 7
Thank you Roger and Hugh
The evidence you offer regarding the Parthian not being lost in 1914 is overwhelmingly supportive of that fact. I have researched many wrecks in my time, in turn put correct names to previously misidentified wreck sites. I try never to leave any stone unturned, no matter how obscure it might seem. My experiences have taught me anything is possible, even official records being wrong. I was not disputing Rogers evidence, I was just stating other versions of events that have been put forward by various sources (be them unofficial), this being part and parcel of the investigative work I undertake.
Thank you again for all of your help.
Regards

Goggles.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.