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Discussion thread for William Doxford and Sons. If you would like to add a comment, click the New Reply button

[zelo1954]

I've always regarded it a special privilege to have been brought up in Sunderland in the 50s. Little did I realise at the time that what I was actually witnessing was an "Indian Summer" of Victorian heavy industry.

Doxford's doesn't hold any really special memories for me over and above those of the other industry on the river, but my father worked there for a short while during the mid-50s in what was called the "sailor gang". Dad was an ex-RN type. He worked there at the time Reardon Smith's Leeds City was being fitted out. I recall that gang had their fair share of scary jobs to do. Later he worked just up the river at Shorts.

I left the town in 1961 and came to NZ in 1970 so I never saw the new shipbuilding complex, though I've obviously seen photographs. One of these was of Bank Line's Riverbank being floated out. Much earlier, in 1956, I'd been in a primary school party that visited the yard to witness the launch of the earlier Riverbank. I note the day was 17th December 1956, but I seem to recall a bright sunny and warm day.

I would have seen many a launch from the Alexandra Bridge from Doxfords (and the other two yards up there). Two that stand out for some reason were the Anchor liner Tyria and Reardon Smith's Welsh City.

Does anyone remember the Doxford crane tank locomotives?

[John King]

Hi Zelo1954, did you know sunderland was known as the biggest shipbuilding town in the world i worked there a lot during my appyship for Campbell an isherwoods they used to do the electrical installion on all their ships in the 50s an 60s regards jk

[Pat McCardle]

Alas, John, along with most things 'Industrial' in today's speak WAS is a common word here in Sunderland along with ONCE. At least we have plenty of nostalgia & await the rising of the Phoenix.

[jimmys]

The Doxford common rail fuel system with some modifications is back in some of the modern designs. So it was not because it was all bad that it died, I think B&W and Sultzer were just moving faster.

jimmys

[K urgess]

I've started to edit the manufacturing process section of the Doxford pages by adding the photographs that Averheijden has so kindly posted in the gallery as comments to the Doxford picture. Mainly because that is getting a bit overloaded and it takes a while to find your way to the latest comment.
It may take me a while to complete the transfer.
I hope that any comments re Doxfords will be added to this discussion thread in the same way as above.
If anybody fancies having a go at a Doxford technical section for the Guides please feel free. Help is available to get you on your way.

Cheers
Kris

[jazz606]

I'm not an engineer so forgive my ignorance. The common rail fuel system seems to be a common feature of modern automotive diesels (including my Ford Mondeo). Can that be traced back to Doxfords?

[Bearsie]

Here is a bit of an explanation, although not with much history attached...

http://www.swedespeed.com/news/publi...inter_272.html

A bit more history is to be found here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_rail

A more general description here:

http://www.dieselforum.org/meet-clea...uel-injection/

[jazz606]

Bearsie

Thanks for that. I take it then that the automotive common rail diesel (CDXI in my Ford) is not turbocharged as such? In the 3rd link you sent it talks about pressures in the delivery system of 25,000 psi! In the case of large marine diesels are many of them common rail; and if so how does turbocharging apply?

I can't believe they'd let all that energy go up the flue.

[760J9]

Evolution of the Doxford "Oil" engine, apparently it is sacrelige to refer to it as a Diesel, is as follows
The "L" as in Yngaren's 540L4 engine. L is generally regarded to be LONG (cylinder bore for two opposed pistons)
Yngaren was fitted with two cylinder opposed piston Doxford generators, but at the time Doxfords were not willing to continue simulatneous producion of main and auxilliary engines. (The general arrangement shows three such generators, but only two were installed.
LB where B is BALANCED, the balance being achieved by differing the lengths of the upper and lower piston strokes, which had until then been equal in length.
LBD As before but with the lower piston having a DIAPHRAGM around it to prevent contmination of the lub oil from the products of combustion that may otherwise be caused
LBDS as before but supercharged
LBDS variants would include LBDCS ( CENTRAL SCAVENGE), not external lever driven scavenge pumps. LBDSC (SHORT CENTRES) between cylinders to reduce the overall length of the engine
P TYPE after PERCY jackson who redesigned the LBD in an attempt to address the need for higher outputs. The variants were PN where N was NORMALLY aspirated, only one ever built, (for Saint LIne). PT where T was TURBO Charged. all P types were 670mm bore
J Type again After percy JACKSON responsible for the significant design changes, the crankshaft being the most radical change, but even this design had been suggested many years previously. Variants of the J would be JS, Short stroke as in the 580 JS3 engines for Furness Withy and Ellerman small container ships and the preserved engine at Beamish open air museum. CP where CONSTANT PRESSURE turboo charging was used. This, I think. as a result of MAN's findings on the SEAHORSE engine.The JS engine incorporated many of the design features of the Seahorse engine.
SEAHORSE The 580 4 cylinder medium speed engine , geared, only the proto type built, as previously stated a joint venture between Hawthorn Leslie (a major Doxford licensee ) and Doxfords. the Seahorse being Hawthorn's House badge.
Doxford also built several Brown Curtis Turbines under licenece for the warships built at Doxfords yard.
Before Doxfords ever built their first oil engine, they had in fact been sold. Workman Clark had bought Northumberland Shipbuilders who at the time had a capital value of about £500,000. Within a year or so of the take over by Workman Clark, the capital was increased to no less than £7,000,000. Northumberland then went on a "spending spree" buying up other shipbuilding firms. One was Doxfords and another was Workman Clkark which was bought for significantly less than its market value, prompting legal proceedings, recorded in the Belfast press and a copy of which is in Tyne & Wear Archives
As a matter of interest, it is strongly believed by many that the Doxford family were from the knight of William the Conqueror. The theory is that Sire de Gaugi (on the battle Abbey Rolls) was rewarded with land in Northumberland at what would be eventually Doxford, (from Doxfordham). De gaugi's changed their name to de Doxford after the name of land they held, and eventually just plain Doxford. The lineage can be PROVED up to 1745 when in the Jacobite rebellion Doxfords fled to Dalton. A Doxford did surface at Dalton le Dale in County Durham and these would eventually become William Doxford the shipbuilder. My problem has been in establishing for definite that the Doxfords that fled Northumberland were the same ones that settled at Dalton le Dale. Charles Doxford, one of the shipbuilders, appointed local, Sunderland historian,Corder, to prove the link. Corder in his manuscripts held in Sunderland Library, Local Studies, said that he had been unable to establish the link, likely as it seemed. Over the years I have searched through records in Sunderland, Durham and Northumberland and have as yet been unable to prove the link. I have the address to which the Doxfords allegedly fled, Hindley Hill, then in Easington Parish, but cannot be certain that it was those from Doxford. Others say that it is proved, but I haven't yet seen the proof, though I am reasonably sure it is. One of the potential difficultie in proving where Doxfords fled to, is the existance of several Daltons in the North East of England, some nearer tp Doxford than Dalton le Dale.
However, if French knights were the ancestors of Doxfords, and a Swiss engineer, (Keller) designed the first Doxford oil engine in conjunction with the German Junkers, from his and Ochellhausers (?) patent, and Doxfords were taken over by an Irish firm and even the last and gifted head of design at Doxfords (Finn Orbeck) is a Norweigan, we must be careful about the boast of this only true BRITISH slow speed engine! But what a thought that William the Conqueror gave us William the Con Rod. Doxfords shipbuilding and marine engineering history is a fascinating one to study, they were an amazing company and well worth reading about.

[Doxfordman]

Tom,
Excellent article / post. It has certainly given me more of an insight in to the marvels of the mighty Doxford!

[steviej]

Tom
Great article. Thanks a lot
steviej

[760J9]

Thanks Doxfordman, thanks steviej. Twenty five years on it just gets more interesting. Glad so many contribute their Doxford knowledge & experiences in SN
tom

[monty]

If you have'nt seen it there is a Doxford website at http://www.doxford-engine.com/engines.htm monty

[billyboy]

I never got the experience of Doxfords. Must say I am impressed with what i have learned of them from this thread. Some feat of engineering skill to build a machine like that.
Wish I had gone deep water now

[doric]

My first two deep sea voyages in 1950 were on the Dominion Monarch, as an Elect. Engr., she had four Doxford engines, and I would think this vessel would have to be their "pride & Joy?", she was a great ship engineering wise, carried 500 1st Class Passengers, on the South Africa, Australia, New Zealand, run. At that time she was also the largest Refrigerated Cargo vessel afloat.

She also sailed to a strict time schedule.

Regards, Terence Williams. R538301.

[chadburn]

If my memory serves me right there was a crankcase explosion on the "North Sands" at the yard, any idea's as to what the cause was, I also think that somebody's luck unfortunatly ran out as a result. The engine was testing at the time. It was Doxford engines that saw to the end of the triple expansion engined Tramps although some ship owners had one of each built to compare when the Government new build subsidies were in place which were given on account of their possible "War Role", remember they had two safe's!!

[Peter Short]

In the history of the Doxford engine I am surprised by the following statement:

It is completely different to the Junkers opposed-piston design, as the upper pistons are connected to the single crankshaft by connecting rods each side of the main cylinder

The Doxford was exactly like the Junkers, it was a licensed copy. I have diagrams and photos of the early industrial Junkers engines; they all have side rods either side of the central rod. The French CLM engines made under license to Junkers also use the side rods.

I can only assume the writer means that the Doxford differs from the later Junkers opposed piston aero engines, but that is hardly surprising.

See books like Lyle Cummins Internal Fire and Diesel's Engine, both excellent.

----

Regarding common rail injection, as far as I know the earliest use was Vickers with their WW1 submarine diesels. Not only did Vickers use solid injection from 1909, in 1916 they used common rail, i.e. all injectors receiving fuel under pressure from a common source. See Lyle Cummins latest book Diesels for the First stealth Weapons: Submarine Power 1902-1945

[averheijden]

Originally Posted by chadburn

If my memory serves me right there was a crankcase explosion on the "North Sands" at the yard, any idea's as to what the cause was, I also think that somebody's luck unfortunatly ran out as a result. The engine was testing at the time.

Hi Chadburn,
TESTING?

I heard a different story:
"The North Sands completed trials satisfactorily – indeed it completed the first full year satisfactorily.

The first period of service was with Doxford engineers on board running the ship on behalf of Doxfords.

The second year it was operated by John I Jacobs shipping. Mike Woodward stayed on the ship as Third Engineer.

The ship was outward bound and was just passing Las Palmas, when the crankcase oily mist detector alarm sounded. (Good practice would have been to slow the ship down in order to allow the parts to slowly cool down. ) Instead, the ship was continued to be operated at full speed. The second engineer opened the port window (That was fitted to the engine casing at about crosshead height) – this allowed oxygen rich air to pass into the crank chamber this gave rise to an immediate crankcase explosion – the second engineer was killed and Mike Woodward , who at the time was taking indicator cards on the camshaft platform was caught by the flame – he raised his arms to cover his face and was quite badly burned about his arms – apart from this he made a good recovery and was a member of DEFA for many years until his untimely death last year.

The reason why the oil mist detector alarmed was because a cross-head centre bearing pad had overheated

(According British Engineers, the centre pad was very difficult to adjust to the right clearance?
Clearance, 0,00153" = 0,038mm, Roughly 0,05 mm)
BTW, I have no experience with the "P" or "J" Type, only with LB's

So far
regards
ALFONS

[chadburn]

Alfons, I respect your obvious knowledge of the Doxford, however as I indicated I alway's thought that there was a Crankcase Explosion when the vessel was alongside the Yard, however, I am not sure enough to put a bet on it!! Thank you for the incident report which proved of interest. I have only experienced two Doxford's whilst at sea, my main employer Maritime Fruit preferred B&W and indeed so did I as previously indicated. Regard's Chad.

[averheijden]

L.S.
I received a confirmation about the accident on the mv NORTH SANDS by the 2nd Engineer Bill Purvis on the picture:

<quote>Dear Alfons,
I was involved with all quay trials and sea trials aboard MV. North Sands in 1965 and during that period no fatal accident occurred. However some years later a crankcase explosion occurred off the West African coast killing the Second Engineer. This was caused by an overheated crosshead bearing and ignited when an inspection cover was opened
I hope this helps with your research
Regards
Bill Purvis </quote>

Regards
Alfons

[A.D.FROST]

Thank you for clearing up the incident. I like Chadburn had heard a similar story, only I though it happened on sea-trials.Doxfords hope to sell the proto.engine to BP.(BRITISH COMMERCE)which became the largest engine to be built at Geo.Clark/NEM,Southwick engine works a Clark/Sulzer 9RD90(18,000bhp)

[chadburn]

Alfon's, the name Bill Purvis is known to me, did he serve his time at Smith's and invent the Submarine Emergency marker buoy system?

[anthony1664]

Originally Posted by averheijden

Hi Chadburn,
TESTING?

I heard a different story:
"The North Sands completed trials satisfactorily – indeed it completed the first full year satisfactorily.

The first period of service was with Doxford engineers on board running the ship on behalf of Doxfords.

The second year it was operated by John I Jacobs shipping. Mike Woodward stayed on the ship as Third Engineer.

The ship was outward bound and was just passing Las Palmas, when the crankcase oily mist detector alarm sounded. (Good practice would have been to slow the ship down in order to allow the parts to slowly cool down. ) Instead, the ship was continued to be operated at full speed. The second engineer opened the port window (That was fitted to the engine casing at about crosshead height) – this allowed oxygen rich air to pass into the crank chamber this gave rise to an immediate crankcase explosion – the second engineer was killed and Mike Woodward , who at the time was taking indicator cards on the camshaft platform was caught by the flame – he raised his arms to cover his face and was quite badly burned about his arms – apart from this he made a good recovery and was a member of DEFA for many years until his untimely death last year.

The reason why the oil mist detector alarmed was because a cross-head centre bearing pad had overheated

Found this article while looking around for some info on the MV North Sands. My dad was the 3rd engineer mentioned and as well as his arms his side was extensively burned and his leg badly affected too, in all he had 66% burns and remained in hospital in Las Palmas for 6 months. As mentioned he passed away a couple of years ago it was cancer that finished him off not the burns from the accident.

Anyone who has any more info or photos from the time I would greatly appreciate seeing them.

[ben27]

hi averheijden.26th.september2012 19:37.re:william doxford and son.i am not an engineer,but the tread is most interesting,your clip on doxfords repairs is very comprehensive visualy to a non eng,thank you for your post. have a good day,ben27