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A list of Bulk Carriers that have suffered structural failure

162K views 639 replies 58 participants last post by  alastairrussell 
#1 ·
1995-Dec.1
Bulker MOUNT OLYMPUS, 33186gt, built 1969, abandoned by her crew after a 17 meter long crack developed in her deck. The ship was sailing on ballast in mid Atlantic from Ravenna to Norfolk.
 
#478 · (Edited)
WilliamH

Thanks for all the info in your 463 post

The specs for Sigsilver which was the largest dry cargo ship in the world when she was commissioned were laid down by a very progressive Norwegian ship owning family called the Bergesens. Apparently Sig Bergesen's son's company who was having the rather 'overspecified' ship and engine built by the top ship builder IHI in Japan when he got into financial difficulties. Dad had to move in and he sold off the Sig Silver on the building blocks to Silver line of London. Silver line immediately tried to reduce the cost of the building of this rather unigue and very progressive ship by canceling the ER lift and other items !!!!

From your post I now see why all our DNV required spare parts were all 2nd hand and worn out!

She was definitely built to the new 1966 Load Line convention and she did not appear to have any of the problems of the other ships built to the new 1966 specs. Yes, yes, she had a fo’c’s’le deck with heaps of 'beaut' electric hydraulic machinery to operate all the deck machinery. I remember the ford mast having a 1.3 tonne of hydraulic oil in the header tank fitted inside the mast.

William, I too loved that TA and we even put up with the water hammer when putting it on line when leaving port (our fault). We used to shut it down in port . We smashed one of the caterpillar crankshafts and then found out from the 'cat reps' that our torsional vibration dampers on both machines were well over their use by dates by as much as 20,000 hrs. After the both dampers were replaced, our cats rang like the proverbial singer sewing machines from then on both the electrical and diesel side. I really got to like caterpillar diesels after that as the spare parts are easily obtained and at a very reasonable price compared to UK diesels. They are definitely not like your shocking Paxman diesels.

I am of the view that there is two types of cracking in most ship structures, there are the localised ones from the stresses built into the ships during construction and then the main and bad ones which are generated from poor loading procedures and over stressing in heavy weather . Bulk carriers have a problem because of the stiffness created by the hatch coamings and this means that all the hull flexing has to be concentrated between the hatches.

No major hull welding should be carried out at sea especially on diesel ships (Too Too much vibration). When the weld is cooling down rapidly you do want any movement in the crack!!! The best thing you can do if this is not possible is to place the crack in total compression (metal to metal). Please note that most of the BHP trained marine engineers had welding certificates.

I think the only hull failures on the Iron Sirius were all man made. There was a major failure in the flooded hold when she put sea from Port Kembla in ballast without the flooded hold being totally flooded. The wave action generated peeled the frames away from the outer shell.

On another occasion I remember the DNV surveyor during a load line survey on the IS saying to the C/M “ I see you do not use all the extra cleats on the flooded hold hatch cover” The C/M face went red and the surveyor said “ Don't worry, Do not worry, no ship uses them all, but remember one thing if the ship sinks and we send a diver down and he reports that all the cleats have not been utilised you will be in trouble”. If I remember right that DNV surveyor was descended from Amundsen who was the first chappie to get to the south pole.

William I am thinking that BHP must have moved your office down aft to near the ER lift that they fitted. I only had a really small office with a wee poky window looking aft?

Great to hear from you

Alastair
 
#490 ·
Yocalbro is an aluminium bronze alloy, sea water and corossion resistant but other wise NFG.

regards

Malky


Yorcalbro - an alloy produced by Yorkshire Alloys Ltd. originally patented in 1930 and patent lapsed in 2002 (Ask Jeeves)
Hence name YOR - York, C - copper, AL - aluminium, BRO - bronze.

Would have agreed that is was impossible to repair until drydock in North Shields on "Tor Caledonia" after her charter in the Falklands, and talking to a welder from small specialist welding firm from ??? (just south of South Shields). Easy- if you pre heat area with oxy acet heating torch and have second oxy acet torch and correct flux covered yorcalbro brazing rods, - he showed me back in their workshop. So basically I agree impossible to repair. Seemingly an excellent material when used in smaller heat exchanger tubes but when used in larger pipework ended up as nightmare and a great product for shareholders in Thistlebond !
 
#493 · (Edited)
Has anyone got any ideas on how to access this new 'youbute' DNV source of info as it looks really good. I have tried and failed so I was thinking of contacting DNV and get down on my knees and pleading! Google 'Ships Superintendant's Manual --- DNV'.

For Superintendents - By Superintendents

The new, online version of Superintendent's Manual™ has just been launched. Superintendent’s Manual™ is a unique product offering best practices and up-to-date operational, technical and regulatory information to maritime players ranging from shipbuilders and training centres to professional ship managers.

With reference to your problems with 'Youcalbro' did anyone do a proper analysis on the failures. Aluminium is used as a sacrificial anode on ships so I was wondering if electrolysis might have been the problem, especially on the outside if there was any inferior shipyard welding on the exterior of the pipework (seawater).

On the Iron Endeavour the ships engineers had to replace all the carbon steel hatch hydraulics lines at sea after 2 to 3 years. We replaced all the pipes, clamps and bolts with marine grade stainless steel (316). We used stainless steel ermeto couplings (no welding).

We were very impressed with these couplings as they were fitted to our new J type Doxford main engine on the HP fuel injection lines. I often wonder how these SS hydraulic lines are now getting on lying at the bottom of the sea off Capetown. She was the first big bulkcarrier in AU and the AU DOT decided that our 4/E had to have a 2/E motor ticket back then.

Alastair
 
#494 · (Edited)
I just had to get the number 500 post. Thank you Thank you everyone from the DSM.

Dave

Thanks for your support it is much appreciated. I see you are to get 43'C today so just sit back in the chair and watch the TV and don't go into the bush and put any fires out.

I have turned my fibreglass dinghy the right way up and filled it with waater. Meg and I have our engine room boots,white boilersuits and hard hats ready for action. When I run out of water in the dinghy putting the spot fires out we will pull the dinghy down the steep hill and row it into the Newlands backwater!! We have been inundated with Kookaburras high up in the trees and the noise is deafning in the morning and in the early night. I am sure these birds know something that we don't.

Regards

Alastair
 
#498 ·
Yocalbro deck steam pipes.

I got a frantic call from the wheelhouse whilst we were approaching some Gulf oil terminal. I was second, the ship London Team. A winch stop valve had disappeared into the heavens and a large amount of the deck steam line was nothing more than a length of scrap. I shut off the deck steam line and told the bridge to abort the berthing. What a mess!! Eventually got it all patched up and we berthed, loaded and left. A flexible piece of steam pipe was delivered passing some place. i believe this incident was the end of the road for this alloy piping. We were very lucky that no one was hurt or killed.
It was used on sea water pipes in the engineroom too and the welds leaked there.
Bad stuff altogether. With steel you knew what was happening and you could easily repair/renew as required.

Regards

Malky
 
#523 · (Edited)
(@)
AND, You could sure loose a lot of water very quickly when that happened.
Not a good thing up the Gulf - generally speaking.
Did it come down again ? (That which went into the heavens)
And where was the Chief ? (engineer)
Not even you can be in two places at once, although sometimes some thought that you could.

Sorry for the delay - can only manage a minute, at this time.
Fire precautions are taking preference today.
 
#499 · (Edited)
Thanks Dave

I have been teaching the dog how swim today and she has a doggy life jacket. Meg asked "Were is my life jacket" I said "I don't know, you can swim and the dinghy has buoyancy tanks" Keep it quiet Dave, but I bought the dinghy real cheap with a crack in the hull big enough to really shame a tired old bulky. I of course fibre-glassed it up without DNV approval!!!

Thanks for your info Malky. If I remember right the upmarket Iron Sirius had Cupra Nickel or something similar sea water pipes in the ER and it may have been fitted through out the whole ship. We did not have any problems that I know about.

Malky, see below as it is from the DNV 'Superintendants Manual' website:

Purpose

Superintendent’s Manual™ is a knowledge hub for best practices in shipbuilding and ship operations, and provides up-to-date operational, technical and regulatory information for ship superintendents and other marine personnel.

Benefits

A user-friendly tool which helps improve the quality and efficiency of daily work

Facilitates the planning, contracting and building of safer and more cost-effective ships

Describes inspection work and procedures with focus on technical details where errors and poor workmanship are frequent and where the consequences of uncorrected faults may be serious

Contributes to increased safety and reduced costs

Assists in more efficient cooperation within the individual shipping company and between the company and its business partners

Increases expertise and contributes to proficiency in shipping and other marine companies

Renders practical and theoretical support to maritime educations, post-graduate courses, training academies, etc.

Reduces training costs.

Features

Detailed and comprehensive information related to operational procedures and technical matters, including descriptions of systems and components, checklists, forms and examples of practical solutions and precautions

Built on DNV’s know-how and expertise, contributions from recognised shipping organisations, experienced superintendents and other marine personnel

A company’s private “work space”, where individuals can store and colleagues can share information

Excellent search functionality for quick access to content

Supports direct access from mobile devices: http://mobile.superintendentsmanual.com

A fully web-based service.

 
#501 · (Edited)
Never heard of aluminium anodes being fitted to steel hulls of ships, only ever used zinc anodes on steel hulls. Aluminium anodes are used on aluminium alloy hull vessels but I don't think the ships we are talking about here had aluminium alloy hulls. I was referring to an earlier alastarrussell post, but I see now that the referrence to aluminium anodes has been edited out of that post.
 
#507 · (Edited)
I'm enjoying this thread thanks to OM80 drawing me in with the Mt Erebus thing. BTW there is a really good 5 part do***entary by tvnz on YouTube here.
I met an ex P&O master in 1994 (I think) whose last ship had been an 'pre used' OBO which the co had bought. He told me that it was in such bad shape that he planned all the voyages to be as near land as possible. Apparently matters came to a head when the co wanted them to prepare the ship for an oil cargo, as I understand it he refused and retired slightly early. I'm sure he was not exaggerating and the whole thing sounded like a complete nightmare. Maybe someone knows what vessel this was?
 
#508 ·
NoR, P&O were involved with many such vessels, Anglo Nordic ones for example. The list will be lengthy. They also had many of their own. All would be wrecks after ten years or less in service.

Not much good info wise but P&O do have a web site containing details of all their ships. Might be worth looking at.

regards

Malky
 
#509 · (Edited)
BHP found that many drydocking companies were supplying sub standard Zinc anodes that were not doing their job. They then decided to purchase and test their own anodes and to make sure that they were indeed fitted to their ships. Our job in the dry docking process was to ensure that they were in fact fitted to our ship and this included that the anti foulingh paint we supplied was also used on our ships .

We had two sister ships one was fitted with normal anti fouling paint and the other the super douper self polishing paint to see if there was a financial advantages in fuel cost saving to use the self polishing paint. The cost of the standard paint job was about $50,000 as against $250,000 for the many coats of self polishing paint.

Alastair
 
#511 · (Edited)
It would appear none of you took part in my quiz in the quiz forum of this site, entitled "A ship with a problem"?

I am copying and pasting one of my replies to one chap who condemned them outright (OBO'S) saying "A POX ON THEM", after I had mentioned a favourite OBO of mine:-

My reply was as follows:-

Copy and Paste.

************************************************** *****



The basic OBO concept was quite good, but the trouble appeared to have been, they were never given the opportunity to evolve, to develope, to improve, as I personally believe they deserved.
The first generation were shocking, but the second generation, was very much improved, but a headache nevertheless.
However, considering a batch of 6 x 2nd Generation sister ships built over a period of 12 months ( approx), the difference / improvement between No. 1 and No. 6 was enormous.
They were sister ships, but with very small changes, came very big improvements - in fact.
All things are relative, one to another, so (my term) " favourite ", should not suprise you.
Sadly, even favourites begin to grow old, as indeed we do, age does weary them, and it is clear the years do condemn.
Is it therefore, a pox on us too, simpy because we grow old ?
No, I feel sure that was not (what you) meant at all.
Had the OBO evolved for a few more generations - then they should have become quite acceptable.
They would never have been "easy" ships though, as more work and thought, was required, compared with some other types of vessel.
I concluded the best way to neglect and abuse an OBO, was to use her as a tanker, for several voyages, and then change to Bulk. ( and vice versa of course.) They would suffer immensely from that, to the point that they may not recover.
On the other hand, alternate wet to dry every voyage, and they would not present so many problems. (ie use them in the way they were designed for.)
They required much in the way of routine maintenance, which translates to additional Manpower, - and they never really got that either.
Hauling sea water ballast from Europe to the Persian Gulf - never made much economic sense to me - but many ships did it, and I suppose, there are many that still do, despite the horrific fuel costs of today - let alone tomorrow.


End of Copy and Paste.

I believe to this day that with modern construction and further developement of the Team Ship OBO's design -- then they could become very usefull vessels indeed, perhaps even essential - looking ahead.
Twin hatches ie 1 hold Port/1 hold Stbd with a centre line Fore and Aft subdivision, and a double skin hull, would be the start of an OBO - "fit for heaven" in my view."
They should not be condemned outright as they have appeared to have been, but rather they should be further developed and allowed to evolve.
BUT there is no place on an OBO for a lazy bast*rd, nor any so called professors, nor the likes. Good workers are required, which includes the Master and Chief Engineer - they have to pull their weight also, and so often in the past, they have not.
Emoluments to officers and crew - well they are three ships in one, so wages should be at least double that of dry bulker only, or tanker only, sea staff.
They are hard working ships and always will be - but why spend vast sums of money carting sea water ballast for half a vessels life.
It doesn't make sense to me. Even less so looking forward.
They can be made to be good ships - but it will take excellent ships staff to operate them - Far above average - for sure.
Not rocket scientists - just sound rational, reasonable, ordinary guys - endowed with above average common sense, and of course willing and enthusiastic - which attribute will necessitate real recognition of an employers duty of care toward them.
Abuse and neglect them, and your OBO will soon fall apart, as indeed it should do, under such cir***stances.


Edit: To be classified by DNV only - I reckon.
 
#514 ·
Is there anybody on the Site who sailed on the Naess Parkgate in April 1968 when I believe she was the vessel I visited at the Botlek to have a look at a crack repair which was done with a Rivetted Doubler right across the Deck along with the strengthening of the Hatch coaming aft corner.
R651400, he's back!
 
#515 ·
I would agree entirely with OM's conjecture in #518 that the OBO (and indeed PROBO) design should have been allowed to develop, as with modern technologies and experiences most of the problems should be solvable - although the design of the ship now would probably bear the same resemblance to the original concept as the Wright Flyer bears to the A380.

Joking aside though, the main problem appears to have been the design and maintenance of the hatch sealing arrangements, with the short life of any elastomer subjected to this type of usage and cargo. Starting with a clean sheet I would be tempted by a purging labrynth type arrangement.

One thing is sure though, any class or Port State system would have to be quite ruthless in inspection and in the case of class withdrawal of the notation that enabled the carriage of liquid cargoes if the seal integrity was in doubt. As was alluded to earlier however, the problems really manifest themselves once the ship begins to age and is perhaps under its third or fourth owner who, shall we say, may not be as fastidious or technically competent as the original owner.
 
#516 ·
Is there anybody on the Site who sailed on the Naess Parkgate in April 1968 when I believe she was the vessel I visited at the Botlek to have a look at a crack repair which was done with a Rivetted Doubler right across the Deck along with the strengthening of the Hatch coaming aft corner.
Didn't the Jersey Bridge also crack across the deck? I seem to recall that they brought her back to port with some kind of lashing around the neighbouring hatch combings. It would have been around 1968 or 1969.

Regards
Doug
 
#519 ·
I was on Jersey Bridge Aug 68 to May 69 and she hadn't cracked anywhere at that time.

It must have been late 69 onwards, and I think the crack made it from sheerstrake to sheerstrake.

I don't think the longitudinals went though, just the plating.

I do recall seeing/hearing that they used the mooring winch wires to try and hold her together, and that they did try drilling the deck.

I think she was in ballast, and had to return to port, where she was repaired.

She was renamed Oinoussian Mother and went on for several years afterwards.

Denholm News always carried a version of any incidents/accidents, and there was nothing particularly secretive about them.

This leads me to believe that this mythical 'secret grounding' allegedly suffered by the Parkgate is just that.

It would have been reported either by the Denholm News itself, or by some of the crew on board at the time, and I never heard about it, nor heard from anyone who had heard about it, though I sailed with several who were on her, and in fact visited her in drydock in Lisbon. Routine docking I may add.

From what I remember she had an uneventful life with Denholm from 1968 to 1978, broken by her year with BHP, who didn't get to grips with her and are still wondering why not.

B/R
 
#521 ·
Malky and Roddy

Re your posts 526 and 527

All my knowledge on the Parkgate is rather second hand and you must realise that I am holding back on some of the stories that I have heard for obvious reasons.

The scuttlebutt was that after the inspection of the Parkgate by BHP seagoing staff their combined opinion was charter the other ships but not her! I am thinking they must have been overruled by the BHP shore side wallahs.!!! Did someone mention Buyer Beware?

Among all the other problems there was severe corrosion in the ballast tanks and in the ME piston cooling system (no water treatment). All the rotary exhaust valves were rooted. The misalignment of the ME to the tail shaft must have happened prior to the ER being flooded. Are you sure is was not the same event?. One of our C/E during the inspection spotted a hardwood peg in the ER side tailshaft telltail hole and it had been spray painted over after the ER flooding! He removed it and a lovely flow of sea water under pressure jetted out. This C/E then had heated words with your Super I am told.

After the big repair job in Singapore her first loading port was in South America and she had problems pumping out the ballast there and I believe a bulkhead in the ballasts tanks had given away.

regards

Alastair
 
#522 ·
Myself and mostly likely Roddy are just saying that we and no one we knew in Denholm new about the Parkgate and her alleged troubles. She did not have a good name as far as engineers were concerned.
I did not care for RD Sulzers having had a couple of big flash fires to do with exhaust valve oil leaks.
Major troubles on ships very quickly got around the fleet when it was all looked after from Glasgow, not the case with Foreign flagged vessels however, managed from elswhere.
I never saw it, I wasn't there, you have no witnesses and you can't prove it!!!
Joking

regards

Malky
 
#524 · (Edited)
Malky

Back then I didnt, but now I realise sitting here retired that I was really lucky to have gained experience sailing with all these weird and run down diesel engines in the 60's. I remember the sulzer rep always blamed Clark Sulzer for all our RD problems (what about the flame rings dropping in). When I got my second's motor ticket in 68, I was in great demand as all the liner companies seemed to be using heaps of dispensation 2/E then. With me having a ticket then I was then having trouble getting bloody leave!

I was single then and addicted to sailboat racing, all I wanted to do was to work hard for say 9 months then go racing my own boat and also crewing on the big ones in the 3 summer months. I also used to do yacht deliveries around Scotland (all for free and via the Caledonia canal and Crinan canal). Sir James Millar was going to restore the coal burning steam up and downer clyde puffer the Vital Spark in Edinburgh and needed a volunteer engineer to bring her from Ayr round to Granton. Yes, we were to get free coal from the NCB anywhere in Scotland. It was September and I was skint and I had to get back to sea, I have always always regretted missing out on my wee trip on that 'clyde puffer'. Her name was changed to the 'Auld Reakie' ( the nick name for Edinburgh). I also declined a paying job as bosun engineer on the Aberdeen based sail training ship the Sir Robert Gordon. This was when the oil industry boom was just starting up there and I feel we both might have done alright if we had moved up there then.

My system of resigning my job in late spring and finding another company in September was great but of course I used to get all the weird ships with the one off type tired ME burning HFO. The dispensation 2/E had to have previous sea time on the engine he was to sail with. I was young and nothing phased me and I gained one heap of experience doing the rounds of the various liner companies.

My favorite London ship owner will always be Furnace Ship Management when they owned a heap of other shipping companies. They were the only UK company that appreciated the hard work and effort that I put in and yes they even thanked me. In them days it was all 12 hours a day with us only doing 8 hours a day at the weekend.

I was having a wee sit down in my cabin after breakfast and the old man knocked on my door and came in. He said “em'em' Second, what are you going to do about the C/E drinking habits” I said “ Captain I will do a deal with you, Could you possibly look after the chief and I will look after your engines as I just cannot do both” He turned round and left my cabin and never said a word. The C/E was actually alright but he had a real hard time during WW2 in the RN and was graded a war hero. The raid on the secret Norwegian heavy water plant (remember the movie). Every time I reported to him that I have a problem he used to lock himself in his cabin with two cases of beer. I was that stupid , I thought that alcholics only drank whisky and not beer!

When I married Meg and we decided to settle in Aus I applied for a BHP job that was advertised in UK papers for motor men with tickets and experience. I went all the way down to London for an interview only to be blasted by the BHP London manager for telling porkies in the application form. You did not tell us your were blind in one eye, you cannot work in the steel works with only one eye. I said that I will be at sea, not in the steel works and I filled the form correctly as I have normal sight, I am not colour blind and I do not need glasses of any kind. He said I will put it through to the shipping office in Newcastle but you will not get a job I can tell you. I would not have minded but he was sitting there with one arm missing. I was thinking of asking him what kind of Kangaroo ripped his arm off but luckily I didn’t as they hired me.

I think it was BHP shipping reading my resume with all the Doxford, Sulzer and B&W experience. I went from 2/E to 4/E on the new Iron Endeavour with a J type doxford engine I got double the pay and double the leave and had no responsibility. It was like being on holiday I can tell you.

Regards

Alastair
 
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