Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads - Page 13 - Ships Nostalgia
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Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads

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  #301  
Old 17th January 2012, 05:04
RHP RHP is offline  
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Originally Posted by Jacktar1 View Post
I fully agree.....sound advice..........
Agree 100% the company are making terrible statements even before all the facts have been assembled and heard in the enquiry. They're throwing him to the dogs to ensure their image isn't tarnished and bookings lost.

If the rumours of the captain changing course to wave to friends on the island are true (farce..) then the fellow deserves 10 years minimum for teh poor souls who have lost their lifes but I shall let the judge decide and not the company nor media.
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  #302  
Old 17th January 2012, 06:19
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Enough to listen to "commandante" Schettino TV interview (an he really got himself interviewed, in the circumstances!) to see that he was a guy from some second class "maritime-cabaret". Lock him-up and forget. Pity for all those lost due to his macho-incurred incompetence.
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  #303  
Old 17th January 2012, 08:04
jactaa jactaa is offline  
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No chance of 'smelling' the shore in these huge, glass encased wheelhouses. Do any windows open ?
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  #304  
Old 17th January 2012, 08:13
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but I shall let the judge decide and not the company nor media.
From what I just saw on the TV news the prosecutor has already made up his mind......
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  #305  
Old 17th January 2012, 08:17
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The latest BBC news report shows a ships course trace produced by Lloyds List (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16587849)

This clearly shows that the ship did indeed move a long way off its normal course, and it doesn't look like the sort of course alteration I would have expected from any mechanical breakdown. I was not a deck officer, so I claim no expertise, but it does look to me like a deliberate and somewhat reckless alteration.
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  #306  
Old 17th January 2012, 08:32
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I think Costa Cruises is doing an immediate 'damage limitation' exercise to prevent wholesale lack of confidence in their operation. If they can convince the world that this was a 'rogue captain' - then they may have averted a collapse of the company and losses to shareholders.
[Note: I don't condone the above action in any way - should it prove correct]

(Edit - I've just seen that RHP has basically said the same as above)

Interesting note about the cabin doors locking shut on loss of power - I know most of these vessels use the same swipe cards for purchases and cabin door access - but there is no way on earth that Class would allow this regime, and I'd be stunned if the system had been set up thus - and had been 'missed' for 7 years.

If it is shown that the cause of the foundering was due to a too-close approach to the shore - then I'm afraid the term is:

RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT (of 4000 persons).

Al
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  #307  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:22
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Originally Posted by Blackal View Post
I think Costa Cruises is doing an immediate 'damage limitation' exercise to prevent wholesale lack of confidence in their operation. If they can convince the world that this was a 'rogue captain' - then they may have averted a collapse of the company and losses to shareholders.
[Note: I don't condone the above action in any way - should it prove correct]

(Edit - I've just seen that RHP has basically said the same as above)

Interesting note about the cabin doors locking shut on loss of power - I know most of these vessels use the same swipe cards for purchases and cabin door access - but there is no way on earth that Class would allow this regime, and I'd be stunned if the system had been set up thus - and had been 'missed' for 7 years.

If it is shown that the cause of the foundering was due to a too-close approach to the shore - then I'm afraid the term is:

RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT (of 4000 persons).

Al
I've just reread the previous posts that I wrote. My only point is that the ship should not have been there. I did believe that she had tried to navigate that small channel south of the port. Thank goodness that appears to be incorrect but she was, still, too close.
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  #308  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:31
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Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
Like the captain of the aircraft that crashed in the Hudson River New York, he stayed until everyone was safe.
The original point that was being made is that aircraft pilots, whatever they have done, are not usually arrested and stuck in a cell. It was not about whether the captain should remain on board. The captain should remain on board until he can no longer usefully assist in the evacuation, as the Hudson River pilot did.
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  #309  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:33
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...and to think you were making some fairly good points but then the truth comes out, who on here are going to believe anything you write after announcing that you are / were a journalist. Maybe Pat will if you say you worked for the Guardian or Sparkie if you worked for the Mail.
Unwarranted personal attack against 3 members and against forum rules.

I would request that mods take appropriate action.
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  #310  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:38
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Did the owner say on TV that the company condoned passing 500 metres from the island? when it passed last year. This would be 350 metres from the rock which is giving about 2 cables clearance. Is this common practice on these cruise ship,to pass so close? or was it a one off.
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  #311  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:46
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Did the owner say on TV that the company condoned passing 500 metres from the island? when it passed last year. This would be 350 metres from the rock which is giving about 2 cables clearance. Is this common practice on these cruise ship,to pass so close? or was it a one off.
**IF** the company did give permission for that a year back that could be used in the master's defence and could bite the owners on the bum....
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  #312  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:52
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**IF** the company did give permission for that a year back that could be used in the master's defence and could bite the owners on the bum....
As you say 'IF' it was given and I was the Captain I would certainly use it in my defence.

However, I don't think it would absolve the Master of his ultimate responsibility for the safety of the vessel
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  #313  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:59
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Cabin doors open manually from the inside, by card from the outside.
On lifeboat drill....Princess Cruises (Australia) have emergency drill before sailing on the first day. So by the time the ship has departed everyone knows where to muster, how to put on the lifejacket, what the sound signals are and how to open the watertight doors to pass through if they have been closed.
If watertight doors were normally closed at sea it would be very inconvenient for passengers and crew to move around.
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  #314  
Old 17th January 2012, 09:59
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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Unwarranted personal attack against 3 members and against forum rules.

I would request that mods take appropriate action.
Oh no, R831814, you've just owned up to reading the Florida Think Tank bulletins .... Can you come back from this lapse?

Just curious as it hasn't been mentioned anywhere, was there a Pilot on board?

John T
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  #315  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:18
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was there a Pilot on board?

John T
What... like the Lermontov had......??
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  #316  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:19
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As you say 'IF' it was given and I was the Captain I would certainly use it in my defence.

However, I don't think it would absolve the Master of his ultimate responsibility for the safety of the vessel
No it wouldn't absolve him but it could bite them....
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  #317  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:21
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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What... like the Lermontov had......??
... And didn't he do well!

John T
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  #318  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:23
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lets not forget the 'Golden Gate Sun' .....
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  #319  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:25
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No it wouldn't absolve him but it could bite them....
Yes, totally agree. I'm not sure if the laws which came into force after the 'Herald' tragedy re Corporate responsibility are similar in Italian law?

This has the potential to be the 9/11 of the cruise industry just as 9/11 was to the airline industry.
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  #320  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:29
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Oh no, R831814, you've just owned up to reading the Florida Think Tank bulletins .... Can you come back from this lapse?

John T
JT. You will have to forgive me as I don't get out much these days and have no idea what you are talking about

However, if you think its a good idea that I come back then I will give it serious thought.

Never one to spurn a good idea.
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  #321  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:35
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Originally Posted by Iangb View Post
.... (Courtesey of Sky News).
"And Clarence Mitchell, who is representing Costa Cruises, said: "Mr Foschi confirmed the captain had been approaching the island of Giglio to 'make a salute' ...
The same Clarence Mitchell who was the spokesperson for the McCann's ?

Oh, and BTW, it was Carnival Cruises who talked about the hit to their profits, not Costa.

Last edited by andysk; 17th January 2012 at 10:39..
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  #322  
Old 17th January 2012, 10:45
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Costa Concordia

In the sixties we avoided those ships with the distinctive ugly yellow flues like the plague (even though we had an ugly blue one !!)
One OM told me they were driven by 'wreckless '(???!!!) drivers.
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  #323  
Old 17th January 2012, 11:40
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Originally Posted by Blackal View Post
Interesting note about the cabin doors locking shut on loss of power - I know most of these vessels use the same swipe cards for purchases and cabin door access - but there is no way on earth that Class would allow this regime, and I'd be stunned if the system had been set up thus - and had been 'missed' for 7 years.

RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT (of 4000 persons).

Al


The locks on the doors are battery powered. You need the swipe card to enter. If inside you do not need any card or whatever to exit the cabin. That part is OK.

On QM2 two years ago it took the Front Office almost two hours to get me into my cabin after the batteries in the door failed. Was not impressed with that.

Another fault... on the Princess ship that ssuffered a balcony fire a couple of years ago it was found that the heat cooked the wiring in the doors and after the fire paassengers could not gain access to the cabins.

Of course, are the above any worse than trying to open an old conventional door lock without the key?!!!!
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  #324  
Old 17th January 2012, 12:10
CAPTAIN JEREMY CAPTAIN JEREMY is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackal View Post
I think Costa Cruises is doing an immediate 'damage limitation' exercise to prevent wholesale lack of confidence in their operation. If they can convince the world that this was a 'rogue captain' - then they may have averted a collapse of the company and losses to shareholders.
[Note: I don't condone the above action in any way - should it prove correct]

(Edit - I've just seen that RHP has basically said the same as above)

Interesting note about the cabin doors locking shut on loss of power - I know most of these vessels use the same swipe cards for purchases and cabin door access - but there is no way on earth that Class would allow this regime, and I'd be stunned if the system had been set up thus - and had been 'missed' for 7 years.

If it is shown that the cause of the foundering was due to a too-close approach to the shore - then I'm afraid the term is:

RECKLESS ENDANGERMENT (of 4000 persons).

Al
Although the cabin doors use an encoded "key card" to open from the outside, they have a regular handle on the inside which operates without the need for any power. The locks themselves have their own power source, as in a battery. There is also provision for the use of a "metal" master key in emergencies. There should be no one trapped inside the cabin due to a power failure, however the possibility might be there that people cannot get into the cabin to collect their life jackets.
The cabin staff and evacuation staff tend to have master key cards while the "metal" keys are few and far between, as they do not register on the computerised access monitoring system.
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  #325  
Old 17th January 2012, 12:38
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In the sixties we avoided those ships with the distinctive ugly yellow flues like the plague (even though we had an ugly blue one !!)

Cheddar - Thread drift and inconsequential in the grand scheme of things I know, but the difference is that your vertical blue flues looked absolutely right on the ships in question, whilst the vertical yellow funnels never look quite right with the lines of the current Costa vessels - all bar one.

Jack
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