Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads - Page 25 - Ships Nostalgia
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Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads

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  #601  
Old 20th January 2012, 19:13
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A lot of arguement could have been avioded if some people had started with the words "If the Captain is found guilty" Then the debate could continue with all points of view expressed, and no arguement about his guilt or not.
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  #602  
Old 20th January 2012, 19:20
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I can see a rerun of the Californian incident, instead of Lordites and Anti Lordites we will have Schettinoites and Anti Schettinoites.

Who's going to take the part of Leslie Harrison I wonder?
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  #603  
Old 20th January 2012, 19:44
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[QUOTE=Stephen J. Card;568521]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roger View Post

Hi Derek,

try this calculation.....

LENGTH 290 M.... should be WATERLINE length and not LOA... but will use the figure you give....

BEAM 35.5

DRAUGHT 8.2

L x B x D = 84,419

x block coeff. 0.6

= 50,651 cub m.

x Rel Density SW 1.025

= 51,918


The actual figure given for the vessel is 51,350 so the block coeff would seem to be right.

I agree that it seems low but that is about usual for passenger ships.

The figure I gave for displacement is available on the internet


I think if she goes slips off the edge she will do one of two things... neither of them good!

One is that she will sslide off and go straight to the bottom... all of her watertight compartments would be flooded by now... from water above the freeboard deck.... or if by ssome chance they were sstill dry the weight of water in the superstructure would cause her to capsize completely... she might float... but upside down!

I think if the salvors try to pull her upright she might slide off the ledge.

Back to the drawing board!

Stephen
Thanks for the correction Stephen ; waterline of course . If we use 250 m for the WL this gives us a block of .7 using the displacement of 51350 which makes more sence . In fact we would also have to allow for the submerged forward appendage ( bulb ) which is forward of the WL which will again increase the coefficient up to perhaps .75 .

Wish we could find a GA and some more information on the damage .

Regards Derek
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  #604  
Old 20th January 2012, 19:45
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The VDR is ashore - the answers are on it. No point in all these 'expert' comments which have been made by:

A: folks that have left the sea
B: folks that have never sailed Master of a ship of this size
C: folks that have never sailed.

As a serving Master for the last 15 years on VLCC's I am rather disgusted by some of the comments and the 'expert' facts. For a fact all ships must have steering in emergency conditions, e.g total engine room flooding - that be why we have the emergency genny outside the ER. I could go on but I see no point, the 'experts' will still spout silly stuff.
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  #605  
Old 20th January 2012, 21:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sparkie2182 View Post
When it comes to the topic of "snide comments"........perhaps you will look back through your posts and count the number of such comments ...
I suggest you do the same Sparkie as you have made several on different threads. If it is any consolation, you are not alone in this.

As for the Captain being an 'idiot', much as I have tried to find some sympathy for him; if he wasn't an 'idiot' beforehand, he has been since.
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  #606  
Old 20th January 2012, 21:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjmt5r View Post
The VDR is ashore - the answers are on it. No point in all these 'expert' comments which have been made by:

A: folks that have left the sea
B: folks that have never sailed Master of a ship of this size
C: folks that have never sailed.

As a serving Master for the last 15 years on VLCC's I am rather disgusted by some of the comments and the 'expert' facts. For a fact all ships must have steering in emergency conditions, e.g total engine room flooding - that be why we have the emergency genny outside the ER. I could go on but I see no point, the 'experts' will still spout silly stuff.
There seems to be some confusion as to her propulsion ; several have suggest i pods ; I have seen that she has two fixed props and a rudder . She would of course have emergency steering ( normally one hydraulic unit of two fitted ) from the emergency alternators . I would suggest that her emergency power would be of a large order being a passenger vessel . It would be most probable that the emergency power could be swiched to the main propuulsion and perhaps thrusters should the master deem it necessary in an emergency .

As an aside please allow me to welcome you to the site ; I hope you will enjoy all it has to offer .
Regards Derek
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  #607  
Old 20th January 2012, 21:36
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This summary of the 'Carnival Splendor' ER fire and resulting loss of all power is worth a look. 'C. Splendor' has a very similar propulsion system and layout to 'Costa Concordia's.
http://www.amem.at/pdf/AMEM_Communic...0_Carnival.pdf
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  #608  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:09
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaguar06 View Post
I had in mind a can of Spam, but I see we're on the same track.
It looks like a piece of bilge keel - which did what it is designed to do and peeled away, usually they are only intermittently welded.
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  #609  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:19
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[QUOTE=nav;568401]Re: http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ne...+Concordia.wmv






114,000 tonnes is the grt or gross registered tonnage which is the volume of the ship expressed in tonnes of fresh water, in reality she weighs around 10,000 tonnes or her displacement which is the amount of seawater displaced by the ship when empty excluding cargo, fuel, water etc although I think it does include, traditionally, the weight of the master on the bridge although this may have been irrelevant in this case.

Not so - a gross register ton is one hundred cubic feet.
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  #610  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:20
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If she comes off the rocks or begins to break away what is the depth under her?

Will she be a total loss?

Anyone hazard a guess as to her eventual fate?

BW

J
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  #611  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:26
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
A propos of nothing much, I wrote a column in "Lloyd's List" for ten years. I stopped, a few years ago, because I suspected that nobody was reading it, but whilst I was doing it I did get annoyed by people in the industry patronising me because I was "just a journalist".
Andrew, I read it faithfully as long as I could afford to buy a LLoyd's List!

B/R
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  #612  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:39
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[QUOTE=randcmackenzie;568597]
Quote:
Originally Posted by nav View Post
Re: http://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/ne...+Concordia.wmv






114,000 tonnes is the grt or gross registered tonnage which is the volume of the ship expressed in tonnes of fresh water, in reality she weighs around 10,000 tonnes or her displacement which is the amount of seawater displaced by the ship when empty excluding cargo, fuel, water etc although I think it does include, traditionally, the weight of the master on the bridge although this may have been irrelevant in this case.

Not so - a gross register ton is one hundred cubic feet.
Thank-you randc, I stand corrected. I was trying to keep it simple and explain that the actual tonnage was very different to the grt normally quoted which is more important in understanding the forces involved. I misread the 10000 figure, not a good day on that post.

Agree your comments on Lloyds List, it was a great source of information on both shipping and aircraft losses.
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  #613  
Old 20th January 2012, 22:40
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Ring Bolting

Given the confusion over POB, and the Moldovan lady who features on neither crew or passenger list, is ring bolting alive and well on cruise ships?

Do the POB lists correctly reflect everyone on board?
It would seem that with a weekly round trip girl friends or others could very easily be on board for a jolly.

After all, how do you check for stowaways among 4,500 people?

B/R
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  #614  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:03
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Thank you for your kind words! Cheered me up no end!

I thought the Moldovan damsel had bought a ticket and joined the ship at Civitaveccia?

I'm sure the ship is a total loss.

I've been told that the total sum insured is US$600M; don't know if that is correct or if it includes passage money but for the sake of argument let's assume that it is and that the passage money is separate.

Let's also assume, pretty safely, that ITC 1/10/83 apply and that with the passage money a separate insurance we have an 80/20 all risks / IV split on US$600M so we have US$480 H&M and US$120M IV on TLO terms.

How easy will it be to get the ship refloated and repaired for US$480M?

I think we can say at once - not easy at all! A lot of the ship's value is in her plant and machinery and in her outfitting - all wrecked..

Since the construction of a cruise ship is a matter of putting sub-assemblies together in the right order, we can see that it is cheaper to build a new one than to repair one as badly damaged as this one.

So I expect that Notice of Abandonment will be tendered and rejected and the pay out made leaving the P&I Club or clubs (it seems Standard and Steamship both have an involvement) to contract for the wreck removal.

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 20th January 2012 at 23:05..
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  #615  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:12
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Just come across this close-up shot of the hull damage which I had not seen before. Can someone please confirm if this is actually a piece of embedded rock as the white object (what is this ?) appears to be 'inside' it as though it is a piece of 'rolled back' steel. Do tell me if I need a new pair of specs !

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi...ock_impact.jpg
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  #616  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:13
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B/R
BBC News this evening mentioned that Costa Lines had confirmed that the "Moldavian lady" was indeed on the passenger list.

As for stowaway checks, while I don't know about Italian cruise ships, it would appear to be very difficult to illicitly board P&O ships. Crew members suffer the same scrutiny in the adjacent shore terminals, as pax, before having their ID card incorporating photograph, sighted at the foot of the gangway and then electronically scanned at the head of the "gangway". In effect stowaway checks have been superceded by anti-terrorist precautions policed by an onboard dedicated security department

Tom
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  #617  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:14
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Looking at her wreck I think she will never float or sail again
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  #618  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:17
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According to reports its a big piece of the rock she hit. Blow up the photo and you can see into the engine room.
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  #619  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:17
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On the insurance question Lloydslist is predicting $US600-800mil.
Others are saying : http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...80F19620120116
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  #620  
Old 20th January 2012, 23:47
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Originally Posted by jmcg View Post
If she comes off the rocks or begins to break away what is the depth under her?
While I don't have 15 years seatime as master of a VLCC I think I can safely say that it gets to 50 metres within about 100 metres from the shore so it drops away pretty quick but not as extreme as in the Chilean channels frinstance....
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  #621  
Old 21st January 2012, 00:25
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While I don't have 15 years seatime as master of a VLCC I think I can safely say that it gets to 50 metres within about 100 metres from the shore so it drops away pretty quick but not as extreme as in the Chilean channels frinstance....
There's even an exclamation mark on the chart, well off where she Hit. I wonder what that means?
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  #622  
Old 21st January 2012, 00:26
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Originally Posted by stein View Post
Nothing to do with the Costa Concordia, but something to do with the rush to judgement; here is the thread on Dominique Strauss-Kahn: https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/showth...e+Strauss-Kahn
Indeed! DSK is as pure as the driven snow.
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  #623  
Old 21st January 2012, 00:39
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There's even an exclamation mark on the chart, well off where she Hit. I wonder what that means?
It also says no anchoring... no fishing.....
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  #624  
Old 21st January 2012, 00:45
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Originally Posted by jmcg View Post
If she comes off the rocks or begins to break away what is the depth under her?

Will she be a total loss?

Anyone hazard a guess as to her eventual fate?

BW

J
Total loss would be my bet, there will be an aweful lot of water damage, and structural as well of course, after this time I should think. As for the depth under her, I think it will always be zero. Like a Tenants can, strong as hell until it's opened, then it can be very easily bent, which is what's happened to this ship.
Just my 'umble opinion of course.
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  #625  
Old 21st January 2012, 01:12
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Still nobody has mentioned the engineers who would have had an immediate downflood into the engine room / diesel generator room in a matter of seconds .
Not a lot here about the still missing passengers and crew .

Mostly about the Captain and some of his mates .

Still little about the Staff Captain who did stay on board and evacuated most of the souls . The story has yet to unfold .
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