American Cargo Ship ‘El Faro’ Missing with 33 Crew - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
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American Cargo Ship ‘El Faro’ Missing with 33 Crew

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  #26  
Old 3rd October 2015, 21:11
Klaatu83 Klaatu83 is offline  
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Originally Posted by capnfab View Post
Wally..
If El Faro is indeed lost, I can't help but think of the parallels to another old US flagged ship that went down, Marine Electric.
Marine Electric was sent to sea in an unseaworthy condition, not saying El Faro is/was unseaworthy, as Marine Transport Lines was building a replacement vessel, the Energy Independence.
TOTE/Sea Star is also building replacement ships for the El Faro and El Yunque.
This is gut wrenching.
I remember the loss of the Marine Electric well. Like El Faro she was 40-years-old, and was a bulk carrier converted from a T2 tanker. It also reminds me of another old ship that was lost under similar circumstances: the Poet. In 1980 the Poet sailed from Philadelphia into a particularly bad storm and was simply never heard of again. Nobody ever did find out exactly what happened. The Poet also was 40-years-old and, like the Marine Electric, had been converted into a bulk carrier, only in the case of the Poet it was from a WW-II troop transport.
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  #27  
Old 3rd October 2015, 21:23
capnfab capnfab is offline  
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Close room? In that area... not much to go anywhere unless you can get over and into the Atlantic.

A few photos.... a lot of openings on the shell side? How was she closed up?

Twin screws or single?


Stephen
Mr. Card,

She is single screw, 28 or 30 thousand horsepower.

The openings around the stern were not capable of being closed, this was pretty much an open deck where the truck trailers were loaded into.
Along the side, there are two openings for the shore side ramps. As I remember sailing in these class of ships, there were hydraulic, watertight doors that were closed before going to sea. Whether or not she retained these, I do not know.
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  #28  
Old 3rd October 2015, 21:35
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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Gort,
First the Marine Electric, she was converted and was a liquid sulfur carrier, I worked as 1st Eng on the S/S Louisiana Brimstone, (Freeport Sulfur Co.) another T-2, The Marine Electric , supposedly went down off of Miami. And had left from Port Sulfur, La.
As far as the S/S Poet goes....it was originally the PortMar, of Bethlem s Steel.
I was 2nd Eng on the Mary, ex S/S MaryMar....originally built as a troop ship, Gen. John R. Brook.....I think.....
These Troop ships "under construction" were converted after WWII. to carry steel to Portland and logs/wood back to Baltimore.
There were other more advanced bulkers that Bethlehem Steel converted or used late '40's technology to run a cheaply fueled vessel, Originally BethFloor, BethTex, and BethOre. These ships had 2ea 1500lb Boilers, and 2 external reheaters, 3 turbines. HP. reheat. MP. reheat, LP turbine and then to condenser.
If anyone here on this forum wants to discuss the "Poet" sinking....message me..
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  #29  
Old 3rd October 2015, 21:45
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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When I sailed as C/E I used the USCG as my friend to keep the ship safe.
I had classmates that looked at the USCG as the enemy, and did their best to hide deficiencies from them.
I honestly doubt that either the Marine Electric, or El Faro, or the Poet, managed to sail without USCG certification....However El Faro's papers would be up at the end of this month....
Fuzz
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  #30  
Old 3rd October 2015, 21:55
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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Don't forget the manholes that allowed access from an upper deck to a lower one
I remember, as an engineer, walking across the roofs of brand new cars for PR! In order to check a bilge suction....!
Fuzz
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  #31  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:00
capnfab capnfab is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Klaatu83 View Post
I remember the loss of the Marine Electric well. Like El Faro she was 40-years-old, and was a bulk carrier converted from a T2 tanker. It also reminds me of another old ship that was lost under similar circumstances: the Poet. In 1980 the Poet sailed from Philadelphia into a particularly bad storm and was simply never heard of again. Nobody ever did find out exactly what happened. The Poet also was 40-years-old and, like the Marine Electric, had been converted into a bulk carrier, only in the case of the Poet it was from a WW-II troop transport.
I was just breaking into this business when these ships were making the front page of every paper in the country.
Saw Marine Electric in Baltimore a couple of times loading coal. Even for a kid that didn't know anything, I knew she looked rough.
Poet's sister, Penny, loaded grain at Port Covington and I almost made an ordinary's job on there. Kind of glad I didn't, because she limped into Hamilton, Bermuda (I think) with a severe list.
Like many guessing how a ship ultimately meets her demise, I suspect Poet busted out her shell plating after the grain got wet.
She probably went down like a rock.
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  #32  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:09
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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Openings on the Stern and Main deck....by definition the lower trailer deck is the main, thus watertight deck...thus the openings in the stern, and sides, are inconsequential. one time we carried a Circus and had Elephants chained back there....
Now there is a hatch that opens to the Engine Room, overhead of us folks in the basement!
Fuzz
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  #33  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:15
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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Penny, Penn Mar
Did you ever enter the engine room? These were (electrically) DC Ships?
I have a theory, however ccannot find anyone to debate me on the cause if the sinking.
Fuzz
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  #34  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:17
capnfab capnfab is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyGolfito View Post
Penny, Penn Mar
Did you ever enter the engine room? These were (electrically) DC Ships?
I have a theory, however ccannot find anyone to debate me on the cause if the sinking.
Fuzz
Come on, out with it. Tell us about Poet. I'm sure we would enjoy reading it.
Never made it below on Penny.
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  #35  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:33
johnvvc johnvvc is offline  
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Sinking of the Marine Electric...

Apparently from the History Channel:-

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uFeZTAjfNPY
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  #36  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:36
FuzzyGolfito FuzzyGolfito is offline  
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OK,
On the Beth Steel,Oremar ships that were like the Penmar, Marymar, Portmar!
The Poet was the Portmar...carrying grain from Philadelphia and exited the Delaware bay, never to be heard from again!
As a former Engineer from a sister ship S/S Mary, C-4 extraordinary, the throttle flat was a bit unusual, and the main switchboard was above and attached to the Fwd ER Blkhd. From the days when this ship was being designed as a trooper, there was/is an escape trunk installed into the FW ER Bhd.. "IF" someone on Deck did bot shut the watertight door on the main deck, center of the house. There was a door above the Main Swuiitchboard, that "IF" open would allow a nice breeze on the throttle flat. And "If" the folks in the ER were enjoying the breeze of this screw up. The Poet would have been loaded at the marks, or a calculation from Philly to the Atlantic.
What more can I say, a sea hits the house on a vessel with the lowest possible freeboard. And if the escape trunk door is open, sea comes down the escape trunk, if it misses the Main Switchboard, it can still flood the main condensate pumps.
I'm just a dumb retired Marine Engineer.....
Fuzz

Last edited by FuzzyGolfito; 3rd October 2015 at 22:44..
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  #37  
Old 3rd October 2015, 22:57
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John Timmins John Timmins is offline  
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Puerto Rico 561732/IMO 7395351. Steel single screw vehicle (trailer) carrier. Launched 1 November 1974 at Chester, Pennsylvania, by the Sun SB & DD Co as hull no. 670 for the Puerto Rico Maritime Shipping Authority, San Juan, PR. 653.4 x 92.8 x 34.9; 14770 gt, 8928 nt. Two cylinder (HP/LP) steam turbine, built 1975 by General Electric Company, 30000 shp; twin water tube boilers, 27690 sq ft heating surface, built 1975 by Babcock & Wilcox Company. Lengthened and new midbody 1993 by Alabama Shipyard, Inc., Mobile, Alabama: 736.8 x 92 x 42.1; 17527 gt, 11399 nt. Sold 1991 to Totem Trailer Express, Inc., Seattle, and renamed Northern Lights. Sold 2006 to Sea Star Line LLC, Jacksonville, Florida, and renamed El Faro.

Someone told me elsewhere that this was not one of the one boiler ships like the Bayamon and that pargraph backs that up.

There's probably not one seamen on this board that hasn't had that OH S**T feeling at least 3-4 times in their career.

Last edited by John Timmins; 3rd October 2015 at 23:12..
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  #38  
Old 3rd October 2015, 23:10
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John Timmins John Timmins is offline  
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This is the sister ship of the El Yunque,(ex Atlantic Spirit, and Matson's Kiamoku and Atlantic Bear....and possibly the Westward Venture
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  #39  
Old 3rd October 2015, 23:39
billshaver billshaver is offline  
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either way no one should have this happen to them...sad....was it avoidable not an issue ...luck of the draw...
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  #40  
Old 4th October 2015, 00:41
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From G Captain today 10-03-15

From G Captain today

Attached

EL_FAROa.jpg (76.5 KB)
Screen-Shot-2015-10-02-at-2.27.33-PM.jpg (24.2 KB)
Course.JPG (18.1 KB)

While laid up in Houston 2010

No recent news ...

Greg Hayden
Attached Images
File Type: jpg EL_FAROa.jpg (76.5 KB, 72 views)
File Type: jpg Screen-Shot-2015-10-02-at-2.27.33-PM.jpg (24.2 KB, 45 views)
File Type: jpg Course.JPG (18.1 KB, 41 views)
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  #41  
Old 4th October 2015, 01:02
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re: an escape trunk installed into the FW ER Bhd..

Yes that was refreshing having that breeze blow down when underway. My Oiler and I used it the other way one night standing on deck in Saigon.

We were slapping at the pesky mosquito's that were buzzing around our ears, when we both realized at the same time they were not mosquito's and dropped to the deck.

He made the hatch first and wormed over on his stomach then turned around on the ladder then I did the same thing.

Every 6,000 HP C4 I sailed the throttle was on the port side of the LP. The throttles and guarding valve grew out of the overhead with the brass wheels flat impossible to spin - had to hand over hand it.

The only 10,000 HP C4 I sailed had a vertical throttle board forward of the turbines. The chrome-plated throttles grew out of the panel board and could be spun easily.

On both the 6,000 and 10,000 C4's the switchboard was on the starboard outboard of the HP and on the forward bulkhead. The generators were outboard on the starboard aft of the switch board.

re: "There's probably not one seamen on this board that hasn't had that OH S**T feeling at least 3-4 times in their career."

Oh Yeah ... 'that's all she wrote' ....

Greg Hayden
Vista, CA USA
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  #42  
Old 4th October 2015, 03:35
litz litz is offline
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Per gCaptain, a single life ring has been found.

Doesn't much matter how big you are ... the hurricane is gonna win.

:-(
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  #43  
Old 4th October 2015, 08:48
howardws howardws is offline  
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Could someone give this Englishman a quick explanation of the Jones Act and it's effect on US shipping please?
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  #44  
Old 4th October 2015, 09:35
johnvvc johnvvc is offline  
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TOTE Maritime

http://elfaroincident.com/
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  #45  
Old 4th October 2015, 10:39
tsell tsell is offline
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Similar

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/10/03/us...icane-joaquin/

Taff
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  #46  
Old 4th October 2015, 12:29
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Ron Stringer Ron Stringer is offline
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Both those sites identified the vessel as a container ship but the Coast Guard press release also called it a roll-on, roll-off vessel. Seems like the journos go it right for once. Not the usual press favourite 'tanker' after all.
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  #47  
Old 4th October 2015, 14:07
Day Sailor Day Sailor is offline  
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I find it incredible that a ship of that size can go missing in this day and age with AIS, EPIRBs and all sorts of other initials. Not forgetting satellite phones.
I presume the lifeboat can still be launched with a thirty degree list?
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  #48  
Old 4th October 2015, 14:17
Michael Taylor Michael Taylor is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by howardws View Post
Could someone give this Englishman a quick explanation of the Jones Act and it's effect on US shipping please?
Simply put the Jones Act ensures that only American flagged tonnage may trade between US Ports. Overseas tonnage may load or discharge in those ports but cannot load at one and discharge same at others. The result is to protect the declining fleet but at a very increased cost.
The Act also ensures that vessels used on the coast are constructed in the US...however this is often taken to the point that part of the keel is manufactured here.
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  #49  
Old 4th October 2015, 14:22
steamer659 steamer659 is offline  
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Ok Gents- Let's keep this as accurate as possible- first off, the "EL FARO" is a single screw, 30,000 SHP Steamship with two B&W 900 psig Boilers. There is no "take home motor". These were ordinarily 25 knot Sea Speed vessels.

You're confusing the first two ships in the class "Bayamon" (Ex Eric Holtzer) and Ponce which were built with 1500 psig single boilers- Reheat Boilers. There were the remaining 11 or so SunShip Trailerships which were built between 1973 and 1980- I have sailed on three of them (Gulf Bear, Atlantic Bear, Bayamon)- The remaining three hulls (Waterman Ships) were converted to the Pless, Obregon and Kocak.

Slough- You have been Pilot (I assume) on two of the sisterships- Lurline and Matsonia...

What difference does it make that this vessel is 40 years old?

The ships built in order (I believe) are
Ponce De Leon (later Ponce),
Erik K Holtzer (Later Bayamon)
Lurline,
Matsonia,
El Taino (later Gulf Bear, Caguas, Kainomoku, El Morro),
Great Land,
Westward Venture,
Fortaleza,
Puerto Rico (Northern Lights, El Faro),
Atlantic Bear (Atlantic Spirit, El Yunque)
John B Waterman
Charles Carroll
Thomas Heyward

Let's keep the Crew and their Families, The Vessel- In Prayer...
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  #50  
Old 4th October 2015, 19:24
surfaceblow surfaceblow is offline  
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The last USCG update states that they have seen, Life Jackets, Life Rings, containers, and a oil sheen. So far it has not been confirmed that the items are from the El Far.

http://www.uscgnews.com/go/doc/4007/2607474/

Joe
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