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Warship, channel 4 10/04/17

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  #26  
Old 13th April 2017, 20:26
borderreiver borderreiver is offline  
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Originally Posted by sternchallis View Post
I joined a new Booth line ship with an MAN 4 stroke straight out of yhe shipyard, never seen the engine before (same as QE2 generators at conversion)neither had the Chief, 3rd, or 4th.
Did they send us on a course on the engine and all the unfamiliar makes of equipment.
No we were Engineers, knew how things should work,had the manuals and drawings of systems, we got the ship home safely despite bad workmanship on tne yards part.
On the return and maiden voyage had to change some exh valves deep sea. Chief said, 'do them on your watch in the morning'. So you just get on with it.
When we got into port had to change a head, no big deal. I had stripped enough 4 strokes during my apprenticeship, but not with heating rods for head studs.
All part of a days work.
TRAINING Whats that?
Bottom plates 9 am sharp with your romper suit on, drunk or sober, thats your training.

No doubt they were all wearing Marigolds were they?

Heaven help us.
I bet you served your time in engine building yard and can work all the workshop equipment unlike the engine cadets you get to day who have to be told everything do not like getting hands dirty.
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  #27  
Old 13th April 2017, 22:45
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Originally Posted by borderreiver View Post
I bet you served your time in engine building yard and can work all the workshop equipment unlike the engine cadets you get to day who have to be told everything do not like getting hands dirty.
Yes I served my apprenticeship repairing steam and diesel trawlers out of Hull.
A little bit of bench fitting but no machine shop work, but we did dismantle fuel injectors and overhaul the nozzles, something we could not do at sea due to vibration.
As an apprentice you didn't feel you were learning anything as there was a lot of watching initially, but once at sea it paid dividends, especialy when I was on a ship with two juniors from non marine engineering companies. Needless to say they never got very far in the company.
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  #28  
Old 14th April 2017, 11:20
slick slick is online now  
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All,
Why do we always knock the RN, generally speaking they tend to be a lot younger accordingly a lot less experienced.
I was in the RFA for 32 years and was in regular contact with all ranks in the RN they always presented themselves as knowledgeable in their specific fields.
The MN and RN are complimentary, many of the RN ships soldier long after their best before date.
I believe OCEAN is to be disposed of soon, so problem over....

yours aye,

slick
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  #29  
Old 14th April 2017, 12:12
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Its not knocking the RN, it wouldn't surprise me that the MN is a bit like that now, with all work done by shore squads, no time served fitters joining as J/Engs at 21. The ships all push button and if & when on watch, time spent watching dials in a air conditioned MCR, rather than continuously walking round the ER touching, listening, seeing and smelling, good old fashioned watchkeeping.

I assume a lad (or ladess) joins the RN at 18 and undergoes various tests to see if they are interested in being in the ER, then trained like an apprentice in shore workshops in bench and machine fitting and stripping machinery. At the same time taking academic courses to back up the 'hands on'. Then when sent to a ship much like a J/Eng learns the ropes of seaboard engineering.

Looking back most of the Engineers ranged between 21 and 30 until they got to the dizzy hieghts of 2nd or Chief Engineer or became professional 3rds much like the Tiffs in the RN, being the backbone of the ER.

Perhaps it is just the sign of the times with too many beancounters rather than Engineers running the show.
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  #30  
Old 14th April 2017, 12:34
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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If the lifting gear is available it would be foolish not to use it, gone are the days of lifting items slung under a Capstan Bar, again if available why work in the confines of the Engineroom when there is access to a larger space above, all for the sake of rigging a set of chain blocks.
As I have indicated before I was not aboard during this problem so I have no idea why the work required appeared to take so long, but from a former Chiefs view I would rather they took that extra time and got it right first time rather than rush the job and have a failure and have to do it again bearing in mind there were only two men who had worked on the Engine previously, they were still underway, they were under no Commercial pressure and they were not in the middle of a War Zone.
It may well be that the Engine had been overhauled by civilian Dockyard Workers before deployment which is usually the case and they made an error, who knows?
Having been in both Services I found the RN Training to be superb certainly when it came to Steam Turbines, certainly a plus when going for my 2nds.
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  #31  
Old 14th April 2017, 13:47
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
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An intriguing programme from a number of viewpoints but perhaps the next episode will balance things out.
I cannot see Their Lordships patting each other on the back at standeasy last Tuesday morning unless their aim was to try to embarrass the MOD to increase funding for recruitment, retention, training, logistics etc.
A few hard-arsed, cynical oul Chiefs commenting on this site is hardly their target audiance.
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  #32  
Old 15th April 2017, 15:33
jep1916 jep1916 is offline  
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I also watched this programme. Did anybody pick up that both Main Engines failed, possibly due to an electrical / electronic fault shortly after leaving Plymouth. HMS Ocean was drifting in the Channel while about a dozen people in the ECR were sat looking at each other, wondering what to do. Eventually, someone came up with the brilliant solution of simply re- starting the Main Engines. Nobody even thought of trying to trace the cause of why the engines had cut out. As an advert for the RN this programme is a total disaster.
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  #33  
Old 15th April 2017, 20:08
Irvingman Irvingman is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
In today's seagoing Engineering world which would you choose after finishing your training, 5 Weeks on, 5 Weeks off and good money working in the Offshore World with better conditions or a deployment to a War Zone for considerably less money.
Your Pumpmen were not called Popeye One and Two were they?
You're right of course, I've been away for too long and forget that the free time and the adventures we had are not available any longer.

Popeyes One and Two were a father and son well trained by years of swinging valves and were very useful if you needed a cargo pump impeller and shaft lifted from the pump room to the engine room workshop. Over the shoulder and away
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  #34  
Old 16th April 2017, 10:42
rigeng rigeng is offline  
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Originally Posted by jep1916 View Post
I also watched this programme. Did anybody pick up that both Main Engines failed, possibly due to an electrical / electronic fault shortly after leaving Plymouth. HMS Ocean was drifting in the Channel while about a dozen people in the ECR were sat looking at each other, wondering what to do. Eventually, someone came up with the brilliant solution of simply re- starting the Main Engines. Nobody even thought of trying to trace the cause of why the engines had cut out. As an advert for the RN this programme is a total disaster.
Your comment mirrors my views on this programme, or the bits I saw of it. I thought that even when the first main engine failed the Chief Engineer would have been on the case quickly, but no, a Junior Engineer was sent to investigate. I must find time to watch the whole programme on catch-up, or there again maybe not....
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  #35  
Old 17th April 2017, 10:38
alaric alaric is offline  
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Have just watched the first episode to see what the fuss is about.
The criticisms in previous posts are well founded.
"I do not believe it".
If this is an accurate picture of our modern Navy, then God Help Us when Trump presses the button and we get involved in the next round of unpleasantness.
Nelson would be turning in his grave, would a ship under his command have been so tardy when both main engines stop at sea for 'No Reason', and take 35 hours to change one relatively small cylinder head? I think not.
But what do you expect in an organisation where (quote)"Engineers are called Stokers"?

Last edited by alaric; 17th April 2017 at 11:02..
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  #36  
Old 17th April 2017, 11:24
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That very short hero would probably not have been surprised. Napoleon rebuffed Fulton (a damned colonial standing against his lawful Monarch) with:

You would make a ship sail against the wind and currents by lighting a bonfire under her decks? I pray you excuse me. I have no time to listen to such nonsense.

I think those in charge on both sides in that era would have been equally incredulous had a German inventor claimed that, "even old shoes if introduced into the combustion chamber in small enough particles" could have propelled the principal engine of war by a series of small explosions. A pity we have no report of what Napoleon or Nelson would have thought of that. Perhaps Shelley Burman or Bob Newhart could create one.
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  #37  
Old 17th April 2017, 11:32
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Does a younger, female, naval version of Dad's Army ring any bells?
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  #38  
Old 17th April 2017, 11:41
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We're DOOMED!
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  #39  
Old 17th April 2017, 12:00
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Aye!
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  #40  
Old 18th April 2017, 08:42
slick slick is online now  
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All,
Come on get grip you lot, the main part of the OCEAN's deployment has gone well, lessons have been learned , we live where we are and the ship reflects that.
yours aye,

slick
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  #41  
Old 18th April 2017, 12:06
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All,
Come on get grip you lot, the main part of the OCEAN's deployment has gone well, lessons have been learned , we live where we are and the ship reflects that.
yours aye,

slick


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  #42  
Old 18th April 2017, 12:28
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King Ratt King Ratt is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slick View Post
All,
Come on get grip you lot, the main part of the OCEAN's deployment has gone well, lessons have been learned , we live where we are and the ship reflects that.
yours aye,

slick
Well said.

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  #43  
Old 18th April 2017, 14:33
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
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Perhaps FOST has lost all its expertise also. If HMS Ocean was given the all clear to sail on this deployment I'll eat my hat, scrambled egg and all.
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  #44  
Old 18th April 2017, 21:50
trein trein is offline  
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watched this tonight,just reminded me of how unprofessional the british armed forces have become.I was bosun on the hurst point,one pantry for officers,crew and 12 squaddies.get up in the morning catering staff going wild,pantry wrecked puke all over the deck and some ***** of a seargant saying it must be the ships crew.the old man who was ex rfa (paul hamlin) soon put him in his place.After the old man was relieved by yet another ex rfa old man we spent 4 weeks cruising off the coast of N carolina on an mod charter.the old man refused to get a garbge barge,so it all went over the wall.Old man wanted to sack me and the mate,couldnt because he'd breached the health and safety laws regarding garbage,but he reckoned the mate had been drinking so he put him on the 8-12 no problem Ijust saw the mate earlier and it confirmed all th mn crews suspscions about the Rn Rfa Jim christie I was the bosun who painted the panels on the crane black,the white was reflacting at night piy it did'nt catch on
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  #45  
Old 25th April 2017, 17:39
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is online now  
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Just watched the last episode and yet again found myself horrified ! They where having trouble with their cooling water systems and blamed it on a sudden blockage of the sea strainers ! Fine ! But from what I saw when they opened them up it appeared they had not been cleaned in an age ! What happened to basic maintenance ? Do they have a routine maintenance program or not ? to stop this kind of thing happening !
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  #46  
Old 8th August 2017, 01:02
Chillytoes Chillytoes is offline  
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I haven't seen that program, but I can see the problem, common throughout all western forces. They have completely forgotten their purpose - to kill enemies on our behalf, not to be simply agents of social change.
In the headlong rush to be seen as equal opportunity, non gender specific, etc, etc, they have managed to lose their corporate memory. The useful, knowledgeable staff they once had got p***ed off with it and left, taking their expertise and training elsewhere.
As a further example of this problem, a recent US naval vessel was commissioned with no urinals! The reason given was that they would be more "flexible"! What a load of b******s!!
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  #47  
Old 8th August 2017, 22:45
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Originally Posted by Chillytoes View Post
I haven't seen that program, but I can see the problem, common throughout all western forces. They have completely forgotten their purpose - to kill enemies on our behalf, not to be simply agents of social change.
In the headlong rush to be seen as equal opportunity, non gender specific, etc, etc, they have managed to lose their corporate memory. The useful, knowledgeable staff they once had got p***ed off with it and left, taking their expertise and training elsewhere.
As a further example of this problem, a recent US naval vessel was commissioned with no urinals! The reason given was that they would be more "flexible"! What a load of b******s!!
You have said it all and, it is a sad state of affairs. An old, long retired Chief ERA that I know becomes apopleptic at hearing what is happening to "his" navy. His view is that it is enough "to give the dog's arrse the heartburn."
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  #48  
Old 9th August 2017, 11:05
WilliamH WilliamH is offline  
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I watched part of an episode and a fault developed on the refrigerating system, the Captain decided to return to port for repairs, I switched off in disgust.
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  #49  
Old 9th August 2017, 14:44
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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I saw an advert on the computer showing a young lad repairing his bike, then his car later and then joining the navy maintaining a ships' propulsion and weapons and eventually showing a young Engineer Officer. Is this the same navy we are talking about or have their Lordships realised they need practical people that don't mind getting their hands dirty to run the ships rather than University Graduates that cannot tell the difference between a bearing scraper and a paint scraper and would rather shuffle paper and consider the H&S implications of being pricked by a staple in the process, rather than receiving a black nail and bruised knuckle.

So if Korea kicks off, heaven help the West when you have bridge staff that are blind and keep hitting ships and Engineroom Staff that cannot fix anything without going on a course or shore side help in peacetime, never mind when the s**** starts flying and they have fix it or sink.

Remember HMS Edinburgh the Bridge 'team' (some team) hit rock middle of nowhere but the engineers stopped it sinking, but the Engineer Officer in charge was our generation and he got the MBE for his services.
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  #50  
Old 11th August 2017, 23:17
DaveM399 DaveM399 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sternchallis View Post
I saw an advert on the computer showing a young lad repairing his bike, then his car later and then joining the navy maintaining a ships' propulsion and weapons and eventually showing a young Engineer Officer. Is this the same navy we are talking about or have their Lordships realised they need practical people that don't mind getting their hands dirty to run the ships rather than University Graduates that cannot tell the difference between a bearing scraper and a paint scraper and would rather shuffle paper and consider the H&S implications of being pricked by a staple in the process, rather than receiving a black nail and bruised knuckle.

So if Korea kicks off, heaven help the West when you have bridge staff that are blind and keep hitting ships and Engineroom Staff that cannot fix anything without going on a course or shore side help in peacetime, never mind when the s**** starts flying and they have fix it or sink.

Remember HMS Edinburgh the Bridge 'team' (some team) hit rock middle of nowhere but the engineers stopped it sinking, but the Engineer Officer in charge was our generation and he got the MBE for his services.
If you look carefully at the advert, he can't even fix his bike! The left and right cranks are not 180 degrees opposite each other!
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