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Ara san juan could this submarine be found?

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  #1  
Old 23rd November 2017, 14:15
surveychile surveychile is offline  
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Ara san juan could this submarine be found?

Following to my previous post about this unfortunate occurrence, the following article appeared today:

Former vice admiral believes that submarine lost in Argentina will not reach the destination.

El exvicealmirante Antonio Mozzarelli consideró hoy que el submarino de la Armada Argentina que cumple una semana desaparecido en el Atlántico no llegará a la ciudad bonaerense de Mar del Plata, donde estaba previsto que hace dos días acabase su viaje.

Former Vice Admiral Antonio Mozzarelli said today that the submarine of the Argentine Navy which is missing a week in the Atlantic will not reach the Buenos Aires city of Mar del Plata, where it was scheduled to end its trip two days ago.

Mozzarelli, quien participó de la inspección de una reparación efectuada al submarino ARA San Juan que culminó en 2014, señaló a Efe que "no está esperado" que el submarino perdido llegue a su destino y, aunque por prudencia no quiso detallar el porqué de su conclusión, señaló diversos aspectos que a su juicio llaman la atención y abren más interrogantes sobre el caso.

Mozzarelli, who participated in the inspection of a repair made to the submarine ARA San Juan that ended in 2014, told Efe that "it is not expected" that the lost submarine reaches its destination and, although prudently did not want to detail the reason for its conclusion, pointed out several aspects that in his opinion draw attention and open more questions about the case.

Destacó que la tripulación de 44 personas no haya golpeado el casco del submarino, ni salido a superficie ni tampoco lanzado bengalas.

He pointed out that the crew of 44 people has not hit the hull of the submarine, nor surfaced nor launched flares.

"Un golpe en el casco podría ayudar para encontrarlo ya que podrían detectar su ruido y localizarlo", aseguró.

"A blow to the helmet could help to find it because they could detect its noise and locate it," he said.

En cuanto a salir a la superficie, Mozzarelli afirmó que "quizás eso no se hizo" porque la meteorología no lo permitió.

As for surfacing, Mozzarelli said that "maybe that was not done" because the weather did not allow it.

Entonces, el exvicealmirante sostuvo que "el mal clima solo puede afectar a la nave en caso de una emergencia que precise una interrupción de la inmersión".

Then, the former admiral said that "bad weather can only affect the ship in case of an emergency that requires an interruption of the dive."

Y un elemento que falta es el lanzamiento de bengalas, porque si bien fue vista una de color blanca en medio del océano, según informó la Armada Argentina, si hubiera procedido del ARA San Juan tendría que haber sido roja.

And one element that is missing is the launching of flares, because although a white one was seen in the middle of the ocean, according to the Argentine Navy, if it had come from the ARA San Juan it would have to have been red.

Cuando ya pasaron 48 horas del día en que el submarino tuvo que haber finalizado su misión en Mar del Plata, Mozzarelli no cree que esté esperado que el submarino llegue a ese puerto y agregó que "solo queda buscar y esperar para saber qué pasó".

When 48 hours have passed since the submarine had to finish its mission in Mar del Plata, Mozzarelli does not believe that the submarine is expected to reach that port and added that "it is only necessary to look and wait to know what happened".

Además, colocó la preocupación en el empeoramiento del clima, "que dificultará" la búsqueda aérea o mediante buques.

In addition, he manifesed the concern on the worsening of the climate, "which will make the search by air or ships more difficult".

En este sentido, el exvicealmirante descartó que las malas condiciones meteorológicas o la falta de oxígeno puedan afectar por sí mismas al ARA San Juan.

n this sense, the former vice admiral ruled out that poor weather conditions or lack of oxygen could affect the San Juan ARA by themselves.

"Es un submarino que está diseñado para cumplir 70 días de inmersión continuada", indicó.

"It is a submarine that is designed to meet 70 days of continuous immersion," he said.

Sobre el oxígeno y la capacidad de la nave, "es cierto que si no renovaron el aire tienen 7 días, pero adentro tienen botellones y cápsulas que les darían más tiempo".

About the oxygen and capacity of the ship, "it is true that if they did not renew the air they have 7 days, but inside they have bottles and capsules that would give them more time".

Además, describió que el ARA San Juan "puede navegar en aguas de hasta 720 metros de profundidad" y el área de búsqueda del submarino tiene un promedio de 200 metros.

In addition, he described that the ARA San Juan "can sail in waters up to 720 meters deep" and the search area of the submarine has an average of 200 meters.

De esta manera, Mozzarelli negó que la nave haya tenido un problema con la presión del agua en el caso de haber hecho una inmersión a profundidades superiores a las que puede tolerar.

In this way, Mozzarelli denied that the ship had a problem with water pressure in the case of having made a dive to depths greater than those that can tolerate.

Regards

Tomi.
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  #2  
Old 23rd November 2017, 15:00
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Thanks Tomi...you are nearer to the tragedy than most of us.

geoff
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  #3  
Old 23rd November 2017, 15:39
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Whatever: time is running out for those guys, and there is a major International effort to find them, and let us pray that they do. We on this site are all serving or ex seafarers and, in all of the wars and troubles of this world we learned to live by the rule that if another seafarer was in trouble we would risk everything to assist him and to hell with the politics.

The only hope now is that either the USN or the RN will find them, because both have state-of-the-art submarine rescue equipment, and both are searching. Even so, the loss of the Kursk suggests what happens when a military top brass tries to avoid help in an attitude of self-protection and, hopefully, that will not happen in this case.
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  #4  
Old 23rd November 2017, 16:52
surveychile surveychile is offline  
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And the following article appeared in the argentinean newspaper La Nación:

http://www.lanacion.com.ar/2084923-n...o-ara-san-juan

Submarino ARA San Juan: la Armada confirmó un "evento violento consistente con una explosión" y continúa la búsqueda

Submarine ARA San Juan: the Navy confirmed a "violent event consistent with an explosion" and the search continues

El vocero de la fuerza, el capitán Enrique Balbi, dijo que recibieron esa información a través del embajador argentino en Austria, Rafael Grossi

The spokesman of the force, Captain Enrique Balbi, said that they received this information through the Argentine ambassador in Austria, Rafael Grossi

A ocho días de la desaparición del submarino ARA San Juan, el vocero de la Armada Argentina, Enrique Balbi, aseguró hoy que el Gobierno recibió información a través del embajador argentino en Austria, Rafael Grossi, de que "hubo un evento anómalo, singular, corto, violento y no nuclear, consistente con una explosión" en la zona del último contacto del navío.

Eight days after the disappearance of the submarine ARA San Juan, the spokesman of the Argentine Navy, Enrique Balbi, assured today that the Government received information through the Argentine ambassador in Austria, Rafael Grossi, that "there was an anomalous, singular event, short, violent and non-nuclear, consistent with an explosion "in the area of the last contact of the ship.

"Se recibió una información sobre un evento anómalo, singular, corto, violento y no nuclear, consistente con una explosión", apuntó. Balbi dijo que la novedad "coincide" con el dato aportado ayer por la agencia internacional Ismerlo, especializada en el rescate de submarinos siniestrados, sobre el registro de un "ruido" a apenas 30 millas de la última localización del navío.

We received information about an anomalous, singular, short, violent and non-nuclear event, consistent with an explosion," he said. Balbi said the novelty "coincides" with the data provided yesterday by the international agency Ismerlo, specializing in the rescue of sinister submarines, on the record of a "noise" just 30 miles from the last location of the ship.

Balbi dijo que la novedad "coincide" con el dato aportado ayer por la agencia internacional Ismerlo, especializada en el rescate de submarinos siniestrados, sobre el registro de un "ruido" a apenas 30 millas de la última localización del navío.

Balbi said this news "matches" with the data provided yesterday by the international agency Ismerlo, specializing in the rescue of sinister submarines, abot the register of a "noise" just 30 miles from the last location of the ship.

El hallazgo de la "anomalía hidroacústica" obligó, anoche, al envío de buques con capacidad de sonares y telefonía subacuática y dos aeronaves de Estados Unidos y Brasil, para que verifiquen si allí se encontraba el ARA San Juan.

The finding of the "hydroacoustic anomaly" forced, last night, the sending of vessels with sonar and underwater telephony capacity and two aircraft from the United States and Brazil, to verify if the ARA San Juan was there.

"Los dos informes dan casi el mismo punto y casi el mismo área. Estamos hablando de un área de 125 kilómetros de radio", precisó.

"The two reports give almost the same point and almost the same area, we are talking about an area of 125 kilometers of radius," he said.

La ubicación registrada del ARA San Juan en su última comunicación había sido el golfo San Jorge, a 432 kilómetros de la costa (240 millas náuticas), al sudeste de la península Valdés, en Chubut.

The registered location of ARA San Juan in its last communication was the San Jorge Gulf, 432 kilometers from the coast (240 nautical miles), southeast of the Valdés peninsula, in Chubut.

"No sabemos la causa que produjo en ese lugar, en esa fecha, un evento de estas características", remarcó el vocero de la fuerza.
"We do not know the cause that produced in that place, on that date, an event of these characteristics," remarked the spokesman of the force.

Balbi señaló que continúa el operativo para dar con el San Juan: "En consecuencia, seguimos buscando. Hasta tener evidencia concreta de dónde está el submarino y nuestros 44 tripulantes". Y añadió: "En cuando a cualquier hipótesis o conjetura, hasta que no tengamos evidencia certera, no podemos afirmar ninguna afirmación concluyente, valga la redundancia".

Balbi said the operation continues to find the San Juan: "As a result, we continue to search, until we have concrete evidence of where the submarine and our 44 crew members are." He added: "As for any hypothesis or conjecture, until we have accurate evidence, we can not affirm any conclusive statement, worth the redundancy."

El nuevo parte de la Armada generó indignación entre los familiares de los 44 tripulantes. "Son unos desgraciados, nos mintieron", aseveró Itatí Leguizamón, esposa del cabo primero Germán Oscar Suárez.

The new information of the Navy generated indignation among the relatives of the 44 crew members. "They are miserable, they lied to us," said Itatí Leguizamón, wife of Corporal Germán Oscar Suárez.



El ARA San Juan es un submarino de ataque construido en Alemania en 1985. En 2004 se le realizó una reparación denominada "de media vida". Un comunicado de aquel momento afirmaba que los arreglos extenderían la vida del navío por 30 años.

The ARA San Juan is an attack submarine built in Germany in 1985. In 2004 a repair called "half life" was made. A statement from that time stated that the arrangements would extend the life of the ship for 30 years.

Very sad news if confirmed.

Regards

Tomi.
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  #5  
Old 16th March 2018, 21:36
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Reported in British Press - Mail and Express, but I cannot find any reference in MercoPress..

It appears that the Argentine Government have now announced that ARA San Juan was indeed on a 'spying' (I would call it observation) mission to monitor shipping to and from the Falkland Islands.
It is perhaps worth mentioning that the families of crew have been quite vocal in criticism of their government and demanding answers.

I suppose that the next stage will be to blame the UK for the sinking.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/93...st-news-spying
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Old 17th March 2018, 01:54
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Samsette Samsette is offline  
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Originally Posted by Mad Landsman View Post
Reported in British Press - Mail and Express, but I cannot find any reference in MercoPress..

It appears that the Argentine Government have now announced that ARA San Juan was indeed on a 'spying' (I would call it observation) mission to monitor shipping to and from the Falkland Islands.
It is perhaps worth mentioning that the families of crew have been quite vocal in criticism of their government and demanding answers.

I suppose that the next stage will be to blame the UK for the sinking.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/93...st-news-spying
Really. But, what would they have sunk it with?
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Old 17th March 2018, 10:44
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Really. But, what would they have sunk it with?
As you well know State propaganda does not need logic, or the news media come to that.

Among things being said by relatives is a claim that a British helicopter and a Chilean ship were 'pursuing' the submarine.
That such things have been denied would probably tend to reinforce the idea that someone, not Argentina, has something to hide.

I hope it all just fades away but I have a feeling that we have not heard the last of it.
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Old 17th March 2018, 11:28
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Originally Posted by Mad Landsman View Post
As you well know State propaganda does not need logic, or the news media come to that.

Among things being said by relatives is a claim that a British helicopter and a Chilean ship were 'pursuing' the submarine.
That such things have been denied would probably tend to reinforce the idea that someone, not Argentina, has something to hide.

I hope it all just fades away but I have a feeling that we have not heard the last of it.
They will probably never "find" the hulk, it would contain too many embarrassments.
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Old 17th March 2018, 12:10
RHP RHP is offline  
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Among things being said by relatives is a claim that a British helicopter and a Chilean ship were 'pursuing' the submarine.
Blaming their traditional foes, how original...
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Old 17th March 2018, 12:46
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
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Lets expel a few Argentinean Diplomats.
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Old 17th March 2018, 20:52
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Nice talk; old foes, expel...........

I feel for the families of the San Juan crew, if what their government has admitted is true, as it now leads to all sorts of way-out speculation and conspiracy theorizing. It gives no closure to their loss.
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Old 17th March 2018, 21:51
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Originally Posted by Samsette View Post
Nice talk; old foes, expel...........

I feel for the families of the San Juan crew, if what their government has admitted is true, as it now leads to all sorts of way-out speculation and conspiracy theorizing. It gives no closure to their loss.
They really are unwitting victims.
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  #13  
Old 22nd March 2018, 23:17
KEITHMAR KEITHMAR is offline  
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This appears to be a customary"news diversion"for the general Argentine Public, to ..... ,take their minds off the all the socio/ economic problems from which Argentina is suffering ...... But one way or the other, I don·t think We·ll ever know the truth to this tragedy, and blaming "Los Ingleses"(British) is easy, No one at the moment has ANY proof, Smoke and Mirrors"Very sad for the suffering families.
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