Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads - Page 58 - Ships Nostalgia
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Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads

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  #1426  
Old 1st February 2012, 23:36
Alfred Ford Alfred Ford is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARINEJOCKY View Post
Alfred, No reason to apologize, just read the rubbish before your post and you will see you can ask or say just about anything.

PS. do not say anything bad about a mod or the boss & you will be OK.

I will let Heiwa answer your very good question.
I'll try not to run foul of either...!!
AF
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  #1427  
Old 1st February 2012, 23:38
Alfred Ford Alfred Ford is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
Not a silly question. The answer could be estimated by guessing her Equipment Numeral and looking it up in the IACS table, but a shorter version would be "no, its not enough to make a perceptible difference"
Thanks Andrew..., I prefer the shorter version!!
AF
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  #1428  
Old 1st February 2012, 23:45
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Mad Landsman Mad Landsman is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamishb View Post
Hi All, I have just looked at the webcam and it appears that the glass roof has parted company with its coaming, could this be the start of the superstructure breaking up?
Regards
Hamish.
The glass roof over the pool area is/was retractable - It looks as though it has come off its tracks.
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  #1429  
Old 1st February 2012, 23:52
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Another link that may be of interest:

http://sites.google.com/site/wtc7lie...orkman-s-world

The next question is: How on earth can anyone fit a conspiracy theory into this casualty?

(There are too many conspiracy theories, I think it must be a plot)
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  #1430  
Old 1st February 2012, 23:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiwa View Post
Link, pls!
Heiwa . There are over 1400 posts in this thread . Some have links to diver video etc .
Best thing if you have the time is to look at all the posts and view the links there .

There is one diver video that clearly shows both propellers intact . Dont know where the idea came from that they are on the bottom ???



Regards Derek
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  #1431  
Old 2nd February 2012, 00:03
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Anders doesn't mention his time with SBM - I attended meetings with himself and others in Monaco discussing FPSO design.
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  #1432  
Old 2nd February 2012, 00:03
Boatman25 Boatman25 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roger View Post
Heiwa .

There is one diver video that clearly shows both propellers intact . Dont know where the idea came from that they are on the bottom ???

Regards Derek
Forget my snorkling then he he
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  #1433  
Old 2nd February 2012, 00:20
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Channel 4 Documentary

I watched this travesty of a 'documentary' where they interviewed, if I recall correctly:

3 or 4 dancers
4 passengers
1 retired passenger ship master
1 college professor

Hardly likely to produce a coherent, sequential or factual report.

To be fair what those on board reported will be as they perceived events to be, but in all such stressful situations what you believe happened may not be the case.



I recall being on a tanker where an explosion at 4 in the morning blew a man overboard, not to mention igniting various minor conflagrations.

We dropped a lifeboat and recovered him smartly, but at the post incident meeting, 4 people were of the firm opinion that they and they alone had given the command to lower the boat.

My sympathies remain with Captain Schettino, screaming coast guards, media interviews - what chance does he have of a fair investigation.
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  #1434  
Old 2nd February 2012, 00:20
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evidence

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad Landsman View Post
I think we should all take a wee look at the above link just to prove that just about anything and anybody is allowed to make a statement here.

Absolutley amazing, it beats anything SM could come up with, in fact come back Gill, we need your help.
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  #1435  
Old 2nd February 2012, 01:16
barrinoz barrinoz is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MARINEJOCKY View Post
I think we should all take a wee look at the above link just to prove that just about anything and anybody is allowed to make a statement here.
Absolutley amazing, it beats anything SM could come up with, in fact come back Gill, we need your help.
Not true!
barrinoz.
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Everything will be all right in the end and if it is not all right, then it is not yet the end.
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  #1436  
Old 2nd February 2012, 01:36
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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On a lighter note, a friend who is a pirate hostage negotiator writes:

"Interestingly the second officer of a ship that we negotiated for after it was hijacked by Somalis in 2009 was also working on the Concordia, and she escaped unhurt from that too"

Unsurprisingly, she is getting a reputation as a Jonah!

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 2nd February 2012 at 07:44..
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  #1437  
Old 2nd February 2012, 06:44
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Having found out who Heiwa really is makes things a lot more easy to follow. I don't think I have ever come across a thread anywhere, even on the disaster of 9/11, that has revealed the true nature of the people doing the posting more than this one!
Nuff said there.
Pods........no pods........props missing........not missing........lumps of rock on the bottom........not on the bottom.......Capt on the bridge.........not on the bridge and so on ad infinitum.
The blunt fact of the matter is that the ship was taken into an unsafe area at an unsafe speed and walloped the putty. (OK hard putty)
There is only one person and one person alone that is responsible for that to happen and the is the Master. For your benefit by the way MJ THIS Master Mariner would never have taken his ship anywhere near that place even if the shore marketing wallahs hopped up and down on the spot. If that meant different empoyment then so be it.........my certificate and the safety of the ship is way more important than some chair polisher in the office. Furhermore there is not one Master I have ever sailed with (except one who was so drunk he was kicked off in the next port) that would ever contemplate such as thing.
No matter how we deal with this.........that is the guts of it. He made a serious mistake. End of story. QED .........whatever.
As for the listing once she contacted the bottom. It does not matter whether the stern, bow or midsection contacted first, as soon as some part of the vessel makes contact with the ground the stability is severely compromised. With the huge amount of water part filling some compartments and filling others the free surface affect would have been huge.
To best understand free surface go to your fridge and remove the drip tray. Fill it to quarter full and then try and walk with it without spliing. That is free surface although in the case of this ship we are talking thousands of tons.
Ok.......back under my rock for some more fun.
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  #1438  
Old 2nd February 2012, 07:10
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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On this picture with passengers ready to abandon ship and embark into lifeboats
http://www.cargolaw.com/images/Disas...sta_Con19.JPEG
the CC is not listing very much ... or at all. I can thus understand Master that situation at this time after the initial contact was reasonably under control. There seems to be no panick either.
But maybe it is a picture of a previous exercise by another Master?

Here - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tTHwz9CfZqU - is an interesting video from embarkation/launch of lifeboats on port side. When most boats have been launched on port side (embarkation deck virtually empty) list is still <15 as remaining people can still walk on the deck.
But maybe the video is fake with such a useless Master onboard?

Last edited by Heiwa; 2nd February 2012 at 07:33..
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  #1439  
Old 2nd February 2012, 08:04
dom dom is offline  
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dom

i dont think THE video is a fake
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  #1440  
Old 2nd February 2012, 09:20
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Having found out who Heiwa really is makes things a lot more easy to follow.
Yes and Off Topic, Heiwa doesn't like terrorists and lying/cheating people anywhere putting blame on innocent people, so he has offered 1 000 000:- to anybody proving him wrong at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall.htm . But here we discuss CC and safety at sea, the latter the main biz of Heiwa. Rule #1 is first to find out what really happened at the incident and why. Later any personal responsibility can be decided.
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  #1441  
Old 2nd February 2012, 09:39
Iangb Iangb is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Heiwa View Post
Yes and Off Topic, Heiwa doesn't like terrorists and lying/cheating people anywhere putting blame on innocent people, so he has offered 1 000 000:- to anybody proving him wrong at http://heiwaco.tripod.com/chall.htm . But here we discuss CC and safety at sea, the latter the main biz of Heiwa. Rule #1 is first to find out what really happened at the incident and why. Later any personal responsibility can be decided.
As for the 'missing' port screw...here it is.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg article-2094940-118B4491000005DC-848_634x444.jpg (50.7 KB, 114 views)
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  #1442  
Old 2nd February 2012, 09:48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randcmackenzie View Post
I watched this travesty of a 'documentary' where they interviewed, if I recall correctly:

3 or 4 dancers
4 passengers
1 retired passenger ship master
1 college professor

Hardly likely to produce a coherent, sequential or factual report.

To be fair what those on board reported will be as they perceived events to be, but in all such stressful situations what you believe happened may not be the case.



I recall being on a tanker where an explosion at 4 in the morning blew a man overboard, not to mention igniting various minor conflagrations.

We dropped a lifeboat and recovered him smartly, but at the post incident meeting, 4 people were of the firm opinion that they and they alone had given the command to lower the boat.

My sympathies remain with Captain Schettino, screaming coast guards, media interviews - what chance does he have of a fair investigation.
I saw this as well and it did cross my mind that CH4 should not have aired this, pre any enquiry.
Is there an MAIB equivalent in Italy ? Because if it's left to the lawyers the opinion with the deepest pockets will win and placing the entire blame on Schettiono would be convenient.
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  #1443  
Old 2nd February 2012, 09:56
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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Originally Posted by Iangb View Post
As for the 'missing' port screw...here it is.
Thanks - the inboard blade behind the A-bracket looks funny! Maybe it was contacted by something?
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  #1444  
Old 2nd February 2012, 10:06
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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As I understand it, there is no direct equivalent of the MAIB in Italy.
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  #1445  
Old 2nd February 2012, 11:10
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Hi agin I see a second panel of the glass roof is now adrift , what movement would it take st shift these panels as I guess they must be fairly heavy, so to get them to jump off the rails so something must have started them on their way
Regards
Hamish.
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  #1446  
Old 2nd February 2012, 11:47
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
As I understand it, there is no direct equivalent of the MAIB in Italy.
You are probably right as there are no Italian members of MAIIF today :
http://www.maiif.org/index.php/contacts/members
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  #1447  
Old 2nd February 2012, 12:03
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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Originally Posted by hamishb View Post
Hi agin I see a second panel of the glass roof is now adrift , what movement would it take st shift these panels as I guess they must be fairly heavy, so to get them to jump off the rails so something must have started them on their way
Regards
Hamish.
I see what you mean. She must be moving a bit

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 2nd February 2012 at 12:20..
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  #1448  
Old 2nd February 2012, 12:08
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Originally Posted by Heiwa View Post
You are probably right as there are no Italian members of MAIIF today :
http://www.maiif.org/index.php/contacts/members
Thanks for that link, and may I also thank you for the link to the STS GA and damage stability calcs for a similar ship.


MSC.255(84): The Code of The International Standards and Recommended Practices for a Safety Investigation into a Marine Casualty or Marine Incident (Casualty Investigation Code) 2010, contains this:

PRINCIPLES OF INVESTIGATION

16.1 Independence: A marine safety investigation should be unbiased to ensure the free flow of information to it.

16.1.1 In order to achieve the outcome in paragraph 16.1, the investigator(s) carrying out a marine safety investigation should have functional independence from:

.1 the parties involved in the marine casualty or marine incident;

.2 anyone who may make a decision to take administrative or disciplinary action against an individual or organization involved in a marine casualty or marine incident; and

.3 judicial proceedings.

16.1.2 The investigator(s) carrying out a marine safety investigation should be free of interference from the parties in .1, .2 and .3 of paragraph 16.1.1 with respect to:

.1 the gathering of all available information relevant to the marine casualty or marine incident, including voyage data recordings and vessel traffic services recordings;

.2 analysis of evidence and the determination of causal factors;

.3 drawing conclusions relevant to the causal factors;

.4 distributing a draft report for comment and preparation of the final report; and

.5 if appropriate, the making of safety recommendations.

16.2 Safety focused: It is not the objective of a marine safety investigation to determine liability, or apportion blame. However, the investigator(s) carrying out a marine safety investigation should not refrain from fully reporting on the causal factors because fault or
liability may be inferred from the findings.

and

EU Directive 2009/18/EC establishing the fundamental principles governing the investigation of accidents in the maritime transport sector

which the enthusiast may find here:

http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/...14:0127:EN:PDF

Is Italy in compliance?

See here:

Article 8

Investigative bodies

1. Member States shall ensure that safety investigations are
conducted under the responsibility of an impartial permanent
investigative body
, endowed with the necessary powers, and by
suitably qualified investigators, competent in matters relating to
marine casualties and incidents.

In order to carry out a safety investigation in an unbiased
manner, the investigative body shall be independent in its
organisation, legal structure and decision-making of any party
whose interests could conflict with the task entrusted to it.

Landlocked Member States which have neither ships nor vessels
flying their flag will identify an independent focal point to
cooperate in the investigation pursuant to Article 5(1)(c).

2. The investigative body shall ensure that individual investigators
have a working knowledge of, and practical experience
in, those subject areas pertaining to their normal investigative
duties. Additionally, the investigative body shall ensure ready
access to appropriate expertise, as necessary.

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 2nd February 2012 at 12:32..
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  #1449  
Old 2nd February 2012, 12:13
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hamishb View Post
Hi agin I see a second panel of the glass roof is now adrift , what movement would it take st shift these panels as I guess they must be fairly heavy, so to get them to jump off the rails so something must have started them on their way
Regards
Hamish.
The purpose of the glass roof is make the swimming pool in-doors. Today morning/evening temperature at Savona/Marseille (popular ports of CC) is around 0C so it is better to close the glass roof. BTW, the ship does not float on the glass roof! Only M/V Estonia did float on her windows 1994 in the deck house : http://heiwaco.tripod.com/floatdeckhouse.htm
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  #1450  
Old 2nd February 2012, 12:17
Heiwa Heiwa is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
Thanks for that link, and may I also thank you for the link to the STS GA anddamage stability calcs for a similar ship


MSC.255(84): The Code of The International Standards and Recommended Practices for a Safety Investigation into a Marine Casualty or Marine Incident (Casualty Investigation Code) 2010

and

EU Directive 2009/18/EC establishing the fundamental principles governing the investigation of accidents in the maritime transport sector

Is Italy in compliance?
I assume Italy, like Sweden, has adopted the EU-rules as national law but it deosn't mean that they follow them. Welcome to reality:
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