Sinking Ship - Salvage or Looting ? - Ships Nostalgia
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Sinking Ship - Salvage or Looting ?

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  #1  
Old 22nd January 2007, 18:26
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Sinking Ship - Salvage or Looting ?

I just saw on TV where the containers are washing ashore from the container ship that is in trouble,the people are helping themselves to the good/contents, is that legal for them to do that.?
John.
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  #2  
Old 22nd January 2007, 18:49
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BBC reports police will patrol said coastline. People will be informed of the severity of such theft. Stein
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Old 22nd January 2007, 19:05
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Don't they shoot looters in the States?.
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  #4  
Old 22nd January 2007, 19:25
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You pose an interesting question John.

Common sense says it is, but when you listen to the announcements from the police they say you should report anything you recover to the authorities. Now I would have expected them to say "if you take stuff washed ashore from the wreck you will be arrested for theft". That makes it somewhat more vague. In any case if you listen to the radio here, the announcements made seem to be being ignored by many people.

I am sure there will be someone on the site who can provide the correct legal position.

Regards,

Brian
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  #5  
Old 22nd January 2007, 19:40
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Brian et al

Comments are posted on the gallery so much that I had to search for this.

This link was posted against a photo of the wreckage on the beach.

http://www.mcga.gov.uk/c4mca/mcga-en..._row_remit.htm

Makes interesting reading. Looting it ain't in an island nation.

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galler...ge/1#poststart

Is the photo in question.

I've been wondering in my cynical little mind if the decision to beach her there wasn't taken by a lot of people with a southwestern wrecking heritage or some sort of genetic race memory.
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Old 22nd January 2007, 19:41
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Don't know if this link is going to work, but click on the link below and look at where it says "Englands Big Picture" Sadly the picture has now been replaced, but it showed a Farmer with a BMW motorbike in the box on the back of his tractor, whilst two police looked on.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/default.stm
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Last edited by Coastie; 23rd January 2007 at 16:31..
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  #7  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastie View Post
Don't know if this link is going to work, but click on the link below and look at where it says "Englands Big Picture"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/default.stm
I have heard that even 4X4 car has gone to a loving home, must have come ashore in a container.

Paul
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  #8  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:15
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Old Strawbs, There is a law on the books that you can shoot looters that are looting homes and shops,also in that law it allows people to take food and clothing to help them during the emergency, Hi-Fi and TVs don't fall into that category.
John
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  #9  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:16
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Even BMW motor bikes are being taken out of the containers and taken away.
John.
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  #10  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:26
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Containers full of biscuits too I believe. Tab-Nabs for the scavengers?
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  #11  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marconi Sahib View Post
people with a southwestern wrecking heritage or some sort of genetic race memory.
A myth .... too long promoted. I wish this old chestnut was dropped.
It was considered a harvest for the needy,
but as for causing the wrecks, a myth.
Besides, there are very few of us with a
complete genetic race continuity in Devon or Cornwall.
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  #12  
Old 22nd January 2007, 20:54
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Just so Treeve....a myth.

But part of British folklore like Robin Hood and King Arthur.
Promulgated by the likes of Hammond Innes, Daphne du Maurier, Winston Graham, et al.

Unfortunately I doubt very much if the myth will ever be laid to rest.
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  #13  
Old 22nd January 2007, 22:04
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Loved the old black and white films about the bad boys on the cliff waving the lamp and bringing the ships onto the rocks and then stealing the cargo. They had a name for them was it Moon rakers?/or something like that.
John.
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  #14  
Old 22nd January 2007, 22:44
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My interpretation of the information on the Maritime and Coastguard Agency website referred to above is that, despite all the hoohah on the television, the people recovering stuff from the beach are not breaking any law as long as they keep the goods they salvage so that the owner may claim it, and that they declare it to the Receiver of Wreck. Moreover the salvors may be entitled to a salvage award. We do not know at this stage who will and who will not declare what they have salvaged but are assuming few of them will do so.

Looked at from a pragmatic point of view I would like to make the following observations:

1. The owners are not currently recovering the material so, theoretically at least, those recovering stuff are acting in the owner's interest in recovering it(provided they declare it to the Receiver of Wreck of course).

2. Much of the stuff would be completely ruined and rendered useless without being removed from the sea very quickly. So even if you believe that this is theft, the material would be of no value to the owner if left where it is. So is it better to leave stuff rotting in the sea or putting it to good use?

3. The people recovering stuff like motor cycles and cars may very well declare them to the authorities - (eventually!) as it would not be that easy to sell a BMW motorbike or car pulled out of the sea - even on eBay. Though I suppose they could be broken up for spares.

4. If the authorities really wanted to stop this kind of activity, they should have passed a law making it illegal to recover this type of material at all, or without a licence, and they have not done so.

(PS: Myth or not, I thought Jamaica Inn by Daphne du Maurier was great - the dramatisation on the television some years ago starring Patrick McGoohan (he of The Prisoner fame) was particularly good)

Regards,

Brian
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  #15  
Old 22nd January 2007, 23:26
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Remember the film made years back called Whisky Galore? Based on a true story about a whisky-laden ship going aground on the west coast of Scotland somewhere during WW2. Whether it be jetsam or flotsam, for what the Lord giveth, let`s all be thankful.
Knut.
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  #16  
Old 22nd January 2007, 23:40
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Brian we have to remember the law re Flotsam and Jetson was scribed years ago . Cargo in containers may well be in relativly "good Nick " compared to the cargos of foundering vessels in the past .
I would not doubt a revisiting of the law may follow this disaster .
A container full of crates of " Scotch " for example would be of immense value even if subjected to a little salt water on the outside !
Derek
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  #17  
Old 23rd January 2007, 01:03
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The Cornish were well adept at smuggling and were also equally adept at fighting off marauding pirates, Penzance being honoured by the King for their bravery and skills in defeating the pirates. With the smuggling industry in full swing they had no need to nefarious pretense in shifting lights. Even the BBC has promulgated even more nonsense in their recent Coast experiment in the dark at sea. The coastal towns and villages were seamen themselves and would risk life and limb to save others in peril. However, there were crew members of some ships who defended their cargo and ship, and were killed or maimed by the wreckers ( those who took from the ships and salvaged timber for use - the true meaning of wrecking ). I have done too much reading in this area. I love those old stories, but they have done a lot of damage to us.
I like Brian's write up - excellent summation of the situation.
Best wishes, Raymond
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  #18  
Old 23rd January 2007, 03:49
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Bmw

Quote:
Originally Posted by Coastie View Post
Don't know if this link is going to work, but click on the link below and look at where it says "Englands Big Picture"
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/default.stm
Hey Chris!... grab me one of them BMW bikes mate!... look good out here that would...LOL
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  #19  
Old 23rd January 2007, 08:22
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have a look at the following link.... January sales or what.
http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2007030639,00.html
Like vultures they are.
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  #20  
Old 23rd January 2007, 10:51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
I just saw on TV where the containers are washing ashore from the container ship that is in trouble,the people are helping themselves to the good/contents, is that legal for them to do that.?
John.
Frankly we need to face up to the truth as to what is actually going on. The idea that there is something homely, or vaguely cute, about the present situation on Branscombe beach is wrong, what we are seeing is unadulterated theft.

There is no point in dressing it up as “salvage”, which happens when genuine and devoted people make a serious effort, sometimes at great personal risk to themselves, to save ships and their cargoes from damage for the benefit of the owners; and in turn, they quite correctly get properly rewarded for their good work. The reward they receive being determined by how much risk was taken by the salvor in the recovery.

Breaking open a locked container and taking the contents home to be sold on E-Bay cannot by any stretch of imagination be called “salvage for the benefit of the owner of the goods”, anymore so than stealing someone’s car and driving it round and crashing it can be called “joy riding”.

We need to call what is going on by its proper and wholly unpleasant name. It is looting and theft.

Last edited by non descript; 23rd January 2007 at 16:50.. Reason: spelling correction
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  #21  
Old 23rd January 2007, 11:09
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Not in the eyes of the law apparently, Tonga!
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  #22  
Old 23rd January 2007, 13:12
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If if you do declare these goods, it is unlikely that they will ever be claimed, so they might as well be put to good use. Until a law is passed that expressly forbids the recovery of goods in this way, I'm afraid that it will be human nature for this sort of thing to continue.

Phil
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  #23  
Old 23rd January 2007, 13:47
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This goes beyond the legalities of the situation. The mess on the beach has been made 10 times worse that it was because sound containers have been broken open resulting in more rubbish on the beach and floating out to sea. Though this probably does not worry many, if any, of the people concerned.

Last edited by BeerSailor; 23rd January 2007 at 15:41..
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  #24  
Old 23rd January 2007, 15:34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
Old Strawbs, There is a law on the books that you can shoot looters that are looting homes and shops,also in that law it allows people to take food and clothing to help them during the emergency, Hi-Fi and TVs don't fall into that category.
John
Hi John,
I get your point My Friend but just the same they ought to be. What a disgrace though. They are even taking People's personnal belongings. No doubt it will be said it's human nature, not mine I hasten to add. Rgds.
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Old 23rd January 2007, 15:50
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On tv last night there were pictures of the belongings of a family who were moving from one country to another and had been packed into a container. Family things like the crockery and picture frames, personal stuff etc which were just being taken. When the reporter asked about it the people just said that it's finders keepers. I do not understand how people can do that.
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