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  #26  
Old 21st August 2014, 07:13
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by woodend View Post
Hi Scott, I can't remember any marked differences in handling between the various sisters. They all handled better when full of bunkers and with all the water tanks 'pressed up'.
Hi John, thanks. That makes a lot of sense. As a kid in PE I remember they always seemed to be as down to their marks as they could be. Cape Town seemed the same. A great help in all the wind? Durban seemed and East London seemed to keep the bows a little out of the water. For manoeuvrability perhaps in the currents of the Buffalo/Durban Bay's rogue currents? As the Merriman's Chief in Durban - Carlos Castro - pointed out, people forgot that all the tugs from the John Dock onward had exactly the same size engines (except the J. D. White). And so the THW, CFK, TE and OT packed the same power and size propellers into hulls 20ft shorter than the oil burners and 450 tons lighter. [All depending on what was happening downstairs of course] On the other side, the Hoy was only 10ft longer than the oil burners but lighter and 400 horsepower more. She also was often trimmed by the stern. So often people from the outside assumed that the oil burners, because they were bigger, were more powerful. From the trials, the THW was 150 iHp more than the DH ... but ... of course, the lads in boiler suits and the lads in the stokehold had to look lively ... Thanks for your help.
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  #27  
Old 21st August 2014, 07:25
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Originally Posted by Dickyboy View Post
Hi! I know very little about tugs, but always liked the look of the SAR ones. Good and solid looking as it were. I never saw tugs like them elsewhere. Were they built specifically for SAR to their specification's? Perhaps when I saw them (In the 60s) they were old but well kept? They seemed huge compared with other tugs that handled ships in other parts of the world. They were almost ship sized themselves, it seemed to me.
A combination of SAR&H and Ferguson Brothers originally. The Nautical Advisor of the time (R. A. Leigh ?) and SME James Cochrane worked with Ferguson Brothers to design the Ludwig Wiener. It was understood from the first that as it took too long for salvage tugs to arrive from Europe if there was a casualty on the SA coast, and that it would cost too much to keep a dedicated salvage tug here in SA waiting for an emergency, that the harbour tugs would be designed in such a way that they could do both jobs. At the same time, Union Castle announced plans for larger mailships, which turned out to the the Arundel and Windsor Castles of 1919 and so big tugs would be needed. James Cochrane joked to his friends that Fergusons took the engines of the largest British harbour tugs of the time, 1200 iHp, (most actually were 750-1000 iHp) drew two on a piece of paper, worked out how big the boilers would need to be to keep those engines running, added an extra two, worked out how much coal would keep a tug like that at sea for ten days ... and then just drew a hull around it! The Wiener had an almost sister (same hull and engines, different superstructure with twin funnels), the Hunter (off which the Royal Navy designed the Roysterer class (Ferguson's built some of them so the drawings would have been at hand). Then a bigger version of the Wiener, (the T. S. McEwen), and an even bigger one, more like the Hunter, the Sir William Hoy. And then the designed settled into the smaller ones of 154ft and 3250 iHp which were the backbone of every SA harbour came in the 1930s. So when you saw them in the 60s, they would have been 30 years old already. Finally (apart from two modern versions of the 1930s class, one to make up for a tug sunk during WWII and one to allow a 1901-built tug to be scrapped in Durban), five larger oil burners were built, same engines as the 1930s class, same hull (modernised) as the Sir William Hoy, which were the culmination of the design. Those would only have been a few years old when you saw them in the 1960s.
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  #28  
Old 21st August 2014, 11:16
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Then of course there was the R.B.WATERSTONE which was the 'odd ball', oil burner hull but coal fired. Most of the tug masters thought she was under powered but fill all her water tanks and she almost submerged until the belting was very near touching the water (probably then 6- 8 inches overloaded), get a good head of steam and I thought she handled almost as well as the oil burners. Her water capacity came in handy after the ANITA MONTE was towed into False Bay. We ran a continuous shuttle service from Simons' Town to her at anchor for about 10 days. 240 tonnes a trip. Getting back into Simons' Town empty of water was exciting to say the least.
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  #29  
Old 21st August 2014, 11:40
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When I was a cadet with B & C in the mid 70's was acquainted with a master on the tugs - he was a keen railway modeller and I used to carry his models down from the UK.

Spent many happy days in Cape Town on the tugs, greatest memory was the engineers working the twin engines - no telegraphs were answered, the engines were handled entirely by the reversing gear. Not having to answer bells meant that manoeuvering could be instantaneous. At the time the first Voith Schnieder tugs were appearing on the scene and there was great rivalry between the steam tugs and the diesel guys, hence the way of running the engines. They could walk the tugs sideways and do things unimaginable to the early operators.

The coal tugs would sometimes be rotated to Walvis Bay, this was always an advenure as they would coal up and restock at Luderitz Bay en route, often with coal on deck.

One issue they had in the end was with the new generation of container vessels - the high freeboard on container stack would create wind shadow and the coal burners had trouble finding draft. Not so woth the graceful lines of the mail boats.
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  #30  
Old 21st August 2014, 14:26
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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R. B. Waterston

Quote:
Originally Posted by woodend View Post
Then of course there was the R.B.WATERSTONE which was the 'odd ball', oil burner hull but coal fired. Most of the tug masters thought she was under powered but fill all her water tanks and she almost submerged until the belting was very near touching the water (probably then 6- 8 inches overloaded), get a good head of steam and I thought she handled almost as well as the oil burners. Her water capacity came in handy after the ANITA MONTE was towed into False Bay. We ran a continuous shuttle service from Simons' Town to her at anchor for about 10 days. 240 tonnes a trip. Getting back into Simons' Town empty of water was exciting to say the least.
Dear John,
I must admit that the Waterston has always been a huge puzzle to me as an engineer. It was a pity that she was the 'odd-ball', the only sort-of dud, because she was quite good looking in her way. Her engines were exactly the same as the other tugs. As you know, after the massive engines of the Sir William Hoy (and apart from the J. D. White which had Plenty and Sons version of 1500 iHp engines - Charles Hill and Son, Bristol, didn't make their own engines), all the tugs had the same engine specs: 17" (HP), 29" (IP) & 48" (LP) by a 30" stroke. Now you can understand a little variation between two sisters, like the Hugo being 3099 iHp and the F. C. Sturrock being 3269 iHp on trial ... but the Waterston was only 2796 iHp on exactly the same engines as all the rest of them! And it wasn't just the coal burning boilers as the Watermeyer was 3251 iHp and the Schermbrucker was 3393 iHp !!!
I even obtained the full trial diagram from Glasgow University Archives hoping to find an answer, like different valve settings, but no, it was 2796 iHp fully linked out.
All I could see was that the boiler pressure never got above around180 lb/sq.in on the full power run but reached the full 200 on the half power runs. Maybe her boilers didn't have the same capacity as the older craft? We'll never know now as no amount of research has turned up a set of drawings of the 1930s craft's boilers or the Waterston's!
But I knew another master who liked his time on the Waterston once she was kept as deep as possible, Pearson, I think his name was.


Thanks for your info.

Scott
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  #31  
Old 20th May 2018, 10:15
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FG Wolmarans FG Wolmarans is offline  
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Hi everyone.

Really hope I'm at the right place for this. In roughly 1978, I had the opportunity of a lifetime, I was invited by a friend of mine that worked on the TH Watermeyer to come and visit him while it was docked. Wow I could not resist so I went aboard the tug. He showed me around the vessel Decks engine room and all. I was amazed by the size of those steam engines. They then had to go and dump ash out the harbor. This was exciting, but the best was still to come. After they dumped the ash they had a call to come and assist in docking a large vessel in the harbor. This was nice to see how the tugs worked in harmony docking the vessel.
That experience will forever stay with me. Now for the big question, is there any one that could please help me obtain a set of plans for this Tug (TH Watermeyer) as I would like to build a 1/48th scale model of it. It should if I have it right come it at approximately 930 mm which should be a nice size to work on. Would like to do something like this before I retire. All help would be appreciated.
Thanking you all
Frederik Wolmarans
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  #32  
Old 20th May 2018, 11:43
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Dear Frederick,
The T. H. Watermeyer was a wonderful tug. I knew the PE and Durban tugs better and spent many school holidays on them because of various members of my family being on the tugs.
As regards drawings, the drawings of the T. H. Watermeyer are one trip to the print shop away as I have what now must be the only complete collection of all the old steam tugs' drawings.
All the drawings are 1/4" - 1ft, i.e. 1:48 scale. I can print them or put them in pdf format on a CD or a memory stick for you as long as you can be sure that the print shop you use prints them exactly at the correct size. Many just print them to fit their paper which is useless.
Hoping to hear from you.
If you are in Cape Town, it will be very easy to get the drawings to you. If not you will need to give me a postal address.
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  #33  
Old 20th May 2018, 15:36
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FG Wolmarans FG Wolmarans is offline  
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Originally Posted by 3rdEng View Post
Dear Frederick,
The T. H. Watermeyer was a wonderful tug. I knew the PE and Durban tugs better and spent many school holidays on them because of various members of my family being on the tugs.
As regards drawings, the drawings of the T. H. Watermeyer are one trip to the print shop away as I have what now must be the only complete collection of all the old steam tugs' drawings.
All the drawings are 1/4" - 1ft, i.e. 1:48 scale. I can print them or put them in pdf format on a CD or a memory stick for you as long as you can be sure that the print shop you use prints them exactly at the correct size. Many just print them to fit their paper which is useless.
Hoping to hear from you.
If you are in Cape Town, it will be very easy to get the drawings to you. If not you will need to give me a postal address.
Hi Scott

Thanks for your quick response. Must say that this forum is very much alive compared to others.

PS. PM Sent

Regards

Frederik Wolmarans
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  #34  
Old 21st May 2018, 13:04
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Three South African steam tugs are mentioned in a new book by Ian Dear, 'The Tattie Lads'. It's the first book ever on the Royal Navy's Rescue Tug Service - there was even no mention of the rescue tugs in the four-volume official history of the Royal Navy by Stephen Roskill.
So at last, carefully researched, there is proof that the Sir David Hunter was in fact the prototype of the Royal Navy's Resolve class tugs (pg. 12). Also, for the first time, it is confirmed that the E. S. Steytler, starting on her delivery voyage on the 2nd September 1939 (or Theodor Woker as she was first named), on her delivery voyage to South Africa, picked up survivors from the Athenia, the first ship torpedoed in WWII. She returned to the Clyde with the survivors and was immediately requisition by the Royal Navy as HMS Stalwart. Along with the RN Saint class tugs, St Olaves and St Clears, she towed lighters to pick up soldiers from Dunkirk May-June 1940. In later years, the renamed E. S. Steytler's crew could point to damage from strafing by Stuka dive bombers.
She was returned to South Africa early in 1942 and en route, picked up a damaged Flower Class corvette, HMS Bellwort, in Lagos and towed her to Cape Town for repair in Simon's Town. The leg from Lagos to Walvis Bay is probably the longest single tow by this class of tug, longer even that Capt Percy Sharp's rescue of the Irmgaard Horn in June 1965 on the Otto Siedle, when she sailed 1114 nautical miles in total.
The Watermeyer was completed in October 1939 and was immediately requisitioned as HMS Watermeyer. George Young writes that she was very wet and failed in a rescue voyage of a battle ship in the North Sea and was returned to South Africa. The real story is that she sailed from the Clyde to the aid of Lord Louis Mountbatten's HMS Kelly which was torpedoed by an E-boat on 9th May 1940. The Watermeyer arrived just after dawn on 12th May and successfully delivered the Kelly to the Tyne, arriving in the evening. There was constant air attack on the Kelly.
A little different to George Young's version.
So two tugs with really great history.
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  #35  
Old 21st May 2018, 13:05
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Three South African steam tugs are mentioned in a new book by Ian Dear, 'The Tattie Lads'. It's the first book ever on the Royal Navy's Rescue Tug Service - there was even no mention of the rescue tugs in the four-volume official history of the Royal Navy by Stephen Roskill.
So at last, carefully researched, there is proof that the Sir David Hunter was in fact the prototype of the Royal Navy's Resolve class tugs (pg. 12). Also, for the first time, it is confirmed that the E. S. Steytler, starting on her delivery voyage on the 2nd September 1939 (or Theodor Woker as she was first named), on her delivery voyage to South Africa, picked up survivors from the Athenia, the first ship torpedoed in WWII. She returned to the Clyde with the survivors and was immediately requisition by the Royal Navy as HMS Stalwart. Along with the RN Saint class tugs, St Olaves and St Clears, she towed lighters to pick up soldiers from Dunkirk May-June 1940. In later years, the renamed E. S. Steytler's crew could point to damage from strafing by Stuka dive bombers.
She was returned to South Africa early in 1942 and en route, picked up a damaged Flower Class corvette, HMS Bellwort, in Lagos and towed her to Cape Town for repair in Simon's Town. The leg from Lagos to Walvis Bay is probably the longest single tow by this class of tug, longer even that Capt Percy Sharp's rescue of the Irmgaard Horn in June 1965 on the Otto Siedle, when she sailed 1114 nautical miles in total.
The Watermeyer was completed in October 1939 and was immediately requisitioned as HMS Watermeyer. George Young writes that she was very wet and failed in a rescue voyage of a battle ship in the North Sea and was returned to South Africa. The real story is that she sailed from the Clyde to the aid of Lord Louis Mountbatten's HMS Kelly which was torpedoed by an E-boat on 9th May 1940. The Watermeyer arrived just after dawn on 12th May and successfully delivered the Kelly to the Tyne, arriving in the evening. There was constant air attack on the Kelly.
A little different to George Young's version.
So two tugs with really great history.
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  #36  
Old 23rd August 2018, 17:45
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FG Wolmarans FG Wolmarans is offline  
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Plans for the TH Watermeyer

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3rdEng View Post
Dear Frederick,
The T. H. Watermeyer was a wonderful tug. I knew the PE and Durban tugs better and spent many school holidays on them because of various members of my family being on the tugs.
As regards drawings, the drawings of the T. H. Watermeyer are one trip to the print shop away as I have what now must be the only complete collection of all the old steam tugs' drawings.
All the drawings are 1/4" - 1ft, i.e. 1:48 scale. I can print them or put them in pdf format on a CD or a memory stick for you as long as you can be sure that the print shop you use prints them exactly at the correct size. Many just print them to fit their paper which is useless.
Hoping to hear from you.
If you are in Cape Town, it will be very easy to get the drawings to you. If not you will need to give me a postal address.
Hi Scott

Any progress on the plans yet?

Regards
Frederik Wolmarans
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  #37  
Old 10th September 2018, 12:17
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Plans

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Originally Posted by Old Se Dog View Post
th watermeyer
Hi Old Se Dog

Yes thats the one, I have received a beautifull set of plans from Scott "3rdEng" What a nice guy.

Scott once again thank you very much for all you have done.

Regards

Frederik Wolmarans
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  #38  
Old 10th September 2018, 15:07
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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Originally Posted by SeamusMartin View Post
That would be fantastic, Robin any help with this is greatly appreciated.

I have made a small website with my pictures of the S A steam tugs if you are interested it is at:
http://www.geocities.com/seamusmartin9/
please could you direct me to the website of your sar tugs - i have a few pdf formats of plans of the old tugs and a good collection of pictures of them many thanks
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  #39  
Old 10th September 2018, 15:15
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Hi. I have all the tugs drawings from builders plans on pdf. Also I have all the accurate tech info which has taken years to collect and has been checked against Builders data and SAR&H SMEs records.
Anyone interested, just contact me.
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  #40  
Old 10th September 2018, 22:32
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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are you still active on this site - would appreciatte feedback re tug plans thank you
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  #41  
Old 11th September 2018, 15:50
3rdEng 3rdEng is offline  
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Old Steam Tug Plans

Yes, occasionally. But I pick up threads via shipsnostalgia notifications.
Just send me a private message and I'll reply.
Which tugs are you interested in? I can try sending pdfs by e-mail if you give me an e-mail address. Otherwise, if you're in South Africa, I can print them and send them by PostNet.
I can also furnish accurate technical details from the old SAR&H SME's spec tables, cross-checked against the plans themselves, Lloyd's List and whichever of the tugs trial results diagrams I have been able to obtain from Glasgow University Archives.
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  #42  
Old 12th September 2018, 01:00
SeamusMartin SeamusMartin is offline  
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Hello Old Se Doggy, My old website was hosted by geosities unfortunately they closed down their hosting services and with the lack of traffic I decided not to find a new host. My pictures aren’t of a great quality either, they are scans of instamatic photos. (There are some really good ones on the Internet if search for them.). I’ll send you a few via email if you like when I get home.
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  #43  
Old 12th September 2018, 02:52
SeamusMartin SeamusMartin is offline  
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Speaking of websites, this one is fantastic, it is quite large and mainly deals with the railways but it has a few pages on the harbours around South Africa. The pages start with the development of the harbour and at about 1/4 down the page you will see many pictures of the SAR&H tugs. Many of them are action shots.

Cape Town

https://sites.google.com/site/soulor...le-bay-harbour

Durban

https://sites.google.com/site/soulor...-harbour-craft

Only a few at the top.
Mossel Bay

https://sites.google.com/site/soulor...y-to-klipplaat

Enjoy.
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  #44  
Old 12th September 2018, 10:29
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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hello - and thank you - any pictures are welcome - and i can reciprocate with a lot i have on file
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  #45  
Old 12th September 2018, 10:39
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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have sent you a private message - thank you for the reply - i was off line for a few days
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  #46  
Old 12th September 2018, 10:42
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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thank you - have sent you private message
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  #47  
Old 12th September 2018, 10:44
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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your website is not accessible - have you closed it?
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