T.I.D.tugs of WW2 - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
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T.I.D.tugs of WW2

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  #26  
Old 2nd August 2019, 16:47
Stephen Carter Stephen Carter is offline  
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Tids

Bill,

I do not think it was Jack Martin who attempted the conversion. I think Jack was involved in a business called A C Cranes at Dublin and Freddy Oldham was Frederick Oldham Ltd of Liverpool, scrap dealers. They often bought and sold vessels in partnership including quite a number of tugs over the years. I am pretty sure that Carmet Tug Co bought the Dunheron, ex Golden Cross, from them and going back to the 1930s Frederick Oldham Ltd stripped the machinery out of the concrete tug Cretegaff when owned by Portus. I think the Sir Milne was acquired by some other parties who carried out the conversion, I have a vague recollection of her being intended for use diving on wrecks to salvage non ferrous materials, but I cannot remember who told me this, possibly the late Captain Ian Metcalfe.
Stephen
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  #27  
Old 5th August 2019, 15:59
loco loco is offline
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There used to be a steam tug in Harwich/Felixstowe named GARY GREY (GARY GRAY?) which was owned by the owner of Grey tugs/Felixarc towage.

Was this a TID, please? I remember seeing it steam, and on Grey's moorings of Shotley, many years ago, but then it just seemed to have disappeared.

Martyn

Last edited by loco; 5th August 2019 at 16:04..
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  #28  
Old 5th August 2019, 16:18
BillH BillH is offline
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If the same vessel, then no, not built until mid fifties and diesel powered

GARY GRAY
O.N. 186095. 37g. 0n. 56.9 x 16.4 x 5.9 feet.
6-cyl. 4 S.C.S.A. (8” x 11”) Blackstone ER4M type by R. A. Lister (Marine Sales) Ltd., Dursley. 360bhp. 10kts. 5 tons bollard pull.
1954: Completed as JAYCEE by P. K. Harris & Sons Ltd., Appledore (Yard No. 55) for Clements, Knowling & Company Ltd., London.
21.8.1954: Registered at London.
21.2.1962: Purchased by the United Towing Company Ltd., Hull and renamed LIGHTERMAN.
21.1.1970: Owners restyled as United Towing Ltd.
1974: Humber Tugs Ltd., appointed as managers.
20.9.1977: Sold to Felixarc Marine Ltd. (Donald Gray, manager), Felixstowe and renamed GARY GRAY.
1988: Sold to Heysham Boat Charters (Simpson & Sons), Heysham.
1995: Sank at her moorings at Heysham. Declared beyond economical repair. Subsequently refitted for Hampson Marine Towing, Fleetwood.
199x: Reported sold to Silas Oates, Falmouth and renamed GARRY GRAY for service at Holy Loch.
3.2005: Offered for sale at 37,000, but continues laid up in 2010.
201x: Sank at moorings in Holyhead. Subsequently raised and removed for breaking at Garston
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  #29  
Old 5th August 2019, 17:51
loco loco is offline
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Thanks for the reply, Bill, about GARY GRAY.

I'm sure we had a smallish steam tug in Harwich harbour in the mid 80s-maybe it was TID 172 from Mistley, though. Whichever one it was, there was lots of smoke from the funnel when it was moving!

Martyn
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  #30  
Old 9th August 2019, 11:31
shinz shinz is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russellward View Post
A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
Hi Russell, from memory, there was a YTL(?) moored in the Kaiapoi river up till about the time of the earthquakes, maybe earlier, I think I have some photos of it somewhere but not digital. I need a scanner.
Steve.
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  #31  
Old 9th August 2019, 20:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by russellward View Post
A consortium of NZ boatbuilders with limited experience in steel built around 20 YTLs for the US Army for service in the Pacific during WW2. The first few were built in Australia and deemed unsafe but with some tweaks to the lines done by the RNZN Dockyard, they proved to be very capable tugs. I think the hull shape was quite aesthetic. With 14 tons of direct reversing 6 cyl Atlas Imperial and huge fuel tanks down low, they had a massive righting moment and were certainly uncomfortable in a steep sea (aren't most tugs?). The NZ Navy took three uncompleted ships post war and finished them off. One became a dockyard tug, one a diving tender and one was based in Westport. Fine ships and about the only time I've had a yodel at the leward rail at sea was on the dockyard one Arataki. But only the one time....
Russell , the two tugs were in service at the dock yard when I served my time and I worked on the engines of both while in the ICE shop .
I posted long ago about the mix up of the telegraph wires , must find and repost.

Bob
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  #32  
Old 10th August 2019, 09:13
russellward russellward is offline  
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
Russell , the two tugs were in service at the dock yard when I served my time and I worked on the engines of both while in the ICE shop .
I posted long ago about the mix up of the telegraph wires , must find and repost.

Bob
Yep please do. Some skippers had difficulty manoeuvring in night corners as it was. Some used to play great tunes on the telegraph without waiting for the engineer to get it on. Brought a roar from below audible through the skylight. "Make up yer f....g mind yer bastard" and then the sound of the air compressor having to be started because there was precious little air left for another start.
I heard about the Manawanui running a bearing and it being remachined in situ with a new white metal bearing to suit.
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  #33  
Old 10th August 2019, 09:15
russellward russellward is offline  
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Originally Posted by shinz View Post
Hi Russell, from memory, there was a YTL(?) moored in the Kaiapoi river up till about the time of the earthquakes, maybe earlier, I think I have some photos of it somewhere but not digital. I need a scanner.
Steve.
Might have been Arataki on her inexorable journey to the knackers in Dunedin. But she'd have been there before the earthquakes. I don't think James O'Brien made it that far south once she left Westport.
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  #34  
Old 10th August 2019, 11:00
shinz shinz is offline
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Originally Posted by russellward View Post
Might have been Arataki on her inexorable journey to the knackers in Dunedin. But she'd have been there before the earthquakes. I don't think James O'Brien made it that far south once she left Westport.
Hi Russell, spot on I think, this post from this site https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...aiapoi/cat/505 confirms it for me at any rate, I'm sorry to read it was scrapped, a quick google found me some more info on that too. It was probably about 10 years before Dave's post I saw it there I think.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/l...e-ends-slipway. I thought she was quite a handsome little vessel, much like the TIDs in their own way.
Steve.

Last edited by shinz; 10th August 2019 at 19:29..
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  #35  
Old 10th August 2019, 11:20
alaric alaric is offline  
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We have debated what the initials T I D stand for.
Now what about Y T L?
Being American, could it possibly be Years Too Late??
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  #36  
Old 10th August 2019, 12:08
loco loco is offline
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Having spoken to a former tug skipper, he informs me that GARY GRAY was indeed a motor tug, and that it was TID172 which was on the mooring buoys in Harwich harbour during the mid 80s.

Martyn
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  #37  
Old 11th August 2019, 00:55
russellward russellward is offline  
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Originally Posted by shinz View Post
Hi Russell, spot on I think, this post from this site https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galle...aiapoi/cat/505 confirms it for me at any rate, I'm sorry to read it was scrapped, a quick google found me some more info on that too. It was probably about 10 years before Dave's post I saw it there I think.
https://www.odt.co.nz/news/dunedin/l...e-ends-slipway. I thought she was quite a handsome little vessel, much like the TIDs in their own way.
Steve.
She was in reasonable nick when she hit Dunedin as part of Swann's Navy. He who stitched the local Area Health Board up for countless millions with felonious accounts for IT services never rendered. He was caught out and the liquidator, keen to ket his fees out of the entrails flogged her off for a pittance along with the 60' diesel tug Hikurangi. Arataki was scrapped to raise some dosh for the refurbishment of poor old similarly neglected Hik.
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  #38  
Old 11th August 2019, 01:26
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I seem to remember that one of the tugs and a 72' HDML were moored in the river alongside the Paeroa Maritime Museum . The tug disappeared but the ML remained for a while. I am about to drive past on Thursday so I will check.
Russell, re the tug telegraph, cannot find the post but it related to the fitting of new stainless steel actuating wires from the wheelhouse to the engine room .
The fitter and his apprentice ran the wires through a devious course , connected same and tested for free and easy full scale action but they failed to check that 'full ahead' on the bridge rang full ahead in The ER.
They had lost the wire end positions when the wires crossed over out of sight so when the skipper rang half ahead to clear the berth the ER responded with half astern and further double rings saw the tug stern trying to move Stanley point further north. A lot of yelling , a lot of embarrassment all round.
It was a longer story so if I find it .........
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  #39  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:02
russellward russellward is offline  
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If all goes to schedule, my illustrated book on this subject matter should be in print in early September.

A4 of around 110 pages, it details the design concept, pre-fabricated construction methods etc and the careers of all 182 vessels.
Put me down for a copy please, Bill. Autographed title page of course!
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  #40  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:15
russellward russellward is offline  
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Originally Posted by spongebob View Post
I seem to remember that one of the tugs and a 72' HDML were moored in the river alongside the Paeroa Maritime Museum . The tug disappeared but the ML remained for a while. I am about to drive past on Thursday so I will check.
Russell, re the tug telegraph, cannot find the post but it related to the fitting of new stainless steel actuating wires from the wheelhouse to the engine room .
The fitter and his apprentice ran the wires through a devious course , connected same and tested for free and easy full scale action but they failed to check that 'full ahead' on the bridge rang full ahead in The ER.
They had lost the wire end positions when the wires crossed over out of sight so when the skipper rang half ahead to clear the berth the ER responded with half astern and further double rings saw the tug stern trying to move Stanley point further north. A lot of yelling , a lot of embarrassment all round.
It was a longer story so if I find it .........
The old back to front telegraphs trick. And they fell for it again! That was the ex HMNZDT Manawanui. She was sold to the Maritime Park at Paeroa NZ for a dollar or so and then (in typical museum style) neglected her for 30 years by which time her engine was pronounced to be seized (I wonder why!) and then she started weeping oil from somewhere and the local bureaukrauts demanded that she be destroyed forthwith if she couldn't be moved under her own steam. So they panicked and the crane man gave his services in exchange for the engine which he hoisted out in one and had running within months back at his shop. Nothing wrong with it at all. Still gets run up for display on occasion.
So now we have but one left in original running condition -the James O'Brien in Picton NZ.
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  #41  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:27
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[QUOTE=russellward;2997105]The old back to front telegraphs trick. And they fell for it again! That was the ex HMNZDT Manawanui. She was sold to the Maritime Park at Paeroa NZ for a dollar or so and then (in typical museum style) neglected her for 30 years by which time her engine was pronounced to be seized (I wonder why!) and then she started weeping oil from somewhere and the local bureaukrauts demanded that she be destroyed forthwith if she couldn't be moved under her own steam. So they panicked and the crane man gave his services in exchange for the engine which he hoisted out in one and had running within months back at his shop. Nothing wrong with it at all. Still gets run up for display on occasion.
So now we have but one left in original running condition -the James O'Brien in Picton NZ.[/QUOTE

That has brought my memories into line, yes it was the diving tender tug . Which one had the Fairbanks -Morse engine? , it was always referred to as the Douglas Fairbanks engine.
Great time , great memories in the ICE shop what With Lieutenant Wilkie and his fishery protection patrol coming home Friday after a few days in the gulf with confiscated undersized crayfish selling cheap to the boys .
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  #42  
Old 11th August 2019, 03:46
russellward russellward is offline  
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The three I knew -Manawanui, Arataki and Kawateri (who became James O'Brien) all had Atlas Imperials but we did build 20 or so of them and a Fairbanks may have slipped in somewhere.
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  #43  
Old 11th August 2019, 04:18
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The three I knew -Manawanui, Arataki and Kawateri (who became James O'Brien) all had Atlas Imperials but we did build 20 or so of them and a Fairbanks may have slipped in somewhere.
Correct, I have found my old list,


The Fairbanks Morse was aboard the old liberty boat
The Officers motor boat had a Gardner
The Commodores Barge had a Ford Mercury V8 conversion.
The Fairmile's and 72 ft HDMLs had Gray Marine diesels that replaced the Atlas engines and when I left there was talk of replacing the Grays with Fodens to standardise with British Admiralty.


Bob
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  #44  
Old 14th August 2019, 17:37
CaptainKiwiSteve CaptainKiwiSteve is offline  
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T I d tugs

Greetings Cpt Steve Buttling here now living in the USA
I worked 5 years on HMNZ Dockyard tug Arataki with then skipper Don Moore Engineer Bert Williamson Peter Robinson Vince Harding and Tony Steele .Aratakis i d YTL 627
Manawanui was then the dive school platform with both powered by Atlas Imperials ( singles) A very lively ride in a head sea and a roller in beam seas !! Had some great times aboard her with a great crew
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  #45  
Old 17th August 2019, 16:11
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I've just visited and been aboard the BRENT in Maldon. No charge, donations gratefully accepted. They are currently trying to raise money to replace the boiler tubes.

The TID 172 alongside her has had quite a lot of hull plating replaced. some of it a bit crudely. I understood from the volunteers on the BRENT that the TID 172 is being moved to a new owner on the Medway; but there is currently a problem in arranging the necessary paperwork for the tow.

Martyn
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