Listing Of Crown Princess - Ships Nostalgia
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Listing Of Crown Princess

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  #1  
Old 19th July 2006, 01:07
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Listing Of Crown Princess

PORT CANAVERAL -- A month-old cruise ship crawled back to port today after it suddenly lurched left and sent passengers flying, an unusual incident at sea that injured nearly 50 people, including two critically.

The Crown Princess, a 113,000-ton vessel that can hold about 3,000 passengers and 1,200 crew, was about 11 miles out of Port Canaveral and headed for New York when it listed sharply to the port side at about 3:40 p.m., authorities and witnesses said.

"There were people running for life jackets, and then afterward a lot of people hugging and crying, people looking for children," Carol O'Connell told NBC's Miami affiliate, WTVJ-TV, by cell phone. "The captain came on and made an announcement that there was a problem with the steering mechanism and the captain sounded so terrified, which led to my feeling of more panic."

O'Connell said she saw tables overturned and broken glass everywhere.

Jim Watson, spokesman for Cape Canaveral Fire Department, said the incident critically injured at least two people, both of whom would were being evacuated by helicopter to hospitals. Fourteen others had serious injuries and 30 more were minor, he said.

A child was among the most seriously hurt, he said, but he didn't have details on the victim's age or gender.

Brevard County Sheriff Jack Parker said passengers were being urged to stay on the ship overnight as a "floating hotel'' and to disembark todaywed. He said the cruise had been cancelled and that the boat would probably be in port three to four days for an investigation.

The ship was on a nine-day western Caribbean cruise, sailing roundtrip out of New York, with calls at Grand Turk, Ocho Rios and Grand Cayman. Port Canaveral was the last port of call before returning to New York. It was christened last month in New York.

The ship is owned by Princess Cruises, one of 12 brands operated by Miami-based Carnival Corp. The company said the ship was safe said that it was investigating the cause of the list.

Julie Benson spokeswoman for Princess Cruise Lines said some passengers suffered "fractures, bruises" and "some more serious than that."

She said the company is still looking into the cause of the listing, including a possible problem with the steering or other mechanics of the ship.

"We don't know the answer to that yet," she said. "We're looking at a number of issues, that being one of them."

At least 14 ambulances, eight fire trucks and three medivac helicopters stood by as the ship slowly entered port at about 7 p.m.

U.S. Coast Guard Lt. Cmdr. Chris O'Neil the Coast Guard got an SOS from the ship about 4 p.m. reporting several injuries. None of the injuries were life threatening or required anyone to be airlifted from the ship, he said.

Coast Guard safety inspectors examined the boat before they cleared it at 6 p.m. to enter Port Canaveral to dock. O'Neil said the ship had to be deemed safe before it was allowed to dock.

Safety inspectors will determine what happened, and they will have to be satisfied there are no mechanical problems before the ship will be allowed to set sail again, he said. The Coast Guard will also conduct an investigation, he said.

Christine Fischer, spokeswoman for the International Council of Cruise Lines, said a listing problem is unusual for a cruise ship.

"It's not very common," she said. "This is an isolated incident."

Benson agreed that extreme listing is rare, but she said her company has experienced the problem before. She didn't immediately have details but said it resulted in some minor injuries.
  #2  
Old 19th July 2006, 08:31
Knut Knut is offline  
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Strange

The upper decks were flooded, while the lower decks remained dry apparently according to the reports on BBC. Was the ship in the Bermuda Triangle at the time?
Knut.
  #3  
Old 19th July 2006, 08:33
rushie rushie is offline  
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CNN report in Burntisland's thread.

Cheers.

Rushie
  #4  
Old 19th July 2006, 10:06
Tony Breach Tony Breach is offline
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Interesting comments by Christine Fischer of the International Council of Cruise Lines - "It's not very common. This is an isolated incident." One wonders which part the non-maritime public are expected to beleive!

On the subject of problems with passenger ships does anyone keep stats on problems as this would seem to me to be an interesting project or hobby? The P&O group alone have suffered a serious & fatal fire, a "mystery isolated" listing, a couple of week's of not being able to operate the prime movers & several cases of D&V within the last few years. Then we have had Cunard with a chequered history to the classic QE2 including serious boiler problems which led to re-engining. a couple of groundings and the vane wheel fiasco. The unlovely QM2 has so far had only a damaged pod & a crew murder.

The above is only a scratching of the surface: an informed list of all SNAFUs during a ship's life would be interesting if not mind-boggling. Some-one must know.
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Old 19th July 2006, 10:37
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I assume the flooding to the top decks was from the swimming pools so the list must have been quite large.

Paul
  #6  
Old 19th July 2006, 10:40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Breach
Interesting comments by Christine Fischer of the International Council of Cruise Lines - "It's not very common. This is an isolated incident." One wonders which part the non-maritime public are expected to beleive!

On the subject of problems with passenger ships does anyone keep stats on problems as this would seem to me to be an interesting project or hobby? The P&O group alone have suffered a serious & fatal fire, a "mystery isolated" listing, a couple of week's of not being able to operate the prime movers & several cases of D&V within the last few years. Then we have had Cunard with a chequered history to the classic QE2 including serious boiler problems which led to re-engining. a couple of groundings and the vane wheel fiasco. The unlovely QM2 has so far had only a damaged pod & a crew murder.

The above is only a scratching of the surface: an informed list of all SNAFUs during a ship's life would be interesting if not mind-boggling. Some-one must know.
Tony try this website it will cause sleepless nights
Paul http://www.internationalcruisevictims.org/
  #7  
Old 19th July 2006, 10:51
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Hi Everybody See this site for Pics of Crown Princess it is reported that she did a 180 degree turn in a couple of hundred yards and sent pool water down the stairs.

http://www.wesh.com/news/9537321/detail.html?taf=orl

Paul
  #8  
Old 19th July 2006, 14:38
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Remember previous posts about the swimming pool effects.

From todays news paper.

Daus, of Brooklyn, N.Y., said several of the decks were flooded and the elevators were not working. "The water came gushing out of the pool like a mini tsunami," he said. "It was really scary. People who were in the pool were shoved out."
  #9  
Old 19th July 2006, 14:48
newda898 newda898 is offline
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Gosh, sounds pretty scary to me.

I can imagine the horror and panic as the people started realising that the ship kept leaning.
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Old 19th July 2006, 15:15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul UK
...it is reported that she did a 180 degree turn in a couple of hundred yards and sent pool water down the stairs.

http://www.wesh.com/news/9537321/detail.html?taf=orl

Paul
200 yards of turning radius? That should mean full speed, wheel hard over, and manouvering with both propellers and bow thrusters... and I don't know if it's enough.
If this information comes from a passenger, I believe that it's the effect of his chock, and it's hardly believable.
P.
  #11  
Old 19th July 2006, 16:18
cymruman cymruman is offline  
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seems a bit exaggerated, unless of course they used the handbrake.
  #12  
Old 19th July 2006, 16:28
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Must have been pretty hard turn to tip water out of the pools.

Paul
  #13  
Old 19th July 2006, 17:53
newda898 newda898 is offline
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I like what the CEO of the Port Canaveral Authority says in the follow-up article here:

http://www.wesh.com/news/9540439/detail.html

Quote:
"I think that ships are complicated creatures, much like an airplane
What does he mean by "think" - Does he not know the business that he is in?
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Old 19th July 2006, 23:56
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dom

must of been the bermuda triangla,lurched left,rolled right,?next story will be they pooped one,well a lot of the passengers/guests pooped one
  #15  
Old 20th July 2006, 00:26
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passengers/guest photo of toilet
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  #16  
Old 20th July 2006, 11:42
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The roll effect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by dom
passengers/guest photo of toilet
Picture looks abot right DOM...LOL
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  #17  
Old 20th July 2006, 11:45
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If you read my posts, you will note that I have consistantly said that these giant cruise ships list like mad when turning. You only have to watch them turn at Cowes inward or outbound from Southampton. The taller they are, the more they list. When Arcadia first went into Southampton, she leaned right over when turning at Cowes, more so than Oriana or Aurora. Then when I was aboard both Oriana and Aurora, I filmed the list as we turned at Cowes on my camcorder. And you can see how much she listed in Noway in my gallery when making a simple turn. Canberra never leaned over when turning at Cowes like these bigger ships. I was steering her once and would have panicked had she gone over. I did that once with Arcadia by mistake doing a full turn at speed. She went over, but only because I was turning the wheel right around thinking it would right her!. So when more experienced, I was always mindful when turning.

We are told they these monsters are stable, but it only takes a small accident whatever happened to Crown Princess to cause them to list enough to cause injury. I for one am therefore not in the least bit surprised that this happened because I have been warning about it for so long. I have also warned that due to a different type of passenger not familiar with life aboard a ship that they would panic if there was a problem because there is not enough information in my opinion for non-maritime people having sailed on modern cruise ships as passenger, and the 'line voyage' era as crew. The difference is now so great, it is only a matter of time before there is a serious incident.

Few have agreed with me so far. Well, all I can say is watch this space because Corwn Princess will not be the last accident of its type to happen or last accident of any type. The seas we sailed on are the same dangerous oceans they always were. If cruise ships are to become even bigger, and even more of the attraction than the ports of call, it is surely only a matter of time before one of these floating holiday centres has a serious problem with large loss of life. If you play with fire, you will be burnt. The same goes for the world oceans. If people sail on them without even the basic knowledge of them, or the vessel they are sailing on whether it be a giant cruise ship or a small boat, they could be in deep trouble.

I have always maintained that with a different type of passenger aboard cruise ships nowadays who do not even know basic shipboard terminology that it only a matter of time before there is a serious incident. The information at passenger drill goes in one ear and out of the other for some people who don't even know the question let alone the answer not knowing their port from their starboard. That is why I have suggested basic terminology be printed on the back of cabin doors next to other safety information, but it always reaches deaf ears. The short drill is also seen as a big joke and part of the holiday fun to some passengers as they bump into each other with their life jackets heading for a public room that is packed out. On Oriana in May, I made it into th back of the public room having been swiped around the head a few times with a lifekacket. Then the officer in the middle of the room praised those in front for coming early. Yes, you would in a real emergency wouldn't you?!. I told this clown afterwards what I thought of his remarks!.

This Friday, schools in the UK begin 7 weeks of holiday. There will be tragedies along our coastlines this summer just like summers before. People never learn from the fate of others. Every year, children and adults die because they have no knowledge of the sea, local tides and currents or how to sail a boat or the rules of the sea be it a dinghy, yacht, jet ski or whatever. They don't listen to weather forecasts or listen to any advice. Their excuse is that they are on holiday, and don't want it spoiled by rules and regulations.

Peope will die this summer in the UK through nobodies fault than their own, and all because they throw caution to the wind just because they are on holiday whether it be eating like a pig, or invloved in outdoor leisure without making plans. How do I know all this. Well, I performed autopsies on them every year making exactly the same mistakes, never learning from those the year before despite our best efforts to educate people. In fact, it has already happened. I am still in contact with my former colleagues both locally and countywide. The 'Holidaymaker Syndrome' as I called it is into full swing again and will get even worse from the weekend.

I know that I have strayed from listing ships, but my point is that I have foreseen all this due to being at sea, and latterly in the Post Mortem Room. I can only tell of what I have seen with my own eyes, and how so many people died needlessly. If people don't listen to safety advice, or don't want to listen that is up to them. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I once suggested(with tongue in cheek) to the head of tourism here on the island who was alarmed at the amount of holidaymakers dying by accident or whatever that it would make life easier for himself and his staff when dealing with grieving relatives if they gave all holidaymakers a list of Funeral Directors when they got off the ferry. He did not seem too keen?!!. David

Last edited by Pompeyfan; 20th July 2006 at 11:55..
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Old 20th July 2006, 12:59
Peter4447 Peter4447 is offline  
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Moving briefly off the subject, I have got to agree totally with Pompeyfan and his comments in regard to the holidaymaker problem. Spent a bit of time over the last couple of weeks, in the glorious weather, at Shaldon (opposite side to Teignmouth) and as anyone knows who is familiar with the port, the tides are very strong indeed. But as always its the same old story, unload the boat off the trailer, don't bother with lifejackets and it will be all OK because we've got a mobile phone, if we need help. I am NOT putting everybody in the same box with this comment but you do see it happening over and over again.
I do not know the Harbour Master at Teignmouth personally but I do take my hat off to him, as he spends hours cruising around in his RIB, keeping a close eye on all that goes on and advising of the dangers when he spots swimmers, anglers or whoever straying into dangerous waters - and heaven help the speedboat merchants if they exceed the harbour speed limit!
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Last edited by Peter4447; 20th July 2006 at 13:03..
  #19  
Old 20th July 2006, 15:35
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I wonder if one of the stabilisers was accidentally deployed..
As for the comments of Christine Fischer, spokeswoman for the International Council of Cruise Lines,
"It's not very common," she said. "This is an isolated incident."
So was the Titanic.
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Old 20th July 2006, 18:45
Jeff Egan Jeff Egan is offline
 
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Whey hey hinney me bairn, David you must be a barrel of laughs to go on holiday with, I guess you won't need a carnation behind your left ear when you meet up with the group in Portsmouth in September, you'll be the one with the life jacket on clutching your 1973 volume of the ships lifeboat manual.
  #21  
Old 20th July 2006, 21:55
john g john g is offline
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You can mess about with calculations and metacentric heights the fact is these vessels are top heavy, fine in good weather ,try winter north atlantic well they wouldn't risk it. I would agree there was something amiss with the stabilisers and bearing in mind she is only a recent build I would guess the automatic system maybe the cause. It will be interesting if the true facts come out. And as you guys say people on holiday would get very upset.
  #22  
Old 21st July 2006, 10:59
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Full Power Turn

I have been on warships on sea trials when they execute an intended full power turn. It is pretty alarming and we always broadcast a general alert before executing the turn. The unitended application of maximum rudder angle would be very alarming for everyone on board.
There was a similar incident on a new large Channel ferry a couple of months ago. It could be an automatic pilot software glitch.
Just to repeat the many comments that I have made in previous threads, modern cruise ships are not top heavy. The Crown Princess did not roll over. A lot of cruise ships cross the North Atlantic every year for the Summer Northern European season and return to New England / Canada for the Fall Season. They are not suitable for Winter North Atlantic service, because that is not part of their design requirement. In the same way as my wife's car would not make a safe troop carrier in Iraq, nor would my wife wish to park and load a Warrior APC at a supermarket every week.

Fred
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Old 21st July 2006, 11:12
Jeff Egan Jeff Egan is offline
 
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I can vouch for that Fred, I have been on sea trials on Frigates were part of the trial was to build up to full speed then put the wheel hard over both ways, if a general warning was not put out first there would have been injuries, I dont think Frigates are unstable just fast with very fine lines. If the cruise ship was in automatic steering which had a fault or there was a gyro fault or failure this could easily cause the helm to go hard over and at full speed this is not recommended on any ship except in emergency.
  #24  
Old 21st July 2006, 11:35
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I understand what you are saying Fred from a design point of view, and that ships including warships are put through turns at sea at speed on trials. But passengers and crew are being injured when these big ships list for whatever reason in calm seas on a cruise, not trials. Yes, people were injured in heavy seas on my ships, but never as a result automatic pilot software etc. We always had a man on the helm. Canberra and Arcadia never listed like this when turning unless of course either purposely or accidentialy at speed. Perhaps software is the problem, and that companies should return to a man on the helm not relying so much on modern technology?. But nothing can change the fact that Oriana listed badly in dead calm waters of the Norwegian Fjords when making a slight turn at slow speed. Some passengers next to me who were not so good on their feet stumbled. This is surely not acceptable?!. There is a picture in my gallery to prove my point. David
  #25  
Old 21st July 2006, 11:48
iain mac iain mac is offline
 
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was on the dawn princesses delivery voyage when exactly the same thing happened mid atlantic,she suddenly went hard a stbd.only damage done on that occasion was to the expensive stock in the shops as none of it was secured.Red faces all round for the retail staff.
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