Use of Morse by police - Ships Nostalgia
16:33

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Use of Morse by police

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 10th March 2019, 21:31
Worldspan Worldspan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 122
Use of Morse by police

I've seen snippets about how in the 1920s ex RN telegraphists were employed by some police forces to operate radios in patrol cars. Does anyone know about this? Are there refs in books or magazines? Wonder how long it continued ... when did RT take over?

Did police in the UK use CW point to point? I know the French gendarmerie did. There was also a big Interpol net (around 5 mc/s CW) in the 1960s and perhaps later. Presumably there was a UK radio station operated by the police.

I read in a book about Bletchley that one of the Y stations was a Met Police unit at Denmark Hill. From what I remember, this police intercept unit was already in existence before WW2. You'd think that radio intercept would have been a matter for the armed forces even in peacetime. Does anyone know anything about this outfit at Denmark Hill?

W
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 10th March 2019, 22:18
beedeesea beedeesea is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
My location
Posts: 686
Mentioned in National Archives:

http://discovery.nationalarchives.go...ils/r/C2228189

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11th March 2019, 02:20
schris schris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldspan View Post
I've seen snippets about how in the 1920s ex RN telegraphists were employed by some police forces to operate radios in patrol cars. Does anyone know about this? Are there refs in books or magazines? Wonder how long it continued ... when did RT take over?

Did police in the UK use CW point to point? I know the French gendarmerie did. There was also a big Interpol net (around 5 mc/s CW) in the 1960s and perhaps later. Presumably there was a UK radio station operated by the police.

I read in a book about Bletchley that one of the Y stations was a Met Police unit at Denmark Hill. From what I remember, this police intercept unit was already in existence before WW2. You'd think that radio intercept would have been a matter for the armed forces even in peacetime. Does anyone know anything about this outfit at Denmark Hill?

W
It was set up by Harold Kenworthy, who had worked on radio direction finding during the first WW and who later went on to run the large Tunny intercept "Y" station and F.O.R.D.E. at Ivy farm at Knockholt Pound where Knockholt Bowling club is today.

Originally he was on loan from Marconi to the Met to investigate how radio might help the police, but he was later transfered to the Foreign Office when they took over most of the Y function to supply GC&CS which was about to start its 1938 move up to Bletchley.

The Police were mainly interested in Communist cells during the general strike but tried to get the Foreign Office to take over the intercept function.

The old Police Nursing home building still exists at Grove Park Denmark Hill and the grounds were the station was set up still have a BT site & mast visible from the Railway.

There is something about it in Paul Gannon's book "Colossus: Bletchley Park's Greatest Secret"

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Colossus-Bl...s=books&sr=1-1
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11th March 2019, 09:34
Moulder's Avatar
Moulder Moulder is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1971 - 1983
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
My location
Posts: 875
The MNAOA Telegraph often carried recruitment advertisements, in the early 70s, for Radio Officers to work for the Met Police in London.


Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11th March 2019, 11:23
GW3OQK's Avatar
GW3OQK GW3OQK is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 118
About 1958 when I was learning Morse I used to take down Interpol messages within the 3.5 to 3.8 mc/s band. The messages were between European countries and I recall there was a lot of mediocre quality Morse, some sent on bug keys. It was usually in plain language.
73, Andrew
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11th March 2019, 17:11
John Leary's Avatar
John Leary John Leary is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 511
I cannot comment about the early days of radio for the Metropolitan Police Service. However the county police forces in England and Wales were supported by a Home Office Department called the Directorate of Telecommunications (DTels). A brief explanation about county Force radio can be found here https://www.dtels.org/html/history_overview.html . For those with time to spare, a perusal of the remainder of the site is well worth the effort.

Regards

John
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14th March 2019, 12:08
Robert M Hughes Robert M Hughes is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1951 - 1962
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
My Father ex-R.N. telegraphist was in the Police force in this role attached to the R.U.C. on the Fermanagh N.I./ Irish Free State border in 20's.
__________________
Bob Hughes
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14th March 2019, 21:45
Worldspan Worldspan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 122
Thanks for the replies ... all VG.

Interesting that the police were checking Communist cells during the general strike. I didn't know that the latter were so organised.

Also, thanks to Bob Hughes for his input. Did your father tell you how things worked out in practice? I mean, was it a normal police car or some kind of van? Was the gear just plonked down on the rear seat? Or perhaps it was a point to point link between police stations.

I have heard that in the 1930s someone on the south coast was picking up the Edinburgh police.

All good stuff and thanks again.

W
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14th March 2019, 21:59
schris schris is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worldspan View Post
SNIP

Interesting that the police were checking Communist cells during the general strike. I didn't know that the latter were so organised.

SNIP
W
According to Paul Gannon, the Comintern didn't get it's wireless organised until the 1930s.

During the 1926 strike, the police chased down an illicit wireless station only to find that they'd caught the "Daily Mail" who had set up a secret transmitter in case the Post Office workers joined the strike . .

cb
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14th March 2019, 23:35
frankkeavy frankkeavy is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1956 - 1993
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
When I was a kid living in Benalla, Australia, around 1946 the local police Sergeant had been trained to be a R/O but went into the Victorian police force to train (as he put it) hammed fisted police to use Morse from patrol cars.

Frank
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 15th March 2019, 04:54
Mai Pen Rai Mai Pen Rai is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 6
The current Police coms system in UK leased from Airwave is considered too expensive and the contract being ended. To replace they are going for a system based on mobile phone tech.

Errrrr except PTT .. Press To Talk / Boadcast to unlimited numbers of other handsets using mobile phone tech not exist .. the experts were saying .. not me.
Last time I did internet research the government were relying on it being invented. Not sure they know what they doing. Its controversial anyway.

Its gonna be interesting to follow what happens. I guess dialing up to speak only to a control room or 1 other person not what is needed.

Meanwhile .. Im available for employment by the Police if they need to re introduce morse. But I not come cheap. 😨😨😨😨😨&#x1f 628;. My perfect morse might be effected by bumpy roads .. so dont hurl too many QSDs at me.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 16th March 2019, 18:13
31552's Avatar
31552 31552 is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
My location
Posts: 24
zello

https://zello.com/ works just fine.

There are other, similar apps...
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17th March 2019, 02:26
Mai Pen Rai Mai Pen Rai is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Posts: 6
Thanks for reply. Very interesting new development. Looks like the technology has been found. Thanks again.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 19th March 2019, 12:21
Robert M Hughes Robert M Hughes is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1951 - 1962
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 121
Worldspan Hi,
Unable to answer re equipment - sorry.
Bob
__________________
Bob Hughes
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27th March 2019, 23:36
Alan Couchman Alan Couchman is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 13
Hi Worldspan,

An interesting and detailed article here on use of morse by British police in 400KHz and 2MHz bands in the 20's and 30's. All the best. https://brianpearsblog.wordpress.com...n-medium-wave/

Sorry Worldspan - just noticed that this article has already been referenced by John Leary see above) in another form as https://www.dtels.org/html/history_overview.html, though the second version may contain further details. Best regards, Alan

Last edited by Alan Couchman; 27th March 2019 at 23:57.. Reason: See comment above
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 28th March 2019, 14:54
Worldspan Worldspan is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 122
Thanks very much Alan ... what a feast of information from those two links. What a wonderful thing this forum is!
W
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 28th March 2019, 16:56
beedeesea beedeesea is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
My location
Posts: 686
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankkeavy View Post
When I was a kid living in Benalla, Australia, around 1946 the local police Sergeant had been trained to be a R/O but went into the Victorian police force to train (as he put it) hammed fisted police to use Morse from patrol cars.

Frank
Nice "action" photo here:

https://cv.vic.gov.au/stories/a-dive...a-world-first/

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 28th March 2019, 17:01
beedeesea beedeesea is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
My location
Posts: 686
Photo of the Met in action:

https://www.agefotostock.com/age/en/...d/MEV-10425166

Brian
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 29th March 2019, 23:18
frankkeavy frankkeavy is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1956 - 1993
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
Victorian Police

Quote:
Originally Posted by beedeesea View Post
Thank you for the link.

Frank
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 2nd April 2019, 03:15
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18,354
That must be the origin of "ditdahditdit dahdahdah, ditdahditdit dahdahdah, ditdahditdit dahdahdah".

John T
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 2nd April 2019, 03:42
frankkeavy frankkeavy is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1956 - 1993
 
Join Date: Nov 2012
Posts: 4
Good one. My Morse is rusty these days.
Frank
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 2nd April 2019, 06:05
holland25 holland25 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1956 - 1970
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,058
I struggled a bit but very risible.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 6th April 2019, 15:30
sparks69 sparks69 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1966 - 1986
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 446
Don't encourage him please !
(Still trying to work it out - bit rusty these days)

Just got it ..............................



That was my 417th post -- Working frequency of GNF ?

Last edited by sparks69; 6th April 2019 at 15:32..
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 7th April 2019, 08:52
Moulder's Avatar
Moulder Moulder is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1971 - 1983
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
My location
Posts: 875
Quote:
Originally Posted by sparks69 View Post
Don't encourage him please !
(Still trying to work it out - bit rusty these days)

Just got it ..............................



That was my 417th post -- Working frequency of GNF ?
+1

Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Fishermen clash with Paris police ( BBC ) Gavin Gait Fishing Vessels 1 21st May 2008 20:03
Police detain man on board ship (BBC News) SN NewsCaster News and Views from the Shipping World 0 6th February 2008 07:40
French police put crew of collision ship on wanted list non descript News and Views from the Shipping World 0 18th September 2007 10:39
Police attempt high sea rescue cambria49 RNLI 2 16th March 2006 02:41



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.