Kwinana Incident - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
10:34

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Kwinana Incident

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #26  
Old 21st January 2011, 22:43
ChiefCharles's Avatar
ChiefCharles ChiefCharles is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1956 - 2005
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 75
David: It's been confirmed in posts on this thread and in personal e-mails from Ship Nostalgia members that the Dragoon (50,000) was the ship involved in this incident. Your comment re "how do you throw or turn a large 24" or even greater Diam. plug, in a non dry-dock/eng port." leaves me confused. Why would you need a 24 inch diam. plug to plug an 8 inch line?
You ask what would I have done and as always hindsight is 20/20 and it's always easier not being directly involved or knowing the Engineers involved and their thinking.
1. Never would have attempted this type of repair with the ship at fully loaded draft but upon completion of cargo discharge with ship at minimal draft. Co-ordination, planning with Master and Chief Mate essential to ensure this.
2. Would have used a tapered wooden plug machined on the ships lathe if suitable wood was available or had it made ashore prior arrival from dimensions telegraphed/phoned to local Superintendent.
3. After divers fitted the plug would have cracked open valve to ships shell flange leaving all nuts in place until sure no leakage from sea was occurring. Prior to arrival Kwinana would have renewed nuts one at a time to ensure they would be easily removable and replaceable during the actual valve renewal.(this would apply to the associated piping as well.) --- Roger
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 21st January 2011, 22:56
Graham Wallace Graham Wallace is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Engineering
Active: 1955 - 1962
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,456
Yes it was the Dragoon. In SN 'Hello' section is a thread from 'Johnny.x' who was aboard her at the time

At the moment I am not sure of the precise date she
'sank' but have a 19th August 1969 Ships Movements indicating arrived Kwinana from Mina; Kwinana repairs 30/7/69.

The crew at the time;
Master, J Picken
CO, WG Cornock
2M, JP Carter
U3M, R Rowan
RO, EP Early
2RO, RK Knibbs
1E (?) TJ Smith
2E, JE Humble
3E, RH Lees
X3E, GG East
4E, SN Train
JE's, R Houlton, PE Cross & PJ Arnot
Elect, A Mackay
ERS, R Souter
ERB, CJ Leavey
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 21st January 2011, 22:59
Graham Wallace Graham Wallace is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Engineering
Active: 1955 - 1962
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,456
Jeepers Roger, I was typing up that reply , entered it in and find you had replied to David already!

Graham
Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 22nd January 2011, 09:28
rknibbs's Avatar
rknibbs rknibbs is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1969 - 1973
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 229
Br Dragoon loaded Das Island for Kwinana having sailed from Isle of Grain around the 12 June 1969. Don't remember date of sinking but do remember coming on board and seeing the main deck covered in vegetables after the sacking had been removed for use in the engine room. The 3M came and told me the ship was sinking. The local paper, the West Australian, reported that The British Dragoon had sunk at Kwinana whereas Lloyds reported it as a grounding.
RJ Knibbs, 2R/O at the time.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 22nd January 2011, 11:31
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
johnny.x

seem to be muking my replies up.i was on br dragoon at time of sinking in kwinana. it was my 3rd ship 2nd one to have problems! as only engroom rating at time . not an expert things happened that could have been avoided she was meant to have discharged first. as those there at the time knew and everyone else now knows that did not happen and a man lost his life "heads did roll" i have tried to reply to people but as the gray matter is a bit tardy i'm not doing something right .hopefully i will get the hang of this. from johnny.x
Reply With Quote
  #31  
Old 22nd January 2011, 12:35
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1962 - 1970
 
Join Date: May 2009
My location
Posts: 4,302
No Problem mate, you're doing OK, some of us didn't know the story until you came along. We all have problems getting the right bits in the right places at times.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 22nd January 2011, 15:03
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
british dragoon by johnny.x

hope at last ive mastered this. sailed from isle grain june 69 loaded at das island destination kwinana.as i have already said i was engroom boy. junior eng took sick in the gulf had to be paid of. i was put on 12-4 watch with 4th eng to replace him,"the start of his nightmare!".on passage to kiwnana troubles started with seacock.was to do repairs kwinana. arrived kwinana at anchor awaiting berth. i think bp endeavor was alongside she was on aussie coast run at time. we berthed early next day, as we were to be there a couple of days 2nd eng got me 24hrs shore leave so i could see rellies in nollamara. 4th eng & me left ship about 10am as my rellies picking me up and gave him a lift to fremantle. a few hrs later a news flash said she had sank on jetty. we were meant to have discharged first then go back to anchor in ballast and dip the bow as no drydock to take us. as i said in my earlier attemt that did not happen. they tried it alongside a diver lost his life! engineroom flooded to about 50-60ft. cheif eng & capt discharged. it took a couple of mths to turn a sub back to a ship. throughout this great episode all crew lived ashore me mainly with my rellies. when finally ready for departure we were delivered a dbs deckboy to take home to meet his fate. we were given a grand fairwell as we left "mainly glad to see the back of us". back to the gulf load up landsend for orders later changed to antwerp, on entering english channel thick fog when an ab came of the bridge with the good news radar was playing up "running out of toilet roll very fast now!". when arrive antwerp pump room catches fire! were we meant to have a good trip or not! but we did have a good crew as for "the 4th eng who had to put up with me till they got him a new junior eng well done! i learned a lot from him". as i said she was my 3rd ship still had a few to do " But i wo'nt forget her. johnny.x
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 22nd January 2011, 15:56
rknibbs's Avatar
rknibbs rknibbs is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1969 - 1973
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 229
Hi Johnny, you will see from other threads I was the 2R/O. Same time as you, I joined in Grain and paid off in Antwerp. Robert
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 23rd January 2011, 12:04
david freeman david freeman is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,016
Kwinana Incident Br Dragoon.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefCharles View Post
David: It's been confirmed in posts on this thread and in personal e-mails from Ship Nostalgia members that the Dragoon (50,000) was the ship involved in this incident. Your comment re "how do you throw or turn a large 24" or even greater Diam. plug, in a non dry-dock/eng port." leaves me confused. Why would you need a 24 inch diam. plug to plug an 8 inch line?
You ask what would I have done and as always hindsight is 20/20 and it's always easier not being directly involved or knowing the Engineers involved and their thinking.
1. Never would have attempted this type of repair with the ship at fully loaded draft but upon completion of cargo discharge with ship at minimal draft. Co-ordination, planning with Master and Chief Mate essential to ensure this.
2. Would have used a tapered wooden plug machined on the ships lathe if suitable wood was available or had it made ashore prior arrival from dimensions telegraphed/phoned to local Superintendent.
3. After divers fitted the plug would have cracked open valve to ships shell flange leaving all nuts in place until sure no leakage from sea was occurring. Prior to arrival Kwinana would have renewed nuts one at a time to ensure they would be easily removable and replaceable during the actual valve renewal.(this would apply to the associated piping as well.) --- Roger
I apologise all round to all readers. Memory is a dangerous attribute when not in the right hands. Once again I apologise. Good reading to all. It is great to know one gets a blooded nose once in a while.
PS I understood mistakenly it was the High suction for the main condenser?
Reply With Quote
  #35  
Old 23rd January 2011, 13:45
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
hello robert 2nd radio officer, i do actually remember you! you did a couple of ship to shores for me. good to hear from you,..johnny.x.
Reply With Quote
  #36  
Old 27th January 2011, 17:53
davet davet is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13
The story was that the Captain was at the Golf Club and in the bar when the phone went. The barman answered it and then announced 'It Captain X here ?'
The Captain said 'Yes' and then the barman announed in a load voice for all to hear 'Well Captain, your ship has just sunk alongside the jetty.' I have no idea how true this is.
Reply With Quote
  #37  
Old 28th January 2011, 08:54
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
yes davet, you are about right. no offence to aussies as i live here now. but they are not very discrestionary at times, most of us were ashore but no one was goining to blame me as i was only a bilge rat at the time. over time since ive been here i have met some people from w/aus who like us are old enough to remember and laugh about it now. best wish's to you and all...johnny.x
Reply With Quote
  #38  
Old 28th February 2011, 21:37
jehumble jehumble is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1959 - 2003
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Hello, this is my first post so please be patient. My name is John Humble and I was first trip 2nd. Eng. on the 'Dragoon' when she sank. Thankfully nobody was killed during the incident, though one of the divers was very lucky when he tried to insert a sack of potatoes into the sea box where the valve was located. The valve was a 24 inch. low auxiliary suction, the lid of which had become disconnected and had become wedged in the outlet throat of the valve so reducing the flow of water to both the alternator condensers and the cargo pump condenser. In the last trip to the Persian Gulf we could just maintain enough vacuum on the alternater condensers, less than 20 inches.
The problem had been known about for some time, attempts at repair had been carried out previously in the I.O.G. but were abandoned due to high tide flow. It was then decided to attempt repairs at Das Island, however due to a breakdown in communications nothing was arranged, so the repair was then moved to Quinana.
Finally the blank, yes it was one inch marine ply, it was placed against the valve inlet throat insde the sea box and held there whist the valve cover was eased off its seal until the sea pressure held the blank against the valve throat. Only then was the valve cover removed, I actually stood on the blank in order to remove the valve lid, the lid was refitted to the valve spindle and was ready to be refitted when the blank collapsed, this was some 20 minutes after the valve cover had been removed. Remains of the blank were sent to Perth unniversity and it was found that new marine ply of that thickness could easily have stood the pressure, however the blank used was second hand and had been subjected to a heavy shock load.
Reply With Quote
  #39  
Old 1st March 2011, 00:23
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
john humble, i was your engroom boy at the time. i must say sorry..as i thought the diver died. but sometimes memory can go wrong with time.. you used to call me the jona if i remember right. but to prove the gods wrong im still around! i made eng in the end, what was the name of the 4th eng never remember his name, if i remember you were short dark hair, glasses? the 2nd who replaced you used to give me a hard time! can laugh about it now. you may not remember but i met a girl there who used to go to the mission, she went to uk and stayed with my parents we married a few years later. in 89 we moved out here to oz. as i said earlier sorry i got the diver wrong! it was good to have sailed with you! you did look after me and that poor 4th eng. johnny.x
Reply With Quote
  #40  
Old 1st March 2011, 19:25
twogrumpy's Avatar
twogrumpy twogrumpy is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1986
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,944
X3/E, GG East, would that be big Gavin?
Reply With Quote
  #41  
Old 2nd March 2011, 21:06
jehumble jehumble is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1959 - 2003
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
To answer twogrumpy, yes you are correct it was big Gavin. To Jonny.x, yes I used to have hair in those days and I wore glasses, I cant remember the 4ths name, I know we were short staffed, and I know I allowed two lads to have a break the afternoon of the accident. one of the juniors was from Leeds and the third engineer was keen on photography.
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 3rd March 2011, 02:11
johnny.x johnny.x is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1982
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 206
To john h. we all had hair then john. the4th was the photographer he did a lot of photo's for me, you put me on 12/4 with him when a junior had to payoff the 3rd was a big fella!! used to be really cranky when i called him for his watch as he was a deep sleeper, and i used to have to yell to get him up, he used to nearly hit the bulkhead!. when you left the 2nd who replaced you took me down the tanks on way back to gulf to fix leaks in the pipes, nearly passed out with the bloody fumes, the only consolation was he took me to his cabin after and gave me a bloody big glass of rum! did wonders!!!!! donkeyman was a big fella with a beard called Dunks, welsh i think, sailed with him a couple more trips after dragoon. regards johnny
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 3rd March 2011, 11:13
david freeman david freeman is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,016
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehumble View Post
To answer twogrumpy, yes you are correct it was big Gavin. To Jonny.x, yes I used to have hair in those days and I wore glasses, I cant remember the 4ths name, I know we were short staffed, and I know I allowed two lads to have a break the afternoon of the accident. one of the juniors was from Leeds and the third engineer was keen on photography.
Is that You J Edward from Constanine College 59-61?
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 3rd March 2011, 19:10
twogrumpy's Avatar
twogrumpy twogrumpy is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1986
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehumble View Post
To answer twogrumpy, yes you are correct it was big Gavin. To Jonny.x, yes I used to have hair in those days and I wore glasses, I cant remember the 4ths name, I know we were short staffed, and I know I allowed two lads to have a break the afternoon of the accident. one of the juniors was from Leeds and the third engineer was keen on photography.
Hm!! my first 2/E in 68, amazed that I stuck it for so long after the experience.
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 3rd March 2011, 20:11
ChiefCharles's Avatar
ChiefCharles ChiefCharles is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1956 - 2005
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 75
David Freeman: I must apologize to you ref the size of the valve. Its only about forty years ago and an 8 inch valve is still in my brain instead of the 24 inch auxiliary suction noted in the post by John Humble (who was the Second in charge of the repair). Your memory served you well!
John Humble: I'm very pleased that finally an engineer who was on the Dragoon at the time came forward with a posting. It was very interesting to note that you actually stood on the blank during the repair and also that you clarified that there was no loss of life. You could restore some faith in my memory for me by acknowledging that the Chief was George Johnson. I was first trip Second with him on the Destiny in 1965. Cheers - Roger
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 5th March 2011, 20:12
jehumble jehumble is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1959 - 2003
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
To Chief Charles
Roger, George was Chief Engineer at the time of the accident, sadly he has passed on quite some years, his wife Dorothy who sailed with him quite regularly is still alive and we still exchange xmas cards.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 5th March 2011, 20:14
jehumble jehumble is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1959 - 2003
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Twogrumpy
I'll say no more he still lives quite close!!!
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 6th March 2011, 16:29
twogrumpy's Avatar
twogrumpy twogrumpy is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 1986
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 1,944
Quote:
Originally Posted by jehumble View Post
Twogrumpy
I'll say no more he still lives quite close!!!
Interesting this, are we talking the same GG East, the one I am talking about passed away a couple of years ago.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 6th March 2011, 23:01
Graham Wallace Graham Wallace is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Engineering
Active: 1955 - 1962
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1,456
Quote:
Originally Posted by david freeman View Post
Is that You J Edward from Constanine College 59-61?
As far as I know David there were only two 1959 EA's at Middlesborough, and you were one, he was the other.

Graham
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 8th March 2011, 14:37
jehumble jehumble is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1959 - 2003
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by twogrumpy View Post
Interesting this, are we talking the same GG East, the one I am talking about passed away a couple of years ago.
I must admit it is a long time since I saw Gavin, and we didn't exchange Xmas cards. If I was to say his nickname rhymed with his surname, his father had a garage, his wifs's name was Anne and he liked fast cars would we be talking about the same person.
I know Gavin had quite a reputation, but on the Dragoon we got on quite well(he was doing steam time). When the accident happened he was the one with me trying to save the boat(hopeless) and indeed we didnt leave the bottom flat until the water was up to our waists.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
s.sDarius/Kwinana teb Ship Research 4 29th November 2010 12:27
Incident report eldersuk Ship Research 3 15th August 2010 00:47
Red Sea Incident JCochrane Clan Line 1 7th November 2009 21:57
A strange incident? jaigee News and Views from the Shipping World 8 21st December 2006 23:46
Colombo Incident mahseer1 Ellerman 5 3rd November 2006 21:12



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.