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  #26  
Old 11th November 2010, 19:50
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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I'd say that the USCG has already told them NOT to do anything in the main power room until they've investigated it in San Diego. With KVolt power cables burned through and then cooled with water, there'll be kilometers of cable to renew. The damaged diesel will have to be removed and a new one fitted, in the whole repair bill this item will be insignificant. I'd say that there should be lots of work for any qualified electrician in San Diego, good opportunity for some of the USN people who live around the base.
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  #27  
Old 12th November 2010, 18:38
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Splendor's cruise director, John Heald, has now updated his blog from the ship, he dscribes the moment when the fire broke out and what followed...

http://johnhealdsblog.com/2010/11/12...-water-part-1/

All crew have been taken off the ship and put up in hotels paid for by Carnival, they have had their full wages plus the amount they would normally have received in tips had the cruise completed as planned.

There is a joint investigation headed by Panama (Splendor is flagged there), the NTSB, the USCG, Carnival & Fincantieri.

The latest press release from Carnival reads...

Quote:
CARNIVAL SPLENDOR UPDATE

Miami - November 12, 2010 – 11.30am

The Carnival Splendor is currently docked in San Diego and a team is on board working to more fully assess damage to the vessel.

We recognize that many of our guests scheduled to sail on the Carnival Splendor are anxious to hear about the status of their upcoming sailing. At this time, the November 14 voyage has been cancelled. Those guests are receiving a full refund of their cruise fare and air transportation costs along with a 25 percent discount on a future cruise. Our technical teams are working round the clock to assess the damage and necessary repairs. We expect to have additional information early next week and will inform all guests accordingly.

Please continue to check back here for updates.

A NOTE FROM GERRY CAHILL, PRESIDENT & CEO:
"On November 11, the Carnival Splendor reached San Diego and all guests and crew were returned safely. We are extremely grateful and appreciative to them for their patience and positive spirit throughout the course of events. We would also like to extend our utmost gratitude to the U.S. Coast Guard, the U.S. Navy, the Port of San Diego and those within the San Diego community, as well as the tug boat operators, bus drivers, hoteliers, our travel agent partners and many, many others who have aided and supported us throughout the past several days. Thank you to all."
Personally, I don't think Carnival could have done anything more than they have already done. The fire was something that no-one could have possible foreseen. By all accounts reading John Heald's blog, it was a very frightening time for everyone with thick smoke entering several parts of the ship.

As much as there will be the inevitable moaning and probably lawsuits from disgruntled passengers, the crew aboard Splendor did a remarkable job in what must have been almost impossible conditions. I know they are trained to handle things like this, but even so, when it happens it has to be frightening for everyone involved.
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  #28  
Old 12th November 2010, 19:20
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There should be some lessons learned from this incedent,lke a back-up for cooking on deck such as a propane grill. All in all I think they did a great job.

John
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  #29  
Old 12th November 2010, 20:15
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John Rogers View Post
There should be some lessons learned from this incedent,lke a back-up for cooking on deck such as a propane grill. All in all I think they did a great job.

John
That will be a tough one John, USCG doesn't like propane, especially with talking cargo! I think the yard will have to re-plan, so that if this ever happens again, at least two generators will still be operational, with water and sewage systems promoted to emergency standard. Sounds a bit unusual, but I bet this will be in the final report.
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  #30  
Old 16th November 2010, 16:37
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All Carnival Splendor cruises are now cancelled til 16/01/2011

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...108423419.html

I guess the damage is extensive...more extensive that first thought.
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  #31  
Old 16th November 2010, 17:17
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Well that would be obvious, there is human excrement everywhere, they've popped the CO2 and wiring has been crisped.
That puppy will have to be decontaminated, miles of wiring pulled and an engine to rebuid,
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  #32  
Old 16th November 2010, 19:02
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[QUOTE=Non-marine speak for a crankcase explosion, which makes me wonder why the oil mist detector never picked it up.
QUOTE]

From my experience Oil Mist Detectors only tell you WHEN you have had an explosion!!!
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  #33  
Old 17th November 2010, 05:14
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Announced on local TV today that Carnival Splendor will be towed to the Tenth Avenue Terminal Thursday 11-18-10

http://www.portofsandiego.org/mariti...-terminal.html

Her Cruise Terminal berth is needed since two cruise ships are due Saturday 11-20.

Carnival announced that the Splendor next cruise will leave Long Beach CA January 16, 2011.

Nothing about fire damage except that Panama is leading the investigation with the USCG and NTSB "assisting".

Greg Hayden
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  #34  
Old 18th November 2010, 01:26
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http://www.ntsb.gov/Pressrel/2010/101111.html

NTSB Advisory
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
November 11, 2010

UPDATE ON INVESTIGATION INTO CARNIVAL SPLENDOR CRUISE SHIP ENGINE ROOM FIRE

The investigation of the fire that occurred in an engine room of the Carnival Splendor on November 8 is being investigated by Panama, the country under which the vessel was flagged.

Since the majority of passengers aboard the Carnival Splendor were citizens of the United States, the U.S. Coast Guard requested to join the investigation, and Panama consented.

The Coast Guard requested that the National Transportation Safety Board provide them with technical assistance. The NTSB and Coast Guard frequently work together on marine accident investigations, and the NTSB responded by providing two experts to assist the Coast Guard in their involvement in Panama's investigation.

All information on the progress of the investigation will be released by the Panama Maritime Authority.

###

NTSB Media Contact: Peter Knudson
[email protected]
(202) 314-6100


http://www.segumar.com/
Panama Maritime Authority

Greg Hayden
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  #35  
Old 18th November 2010, 12:19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billieboy View Post
That will be a tough one John, USCG doesn't like propane, especially with talking cargo! I think the yard will have to re-plan, so that if this ever happens again, at least two generators will still be operational, with water and sewage systems promoted to emergency standard. Sounds a bit unusual, but I bet this will be in the final report.
With reference to cruise ships having the capability to provide essential services after a major incident, it is already in hand :-

http://www.cruisecommunity.com/index...=910&Itemid=69
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  #36  
Old 18th November 2010, 15:18
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Thanks Capt. Jeremy, I wasn't aware of this, "Safe return to port", rule as I've been out of touch for some time.

Seems a bit unusual that a two year old ship does not,(or cannot), comply but as the say, safety is an ongoing operation. I expect that individual switch boards and the ability to cross couple switchboards will be the next, expensive requirement and Chief Engineer's headache.
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  #37  
Old 18th November 2010, 20:11
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Wednesday evening TV report said some people asked why the Carnival Splendor is not going to one of the couple of San Diego shipyards. Seems that the Splendor's air draft at low water is fifteen feet higher than the 200 feet clearance of the Coronado bridge:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Die...oronado_Bridge

And all of those shipyards are located south of the bridge. When built the bridge is this height to allow all US Navy vessels to pass under.

Also as speculated on this thread they announced that a call has been put out for 250 experienced marine electricians and 50 experienced marine diesel mechanics. TV showed two long lines of mostly men formed up to apply for positions. TV interviewed an electrician that said wiring between the engine room and the bridge engine controls all needed to be replaced along with "miles" of engine room cabling.

Greg Hayden
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  #38  
Old 18th November 2010, 20:14
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Whatever became of Pyrotenax?
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  #39  
Old 18th November 2010, 20:18
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Whatever became of Pyrotenax?
It's still around but very expensive for 6.6Kv cables.
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  #40  
Old 18th November 2010, 20:38
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[QUOTE=Ian J. Huckin;470314]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Non-marine speak for a crankcase explosion, which makes me wonder why the oil mist detector never picked it up.
QUOTE



From my experience Oil Mist Detectors only tell you WHEN you have had an explosion!!!
Actually they have saved my bacon (ayrshire middle - smoked) on a couple of occasions - but they have also told me about the explosion shortly after the event as well - which was nice but rather unneccessary.

In this particular case I would describe it as a success in fire containment
Everything is of course at least doubled up but the problem with fires of course is cables are put in runs and separating cable runs completely is extremely difficult. So you end up with fired up bundles of cables and it takes a fair bit of effort to and scary tactics to find out what is not shorted or earthed. Throw in the added bonus of MV up to 11kV and you are very scary territory. The big point is though that ultimately the fire was contained and the vessel integrity was intact.

Repair wise - not as difficult as you might imagine any good yard will have an engine stripped down and removed in about a week - cabling can be a bit more fun though.
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  #41  
Old 19th November 2010, 13:10
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Carnival Corporation & plc estimates that the total financial impact from voyage disruptions and related repair costs to Carnival Splendor, will result in an approximate $0.07 reduction in the company's 2010 fourth quarter earnings per share. The impact of voyage disruptions in the first quarter of 2011 is not expected to be material to the company's 2011 earnings. The company had expected earnings for the fourth quarter 2010 to be in the range of $0.32 to $0.36 per share, compared to $0.24 per share in 2009. A reduction of $0.07 translates to approximately $55 million. The company now expects to earn about $1.9 billion in 2010.
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  #42  
Old 23rd November 2010, 00:26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Billieboy View Post
Thanks Capt. Jeremy, I wasn't aware of this, "Safe return to port", rule as I've been out of touch for some time.

Seems a bit unusual that a two year old ship does not,(or cannot), comply but as the say, safety is an ongoing operation. I expect that individual switch boards and the ability to cross couple switchboards will be the next, expensive requirement and Chief Engineer's headache.
I'm sure she is built to Class minimum standards.
It was floated on another board that the reverse power relay didn't trip the breaker on the damaged engine allowing the 5 other generators to motorize it. Just the thought brings out the pucker factor.
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  #43  
Old 23rd November 2010, 07:33
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Reverse power trip not working? something very wrong on the switchbpard. Doesn't this sound like, "Canberra", on her maiden voyage?
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  #44  
Old 23rd November 2010, 11:28
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All speculation Billyboy.
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  #45  
Old 3rd December 2010, 16:45
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Originally Posted by Billieboy View Post
Reverse power trip not working? something very wrong on the switchbpard. Doesn't this sound like, "Canberra", on her maiden voyage?
How often is electrical protection tested on a normal ship during planned maintenance?
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  #46  
Old 3rd December 2010, 17:21
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How often is electrical protection tested on a normal ship during planned maintenance?
On US ships the reverse power trip is tested yearly during the COI. On ships that I have sailed on the test of the reverse power trip is tested when the generator is taken off line manually.

Some automatic power management programs that automatically remove generators on-line when the load no longer requires them utilize the reverse power trip to take the generator off line. The system also lets you decide to keep the generators on-line no matter what the load is like during maneuvering. The computer would also shut down the engine after a suitable idle period.

Joe
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  #47  
Old 11th December 2010, 16:27
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It was floated on another board that the reverse power relay didn't trip the breaker on the damaged engine allowing the 5 other generators to motorize it.
Only if the forward and aft plant were crosstied could a fault on a single diesel generator adversely affect all five of the other machines. If the two plants were not crosstied, then there should have been no affect at all on the three machines in the forward plant.

Whenever a design calls for two independent systems (trains, divisions, etc.), each capable of performing functions to protect some vital need, it is never appropriate to tie the systems together, either mechanically or electrically. This is to prevent a fault on one train from adversely effecting the other train; true independence (including physical separation) must always be maintained. This does not mean tie breakers, crosstie valves, etc. are not built into the design, but these ties are only intended to be used to facilitate major maintenance activities when the overall plant is shut down (in port, dry dock, maintenance outages, etc.).

This design approach is used, for example, in commercial nuclear power and other facilities where certain specific functions must always be available. Although my experience is predominantly in the nuclear power industry, I can tell you as fact that it would be a serious criminal offense in a nuclear plant to intentionally operate with both trains or divisions tied together, in any way. For the same reason I cannot understand why the requirement does equally apply to a marine plant on which 5000 souls rely for their safety and well being.

In other words, it is my firm opinion, it is incompetent, if not criminal, for a commercial vessel open to the paying public, to operate at sea, with both the forward and aft plants electrically and/or mechanically tied together. From the Costa Victoria brochure, readily available on the internet, I cannot see a single reason why the vessel needs the two plants crosstied in any way.

If the two plants were indeed operating independently, all fire safety systems were operable, all ventilation isolation dampers were in service and operable, all required fire barriers were operable and properly configured between fire zones, etc, I cannot begin to see how this event occurred. Maybe this alludes to the reason Carnival is being so quiet about what really happened even though there is so much interest in the event. Did the ship sail with some of these vital systems out of service? Where the two plants tied together and if so where they tied together out of ignorance/incompetence or a need to work around out of service equipment? There seems to be an incredibly large amount of good lessons learned experience from this event that is not now being used to assure the well being of one hell of a lot of innocent blissfully unaware paying passengers at sea right now.
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  #48  
Old 16th December 2010, 08:14
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Announced on San Diego TV news tonight that the Splendor will not return to service until February 20, 2011. Said that the vessel will be going to a San Francisco shipyard for further repairs and dry docking but did not mention whether it would be towed or under her own power.

Greg Hayden
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  #49  
Old 17th December 2010, 01:23
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That is not a surprise, engine must have to come out through the hull
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  #50  
Old 16th January 2011, 21:54
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I read in today, Sunday January 16, 2011 North County Times paper edition

http://tinyurl.com/47w8l9f

That Carnival Splendor will proceed under her own power Wednesday January 19 to San Francisco accompanied by two tugs.

Carnival along with NCL and HAL announced last week that by April 2012 they will abandon San Diego and Los Angeles cruise ports -- the ships mainly cruise round trips to Mexico -- due to the Mexican violence, and drug cartels taking over Mexican port services.

Greg Hayden
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