Viking Sky emergency - Page 3 - Ships Nostalgia
14:40

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Viking Sky emergency

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #51  
Old 25th March 2019, 11:45
Varley's Avatar
Varley Varley is online now   SN Supporter
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Active: 1971 - 2011
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderreiver View Post
.... Now to start thinking what was common for 4 engines to fail quick reaction bad fuel.....blocked sea water cooling. ...
etc.

I had imagined a passenger vessel would be expected to have basic redundancy to maintain minimum safe operation in the event of any single failure. I cannot remember what, if any, redundancy we had for the cooling water on our modest DSV fleet but I remember fuel either/both separate day tanks and water detection was insisted on by clients. I also learned that designs from the most competent of shipyards could incorporate elementary (once discovered!) fatal single failures.

I would like to know if trials included the effect of an emergency switchboard only blackout. The tendency is to assume it is always more secure to have your gadget connected to the emergency supply but especially when a gadget is part of a system reliant on the (a) main bus supply then one can disable the system with a 'big' blackout or an ESB blackout. Double jeopardy. At least three classes (one MSV, two bulk carriers) experienced 'fatal' single failures when only the ESB supply failed. Each 'complication' (like having the EM D/A disconnect and shut down automatically as well as start and connect automatically) makes Failure Mode and Effect Analysis more onerous.

The accident report will make interesting reading. I hear that another and larger and better known cruise liner had a prolonged blackout in the last four months. MAIB should report in due course.

(I have now remined myself that one of those failures was not an ESB issue but similar in that the system, a generator control and safety system, had the local and control room panels connected to separately protected supplies for convenience of not running the wiring to make the supply rail one. If the supply to one half alone or the whole failed a simple power fail alarm was generated. If the supply to the other half failed alone this simulated the affected generator's a main bus short circuit protection which tripped out all main breakers without any front panel method of resetting them. The Federal Seascouts did not need You Tube one rehearsal of this effect occurred in the Straits of Juan de Fuca, rather 'in their face').

Last edited by Varley; 26th March 2019 at 11:10.. Reason: Memory cell jogged
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 25th March 2019, 12:08
borderreiver borderreiver is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1960 - 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Varley View Post
etc.

I had imagined a passenger vessel would be expected to have basic redundancy to maintain minimum safe operation in the event of any single failure. I cannot remember what, if any, redundancy we had for the cooling water on our modest DSV fleet but I remember fuel either/both separate day tanks and water detection was insisted on by clients. I also learned that designs from the most competent of shipyards could incorporate elementary (once discovered!) fatal single failures.

I would like to know if trials included the effect of an emergency switchboard only blackout. The tendency is to assume it is always more secure to have your gadget connected to the emergency supply but especially when a gadget is part of a system reliant on the (a) main bus supply then one can disable the system with a 'big' blackout or an ESB blackout. Double jeopardy. At least three classes (one MSV, two bulk carriers) experienced 'fatal' single failures when only the ESB supply failed. Each 'complication' (like having the EM D/A disconnect and shut down automatically as well as start and connect automatically) makes Failure Mode and Effect Analysis more onerous.

The accident report will make interesting reading. I hear that another and larger and better known cruise liner had a prolonged blackout in the last four months. MAIB should report in due course.
I have been on ships with all main pumps run from the main engine so in the event of a power failure you could manage . But you required power to start the engine ie lub pumps. turning gear. cooling water.. But in this case was elec power coming off shaft gen or then gen power. Passer talk of a shudder . I feel with so many elec power failures something should be done.
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 25th March 2019, 12:19
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1970 - Present
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,844
No lives lost but a few reputations tarnished therefore I feel free to hazard a comment on this incid
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 25th March 2019, 13:25
callpor callpor is online now   SN Supporter
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1962 - Present
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
My location
Posts: 749
Quote:
Originally Posted by callpor View Post
The AIS plot whilst immobilised and drifting shows that she came within 2 miles of the coast and a whisker away from grounding. Getting that first engine running was a very close call? This is what you call a "near-miss"?
It must have been terrifying for the passengers.
That "whisker off the rocks" has been defined today, quoting a report in Rick Spelman's Old Salt Blog:-
"The ship lost power on Saturday and came perilously close to drifting onto the rocky shore in seas described as 8 meters (26 feet) high and winds of 38 knots. Norwegian Coast Guard officer Emil Heggelund told newspaper VG that the ship was 100 meters (328 feet) from striking an under the water reef and 900 meters (2,953 feet) from shore when was able to anchor in Hustadvika Bay. For context, as the ship is 228 m (748 ft), it was less than a half a ship-length off the rocks before it was able to anchor. "
A little bit close for comfort?
Phew!
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 25th March 2019, 13:50
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,616
#54

No arf! Schettino would have been well-pleased!

I hasten to add that there is no other sign of any comparison with Schettino.

A miss is as good as a mile.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 25th March 2019, 14:08
Robert Hilton's Avatar
Robert Hilton Robert Hilton is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1956 - Present
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
My location
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
'Tilting'? 'Continuous Tilting' means rolling!

'Leaning' Is same as 'Listing'.

What language do these reporters speak?
Probably the English of Miguel de Cervantes who wrote of "Tilting at Windmills."
__________________
Getting worse and enjoying every minute.
Reply With Quote
  #57  
Old 25th March 2019, 14:24
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by callpor View Post
That "whisker off the rocks" has been defined today, quoting a report in Rick Spelman's Old Salt Blog:-
"The ship lost power on Saturday and came perilously close to drifting onto the rocky shore in seas described as 8 meters (26 feet) high and winds of 38 knots. Norwegian Coast Guard officer Emil Heggelund told newspaper VG that the ship was 100 meters (328 feet) from striking an under the water reef and 900 meters (2,953 feet) from shore when was able to anchor in Hustadvika Bay. For context, as the ship is 228 m (748 ft), it was less than a half a ship-length off the rocks before it was able to anchor. "
A little bit close for comfort?
Phew!

Had the ship been half a length away from the rocks they would have had everyone in the boats IMMEDIATELY! In that weather the ship would been torn apart in less that a an hour. Yesterday they said the ship was 2km away from the rocks, not 1/2 length.
Reply With Quote
  #58  
Old 25th March 2019, 14:29
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Hilton View Post
Probably the English of Miguel de Cervantes who wrote of "Tilting at Windmills."

Then the reporter had no idea what he was talking about. Tilting mean 'jousting'. Perhaps he thought 'tilt' and 'lean' means the same as in 'leaning' is the same as 'tilting'... and he was wrong!


In any case 'listing' is not the term is not correct anyway. The list of a ship is the angle that a ship is at rest. The correct word is ROLLING.

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 25th March 2019 at 14:33..
Reply With Quote
  #59  
Old 25th March 2019, 14:40
Robert Hilton's Avatar
Robert Hilton Robert Hilton is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1956 - Present
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
My location
Posts: 1,359
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Then the reporter had no idea what he was talking about. Tilting mean 'jousting'. Perhaps he thought 'tilt' and 'lean' means the same as in 'leaning' is the same as 'tilting'... and he was wrong!


In any case 'listing' is not the term is not correct anyway. The list of a ship is the angle that a ship is at rest. The correct word is ROLLING.
A bit off topic, but I'm glad to hear a few of us still speak English. Even those who speak it as professionals on the media have lost the precision of the language, saying "convince" when they mean "persuade."
__________________
Getting worse and enjoying every minute.
Reply With Quote
  #60  
Old 25th March 2019, 14:46
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert Hilton View Post
A bit off topic, but I'm glad to hear a few of us still speak English. Even those who speak it as professionals on the media have lost the precision of the language, saying "convince" when they mean "persuade."
Most important to correct use or 'ship speak'. To me a 'ship' will be a 'she'! When the ship is called 'a cu*t'... meaning that you are describing the watchkeeper on the ship that crossed your bow. I never said that 'ship speak' would always be PC!

Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #61  
Old 25th March 2019, 16:24
King Ratt's Avatar
King Ratt King Ratt is offline  
King Ratt
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
My location
Posts: 1,864
Again off topic but the expression “tying up alongside” is often used instead of berthing or making fast alongside. Which of these is correct?
Reply With Quote
  #62  
Old 25th March 2019, 16:55
lakercapt lakercapt is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1952 - 1998
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
My location
Posts: 2,638
Having spent a few of my earlier years as a captain sailing up and down the Norwegian coast (and many a time inside the coast,) I would say it was not the best place in the world to be when there was a storm approaching.
I noticed there were references to the anchors being down. I think they would have been lowered to about six shots and they were still in very deep waters. It is only when you are very very close to shore the water shelves enough for the anchors to touch bottom. In most cases, the ship would very nearly be on the shore. Always a good idea to lower them but there effectiveness is doubtful.
When sailing inside it was possible to avoid the rough seas outside except at one time you must brave the elements and go round a famous place called Stadlandit

Last edited by lakercapt; 26th March 2019 at 03:05..
Reply With Quote
  #63  
Old 25th March 2019, 17:00
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 2009
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 377
[QUOTE=borderreiver;2975457]I hope for the safety of other passenger vessels a full report can be published soonest not as a blame but to find out what happened so it does not happening again. a ship with 4 engines stopping at the same time. what went wrong.[/QUOTE

When I was on BP's emergency support vessel Iolair, working in the Forties field north sea. We suffered multiple engine failures due to bacterial fuel contamination. She had 6 x M.A.N V18 engines. We were ordered out of the oilfield and managed to limp out , by drifting and dropping all four anchors ! We had to replace 108 fuel pumps and 108 fuel injectors. Not one of my better trips ! All the replacement parts had to be flown out to us by specially charted helicopters.
Reply With Quote
  #64  
Old 25th March 2019, 17:25
borderreiver borderreiver is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1960 - 2010
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,752
[quote=stevekelly10;2975549]
Quote:
Originally Posted by borderreiver View Post
I hope for the safety of other passenger vessels a full report can be published soonest not as a blame but to find out what happened so it does not happening again. a ship with 4 engines stopping at the same time. what went wrong.[/QUOTE

When I was on BP's emergency support vessel Iolair, working in the Forties field north sea. We suffered multiple engine failures due to bacterial fuel contamination. She had 6 x M.A.N V18 engines. We were ordered out of the oilfield and managed to limp out , by drifting and dropping all four anchors ! We had to replace 108 fuel pumps and 108 fuel injectors. Not one of my better trips ! All the replacement parts had to be flown out to us by specially charted helicopters.
First one i have heard on a merchant ship with bacterial fuel contamination. On the alvega we had drums of chemical to combat this for RN ships, again good merchant ships have fuel analysis.done on every supply of oil. and you could not start using it until it had been passed. On a lighter side i was master of a laid up tanker in molde which had a full fuel and lub oil laboratory on board, it was good for making moonshine.
Reply With Quote
  #65  
Old 25th March 2019, 18:18
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1968 - 2009
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 377
[QUOTE=borderreiver;2975561][quote=stevekelly10;2975549]
First one i have heard on a merchant ship with bacterial fuel contamination. On the alvega we had drums of chemical to combat this for RN ships, again good merchant ships have fuel analysis.done on every supply of oil. and you could not start using it until it had been passed. On a lighter side i was master of a laid up tanker in molde which had a full fuel and lub oil laboratory on board, it was good for making moonshine.[/QUOTE

The failure happened just after we changed over fuel tanks at noon, so we quickly identified where the problem was and isolated the contaminated fuel tank. We had drums of chemical sent out to us. It was called Haticide. It could only be brought out by a supply boat, as it was deemed to be too dangerous to be transported on a helicopter. Yours truly was given the job of pouring it into the contaminated fuel tank ! I had to wear breathing apparatus and other hazmat clothing whilst doing it. I noted there was a brown scum floating on top of the fuel whilst doing it !
Reply With Quote
  #66  
Old 25th March 2019, 21:23
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
I have this from a friend who was on the VIKING SKY. I have asked him to tell me how they choose to go first in the rescue. Anyhow....

By Mark Cornford.

Viking Sky – And while we’re on the subject…..

Before all the news hubbub dies down and the media moves on, I want to put in a word against the media reports we are hearing from certain, let us say, the litigious-minded, trying to suggest that the Captain should not have navigated us into these waters in the first place.

Let me be clear, I will have none of this!

Like the Hurtigruten has been doing for years, we were navigating the Inside Passage, partly for the scenery, maybe, but also because it was sheltered and protected. However, there are a few points where it is impossible to get from one protected passage to another without going “out to sea”, as it were, and we were warned that it would be rough after we passed Bodo, which we missed by the way, largely because there was no tug to assist us to go into port.

So we had to continue south to the next protected passage. Ten minutes before “the incident”, we were doing fine; rough but no worse motion than I have ‘enjoyed’ on many other ships in my long cruising life. Then, for reasons which will become clearer in due course, we suffered some kind of engine failure and began to slow down and roll, probably losing stabiliser control and the ability to control our position in relation to the coastal hazards. Matters quickly snowballed and within a few minutes, it was Muster Stations.

I can understand that if you got injured falling over or when the sea broke in through a fire door in the restaurant for example, your point of view might be a little differently coloured but I can attest, on behalf of the vast majority of us on board that we do not subscribe to any suggestion of poor judgement on the part of the Captain who, I gather, had at least one local pilot with him on the Bridge the whole time.

We all know that the world’s press and media love a crisis. It sells newspapers and there is a kind of morbid fascination in this kind of incident on the part “Jo public” out there. Please, please, be discriminating in what you read, who you listen to and who you believe. You have to have been here to know that the vast majority of the passengers on board Viking Sky have nothing but highest praise and admiration for Norwegian Air-Sea-Rescue and in the Captain, Officers and crew of the Viking Sky behaved impeccably at all times and in Torsten Hagen, who took the trouble to instantly fly in, first to Kristiansund (where the evacuees were first landed) and then to the ship, his baby, his family. We are all members of the family now!

For those of us departing for London, Gatwick tonight, a 3-course dinner was served in Chef’s Table, offering shrimp salad to start, followed by salmon or steak and a dessert of strawberry mousse! I even got my laundry back before I packed!
Reply With Quote
  #67  
Old 25th March 2019, 21:32
ART6's Avatar
ART6 ART6 is offline   SN Supporter
Super Moderator
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1958 - 1970
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,379
There is a lot of footage on You Tube about this incident, with the usual news media over-excitement, as the selection below:

1: https://www.theguardian.com/world/vi...ugh-seas-video

2: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Viking_Sky

3: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/870481...ttered-alarms/

So, according to The Guardian (1) "1,300 passengers rescued by helicopter." Some pretty big helicopters then?

2: "1,373 people on board, five helicopters, fewer than 200 evacuated. Two helicopters diverted to aid cargo ship" If The Guardian is correct then only seventy-three people were left on board - possibly the engineers who were trying to restart the engines, the deck officers who were directing helicopters, and the catering staff who were trying to supply both with coffee?

3. The "Giant waves" shown in the video don't seem all that "giant" to me from times sailing in those waters. In fact the video shows a small tug off to starboard that seems quite comfortable, so I wonder -- are these big cruise ships with their massive top-hampers really seaworthy when the s**t hits the fan? The expression "Rolling on a wet blanket" comes to mind? I think I would be uncomfortable taking a cruise on one of them in anything other than a boating pond, and there is news of even larger ones being built to accommodate thousands of passengers.

Anyway, fair dues to the engineers who, apparently, managed to get one engine going again.
Reply With Quote
  #68  
Old 25th March 2019, 22:27
Tim Gibbs's Avatar
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1960 - Present
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 68
This class of sister ships, > 3 years old, have suffered a number of serious engine problems. As far as I'm aware weather has not been an issue before. So what's issue - design, management, bad luck...... ?
__________________
Never let anything mechanical know you are in a hurry.

Last edited by Tim Gibbs; 26th March 2019 at 21:52.. Reason: Typo Aware = aware !
Reply With Quote
  #69  
Old 26th March 2019, 00:27
Varley's Avatar
Varley Varley is online now   SN Supporter
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Active: 1971 - 2011
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine Serang View Post
No lives lost but a few reputations tarnished therefore I feel free to hazard a comment on this incid
Emergency D/A didn't kick in or were you whisked off by chopper?
Reply With Quote
  #70  
Old 26th March 2019, 01:26
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
RE: How they were choosing who went off the ship before others...


Mark Cornford Stephen Card hi there! No idea quite how they prioritised those lifted but we did learn later that most of those lifted were from muster station B, which was the restaurant where the wave crashed in through a door. Two of my group were there and lifted. Andrew & I were safe in the forward theatre! Just as well though Captain secured our position with the anchor, otherwise we'd have been in the boats - or worse!
Reply With Quote
  #71  
Old 26th March 2019, 05:38
skilly57 skilly57 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1969 - Present
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 177
All very strange really.

In 2010 new regulations (called the Safe return to Port Regs = SRtP) were invoked stating all pax vessels over 120 metres had to have built-in redundancy such that any propulsion failure could only last for 1 hour maximum. This is why many passenger ships are now multi-engine, and with segregated engine rooms so if one gets flooded, propulsion & generator power would still be available from the other engine room. QE2 was designed like this when she was re-engined, with each E.R. supposedly being totally independent from the other. So, why, with a ship built in only 2017, did this vessel not find itself able to fulfil the regulation requirements? A lot of questions are going to be asked.

Cheers,

Skilly

ps - initially posted this in the Engine Room thread before seeing there was more discussion here.

Last edited by skilly57; 26th March 2019 at 14:11..
Reply With Quote
  #72  
Old 26th March 2019, 08:03
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1970 - Present
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,844
Quote:
Originally Posted by Engine Serang View Post
No lives lost but a few reputations tarnished therefore I feel free to hazard a comment on this incid
People are probably saying, how can ES comment on multiple engine failure when he can't master Windows 10.

Nonetheless could an overworked 4th engineer be purifying contaminated fuel from one settling tank to two daily service tanks, one in each engineroom, or have all engines fed from one daily service tank.
This has happened on a ship I was on but luckily we got things back on line in jig time. No You Tube in '75.
Reply With Quote
  #73  
Old 26th March 2019, 23:51
skilly57 skilly57 is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1969 - Present
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 177
With pax talking of feeling a 'Shudder' before the propulsion failure - I wonder of she had rolled far enough to lift one prop partially out of the water? Decades ago I was on a bulk carrier returning across the Tasman light ship, and we had huge following seas. As each wave passed under us the propeller blades would partially emerge, with the unbalanced loading on the blades causing a vibration through the ship. Could be the same here.

The shudder would be very unlikely to be an engine shutting down as most modern diesel-electric installations have the engines resiliently mounted to reduce the vibes through the hull and the passengers wine glasses!

Skilly

Last edited by skilly57; 26th March 2019 at 23:55..
Reply With Quote
  #74  
Old 26th March 2019, 23:59
lakercapt lakercapt is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1952 - 1998
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
My location
Posts: 2,638
Just read an article about the incident and the person was quoted as they "threw out the anchors"
Why is it the stupidest people get publicity and talk about things they know nothing about???
Reply With Quote
  #75  
Old 27th March 2019, 00:19
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,069
The 'idiot' who wrote the comments is a crewmember. Most likely a member of cruise staff or worse.... an art auctioneer! Not a clue of anything what he was saying. He was forbidden from talking to reporters. He should have kept his trap shut. I'll bet someone will hear about it he should loose his job. Twit.

Stephen
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Royal Viking Sky Coastie Modern Cruise Ships 13 8th December 2005 01:56
Royal Viking Sky david smith Modern Cruise Ships 0 28th April 2005 14:29



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.