[BabaAndrew]

I am looking for information about a vessel named the 'Mina'.

My great-great-great-grandfather, John Hatcher, died when he fell from the 'Mina' whilst repairing her rudder, at the Dry Dock of the Thames Ironwork Company Limited, on Saturday, the 4th day of June 1870.

I shall be most grateful if anyone can shed any light on this vessel...

[riversea]

I can't trace a MINA at least not British in 1870 but could it possibly be MINNA? That would throw up two possibles -
Built 1865, 783grt built on the Clyde by London & Glasgow S.B., Govan and in 1870 owned by Cork Steam Packet Company
Built 1856, 774grt built at Newcastle and in 1870 owned in Waterford.

[Roger Griffiths]

BabaAndrew


Attachment from Lloyds Register 1869/70. I would suggest that this vessel spent most of her time in Scottish waters. You need to confirm the exact spelling of the ships name. Could you give us the source of your information?

Roger

[BabaAndrew]

Thank you for the information.

My source is the Memorial Card for my great-great-great-grandfather, which reads:


*****
In Faithful Remembrance of

JOHN HATCHER

Who was killed by falling from the “Mina” whilst repairing the
rudder at the Dry Dock of the Thames Ironwork Company
Limited,

on Saturday, the 4th day of June, 1870

AGED 42 YEARS

“In the midst of Death we are in Life”

*****

Best regards

[BabaAndrew]

It seems unlikely that such a small vessel (85 tons), based in Scottish waters, would have gone to the Thames for repair.

This being the case, can you possibly also provide any further information on the Minna's?

Best regards

[BabaAndrew]

I have just found out about another 'Mina', namely...

IDNo: 5616804
Year: 1865
Name: MINA
Type: Cargo ship
Flag: EGY
Tons: 240
Link: 1924
DWT: 0 Yard No: 71
Country of build: GBR
Builder: Henderson Coulborn
Material of build: I
Location of yard: Renfrew

Any further information or leads would be greatly appreciated!

[riversea]

This last one built as NINON so presumably must have been sold as MINNA prior to the accident in 1870, if indeed it is her. No idea just what type of ship she was.

[Roger Griffiths]

I have seen those two sources from Miramar and the Clydebuilt site and I find them erroneous.
Can you find any other primary sources for the vessel? in question? If so could you enlighten me.
I agree that It seems unlikely (but possible) that such a small vessel (85 tons), based in Scottish waters, would have gone to the Thames for repair, but I discounted the other MINA? as she was Egyptian flagged. MINA is the Egyptian word for sea.

I think you have to go back to basics on this one.
First a copy of JOHN HATCHERS death certificate may tell you a little more. second quarter 1870 Poplar vol1C page 405.
The 1870 crew agreement for the MINA registered in Arbroth O/N 34435 is in MUN
http://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewc...icial_No=34435
I don't know if there is any detail in there but it may contain a clue.
In an ideal world it would be nice to look at the records of the Thames Ironworks shipbuilding and engineering company but they do not seem to be available before 1899.
http://www.aim25.ac.uk/cats/118/13464.htm Maybe I looked in the wrong place.
Have you looked at the East london newspapers for 1870 to see if they have any clues.

Roger

[ray1buck1]

Just a thought,
If the John Hatcher aged 34 in the 1861 census is the person concerned, his occupation is given as Dock labourer, his wife was Mary Ann aged 30 there were two sons John and Thomas all being born in St George in the East Middlesex
If he was a Dock Worker I would assume that there would be no reference to his demise in the ships log as de does not appear to be crew,
Ray

[Roger Griffiths]

Originally Posted by ray1buck1

Just a thought,

If he was a Dock Worker I would assume that there would be no reference to his demise in the ships log as de does not appear to be crew,
Ray

Hello Ray,
Of course he would not be entered in the ships logbook. The MUN link was looking for clues as to where the vessel MINA 34435 was located at the time of his demise. There is only a crew agreement so I don't know if will tell us anything. To be honest I am grasping at straws.
This one is a hard nut to crack The only positives are. John Hatcher died around 4/6/1870. There was a coaster called MINA with the official number 34435.


regards
Roger

[BabaAndrew]

Thank you for the further ideas.

As I am living in South Africa, I shall have to consider my options - particularly in terms of obtaining a copy of the death certificate and looking at old East London newspapers.

Best regards

[BabaAndrew]

Originally Posted by ray1buck1

Just a thought,
If the John Hatcher aged 34 in the 1861 census is the person concerned, his occupation is given as Dock labourer, his wife was Mary Ann aged 30 there were two sons John and Thomas all being born in St George in the East Middlesex
If he was a Dock Worker I would assume that there would be no reference to his demise in the ships log as de does not appear to be crew,
Ray

Dear Ray

Regarding the 1861 Census information, I have consulted my great-uncle in Australia (who is the Hatcher's family tree 'expert') and he thinks it unlikely that John Hatcher the "dock worker" is the one in question. He says that:

"...the following would seem to rule out your census entry as being the John Hatcher in question. I have John Hatcher being born in 1828 which would make him 33 years old in 1861 which is near enough to match your person, however, I have his wife Fanny (real name unknown) being born in 1825 which would make her 36 in 1861 which does not match Mary Ann being 30. Furthermore I have Charles Hatcher (your great Grandfather) being born in the 1850’s, the precise date is unknown but family history has it that he was 40 plus when he married in 1888 so this means he would have been born after 1848. In other words he would have been a member of the John Hatcher household in your census record in 1861.

"We know that You Great Great Grandfather was living in East London in 1870 and rumour has it that it was in Plaistowe (not sure of spelling) but we also know that Charles Hatcher was born in Portsmouth . The only connection between these two locations is that East London and Portsmouth are both dockyard towns so perhaps this John Hatcher was shipwright."

Plaistow sounds right, as this is in West Ham. On a related note, I understand that employee football club of Thames Ironworks actually became West Ham FC! As such, John may perhaps be found in the census for the West Ham district and more specifically Plaistow.

What is the best way to check census records for 1861?

Thank you again...

[K urgess]

A quick search of the 1861 census can find no John Hatcher with a son called Charles living in East London using the date ranges suggested.

[BabaAndrew]

Thank you for checking!

They could also have been living in Wiltshire at the time of the 1861 Census. Charles Hatcher was actually born at Old Sarum, Wiltshire, circa 1850s. As such, perhaps the family had not yet moved to East London.

[K urgess]

Can't find a Charles Hatcher born in Old Sarum but several born in various places in Wiltshire. None with a father called John. Unfortunately the 1861 census doesn't include occupations.
There's a Charles Hatcher in 1881 who is a police sergeant and married to a Mary A. with three children who was born about 1840. One child is called John which may be a reference to a grandfather by that name. A popular method of naming in the 19th century.
Regards

[BabaAndrew]

Thank you very much for checking!