Kiwis to be pals again! - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
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Kiwis to be pals again!

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  #26  
Old 8th June 2018, 16:58
frangio frangio is offline  
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Still not sure how we abandoned the Commonwealth countries. All these years that we have been in the EU there has still been plenty of NZ lamb on sale in the UK. Also, during that period, NZ, and Australian, wine sales in the UK have risen!

So what exactly, as we keep getting told, was banned from Commonwealth countries by the EU?
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  #27  
Old 8th June 2018, 20:40
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Originally Posted by frangio View Post
Still not sure how we abandoned the Commonwealth countries. All these years that we have been in the EU there has still been plenty of NZ lamb on sale in the UK. Also, during that period, NZ, and Australian, wine sales in the UK have risen!

So what exactly, as we keep getting told, was banned from Commonwealth countries by the EU?
I am no expert on this subject but, as I understand it, any non-EU country exporting to the UK or anywhere else in the EU pays EU import tariffs, just as post-Brexit the UK will be able to do in exporting to the EU. These are WTO rules I believe?
Meanwhile no EU member state can strike any special trade deal with a non-member since only the EU can do that for the whole of the EU.
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  #28  
Old 8th June 2018, 21:16
frangio frangio is offline  
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Originally Posted by ART6 View Post
I am no expert on this subject but, as I understand it, any non-EU country exporting to the UK or anywhere else in the EU pays EU import tariffs, just as post-Brexit the UK will be able to do in exporting to the EU. These are WTO rules I believe?
Meanwhile no EU member state can strike any special trade deal with a non-member since only the EU can do that for the whole of the EU.
But still not an answer to my question. Anti-EUs keep telling us that we had to stop trading with NZ and other Commonwealth countries because of our membership but, as far as I can remember, there has never been a time when NZ lamb was not on sale here. And, as I stated, we now get far more NZ and Australian wine in our shops than we did when we first joined the EU!

Personally, as I am concerned with food miles, I buy local lamb. Wine is more of a problem!
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  #29  
Old 8th June 2018, 22:18
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Pre EU , NZ sent almost 100% of their lamb to the UK and most of their mutton to Iraq where the latter bartered low grade crude oil with 3 to 4 % sulphur in exchange. In those times with pressure coming on our dairy exports to UK/ECC our Dairy Board was so desperate for custom they did a huge barter deal with the USSR to take Lada cars in exchange for milk powder and for years one could drive past about one hundred acres of these vehicles that no one wanted to buy!
Our eventual negotiations with Europe saw us with a lamb import quota far below the old days which resulted in the growth of sales to the US and Asia.
The wine is a different story, I think that you will find that the bulk of Kiwi wine exported to the U.K. And EU is white varieties and Sauvignon Blanc in greatest quantity while Australia dominates with the reds. This is because wine is so dependent on soil and micro climates to achieve the best result per grape variety and the Marlborough province has proved to be the best place on earth for SB and is why a huge amount of the plantings are French investments while a few of California's Booze Barons are increasing their holdings in the province.
While I am on about it, watch for the Central Otago Pinot Noir reds coming available in increasing quality and quantity . Our home grown film star , Sam Neil , Jurrasic Park, Peaky Blinders etc, is doing well with a fine drop that is beyond my budget.

Bob
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  #30  
Old 10th June 2018, 17:42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frangio View Post
But still not an answer to my question. Anti-EUs keep telling us that we had to stop trading with NZ and other Commonwealth countries because of our membership but, as far as I can remember, there has never been a time when NZ lamb was not on sale here. And, as I stated, we now get far more NZ and Australian wine in our shops than we did when we first joined the EU!

Personally, as I am concerned with food miles, I buy local lamb. Wine is more of a problem!
All true of course, and I did confess to lack of expertise, but when the UK joined the EU did that not require EU tariffs to be applied to imports from non-EU members when, before, they could be whatever the trading countries chose or none at all?

And for the record I was never "anti-EU" although the more I delve into its policies and practices the more I become so. I have bought a number of books and publications, including those published by the EU and the EC themselves, with a view to trying to arrive at a reasoned conclusion given Brexit. Many argued for the EU, many against, and I slowly found myself leaning against the EU.

I began to think that so many of the EU/EC publications were little short of propaganda, filled with all sorts of statistics that never actually addressed the criticisms that the "against's" leveled. I was once a supporter of the concept of an EU federal state with it's own parliament provided that the EC were reduced to its proper position as a civil service answerable to politicians elected by the taxpayers, but that didn't happen. In fact the EC steadily grabbed more power until it became an autocracy as the people of member states were deceived through a series of referendums to give it those powers (or be forced under political pressure to vote again if they didn't). I began to think that, maybe, the EU founders and the EC commissioners had an agenda that I didn't understand but of which I didn't like the sound. I admit to being somewhat influenced by the Russian ex-president Gorbachev, who wondered why when Europe had watched the collapse of the Soviet Union, it was so determined to replace it with an European version?

Then the establishment of the currency union and the vesting of control of the money to the ECB. A single currency throughout the 27 members with vastly different economies, some based upon agriculture and some based upon manufacturing? It was, it seemed to me then, a cart before a horse because without a federal government as in the USA or Russia it could never work. The central bank would always consider the needs of the large members because it would always be controlled by those who funded it, but the other members would have their own (emasculated) governments who, in the Council of Ministers, would side with the big guys who had the money and happily sacrifice the little guys like Greece and Ireland as long as the money kept flowing to them. No minister would be shouting their corner in a federal government because there wasn't one.

I couldn't see how a common currency could be possible without a central government, until it dawned upon me that the common currency was simply intended to be a further step along the construction of a soviet where federation became the only solution to financial disaster for many of the member states and with a ruling bureaucracy that had prepared itself for exactly that strategy. This is not the benefit of hindsight either -- I did campaign against Ireland joining the Eurozone at the time, and I attended and spoke at a number of public meetings questioning our government's desire to join. I was persuaded by the propagandists of course of the benefits of being able to take a holiday in the Costa Del Sol and spend the same money that I could spend in Dublin, and that, I thought, was just about the most puerile argument ever offered to the proles by the elite since it conveniently avoided any more complex questions. It became symptomatic to me of the attitude that "We know what is best for you, so stop asking silly questions when you won't understand the answer!" I didn't and don't like that!

So then Brexit in which I as a long term ex-pat had no vote, and the growing threats of UK meltdown if some sort of trade deal could not be cobbled together with the mighty EU. But.....er....there are 7.5bn people on this planet and 500k in the EU aren't there? All of those people need to buy something that they cannot make for themselves, and they fund their purchases by selling something that someone else needs. The British Commonwealth of Nations is three times the size of the EU. Trade between all of those people doesn't need the intervention of the autocratic EU and it's political ambitions, or its failed politicians elected as EC Commissioners in order to ensure their vast pensions before they retire to the lecture circuit.

So, I'm afraid I have moved from being a federalist. I have come to believe that the sooner this whole rotten empire built by little people who would climb on the shoulders of better men is gone the better!
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