Israel training to block freedom fleet - Ships Nostalgia
04:46

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Israel training to block freedom fleet

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 14th May 2010, 16:11
forthbridge forthbridge is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Active: 1959 - 1979
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
My location
Posts: 540
Israel training to block freedom fleet

Interesting article at this URL.

http://www.maannews.net/eng/ViewDetails.aspx?ID=283759
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 14th May 2010, 16:41
LEEJ's Avatar
LEEJ LEEJ is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
My location
Posts: 566
Expect total silence from all the advocates of shooting pirates when Israeli naval forces
intercept the fleet in international waters and fulfill the terms of an act of piracy. Bearing in mind that this is purely a humanitarian fleet sent to help many thousands of innocents in a concentration camp.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 14th May 2010, 18:27
chadburn chadburn is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,573
Seems a bit odd that a fleet of relief vessel's have to go to Gaza when their neighbouring Arab brother's in Egypt are best placed to help them.
__________________
Geordie Chief

From Grey Funnel to any Funnel, just show him/ me the money Mabel
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 14th May 2010, 19:02
Ivan at sea Ivan at sea is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 8
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
Seems a bit odd that a fleet of relief vessel's have to go to Gaza when their neighbouring Arab brother's in Egypt are best placed to help them.
I remember reading somewhere recently that the Egyptian authorities would not allow the relief vessels into their ports. Stating that the relief supplies would possibly fall into the hands of fractions in Gaza that are opposed to the current Egyptian Goverment

What a tangled world we live in, the majority of needy suffer because of ideoligy of a few

regards

Ivan at Sea
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 14th May 2010, 20:06
John Rogers's Avatar
John Rogers John Rogers is online now  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1947 - 1954
 
Join Date: May 2004
My location
Posts: 11,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
Seems a bit odd that a fleet of relief vessel's have to go to Gaza when their neighbouring Arab brother's in Egypt are best placed to help them.
Right on Chadburn,they have been avoiding the problem for years,even Saudi has done nothing to help them out in the camps.


John.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 14th May 2010, 20:42
rcraig rcraig is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
Seems a bit odd that a fleet of relief vessel's have to go to Gaza when their neighbouring Arab brother's in Egypt are best placed to help them.
Given that Egypt is in agreement with Israel to isolate the Gaza strip there is no scope for the Egyptians to assist. They have not been inclined to assist for a long time, so it is difficult to understand why it should be seen as another example of Arabs failing to assist their brothers.

If indeed the supplies are building materials etc., for the refurbishment of the Gaza strip they could of course be checked out by the Israeli navy in international waters, (against international law), cleared and allowed to proceed inwards. If the material is checked out with the help of international observers, what should be Israel's problem?

Of course, the easiest and cheapest way for the Palestinians, would be for the Israelis to allow the materials in overland, thereby allowing proper scrutiny by the Israelis. They however constantly use their security argument to prevent any material going through in a meaningful quantity.

If Saudi Arabia attempted to ship the same material overland there is no evidence that it would be allowed through.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 14th May 2010, 20:47
Tony D Tony D is offline  
Tony D
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 805
The rest of the Arab world love the Palestinians about as much as they love the Israelis,cant say I blame them
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 14th May 2010, 21:41
rcraig rcraig is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,695
Why is that?
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 14th May 2010, 21:50
Tony D Tony D is offline  
Tony D
 
Join Date: May 2004
Posts: 805
They have the habit of biting the hand that helps them,not getting into a debate about this, picked my side forty years ago,notning I have seen in the interim has altered that.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 14th May 2010, 22:41
Binnacle's Avatar
Binnacle Binnacle is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Deck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
Seems a bit odd that a fleet of relief vessel's have to go to Gaza when their neighbouring Arab brother's in Egypt are best placed to help them.
Egypt has been the beneficiary of 28 billions U.S. dollar aid since 1975. Perhaps if you ponder why the U.S. has been so generous then you will achieve a level of understanding..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 14th May 2010, 23:08
Binnacle's Avatar
Binnacle Binnacle is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Deck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,927
Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldman (one of the prominent Zionists leaders) before he died:

"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipes us out". I was stunned by this pessimism, but he went on: "I will be seventy years old soon. Well, Nahum, if you asked me whether I shall die and be buried in a Jewish state I would tell you Yes; in ten years, fifteen years, I believe there will still be a Jewish state. But ask me whether my son Amos, who will be fifty at the end of this year, has a chance of dying and being buried in a Jewish state, and I would answer: fifty-fifty." But how can you sleep with that prospect in mind,"
Who says I sleep? he answered simply. ( by Nahum Goldman, p. 99)

Source - David Ben-Gurion - A Brief Biography & Quotes.

David Ben-Gurion is generally accepted as being the founding father of modern Israel.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 14th May 2010, 23:17
Klaatu83 Klaatu83 is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
My location
Posts: 4,117
The vessel in the photograph, captioned "An Israeli navy vessel patrolling the waters near Haifa in northern Israel on 13 July 2006. [MaanImages/Magnus Johansson]" happens to be American, not Israeli. It's the USNS Apache, a sea-going tug operated by MSC, the U.S. equivalent of the British RFA. I can't help but wonder if the rest of the content of this article as just as inaccurate.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 14th May 2010, 23:32
Coastie's Avatar
Coastie Coastie is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
My location
Posts: 11,683
Quote:
Originally Posted by Binnacle View Post
Ben-Gurion told Nahum Goldman (one of the prominent Zionists leaders) before he died:

"I don't understand your optimism.," Ben-Gurion declared. "Why should the Arabs make peace? If I was an Arab leader I would never make terms with Israel. That is natural: we have taken their country. Sure, God promised it to us, but what does that matter to them? Our God is not theirs. We come from Israel, it's true, but two thousand years ago, and what is that to them? There has been anti-Semitism the Nazis, Hitler, Auschwitz, but was that their fault? They only see one thing: we have come here and stolen their country. Why should they accept that? They may perhaps forget in one or two generations' time, but for the moment there is no chance. So it's simple: we have to stay strong and maintain a powerful army. Our whole policy is there. Otherwise the Arabs will wipes us out". I was stunned by this pessimism, but he went on: "I will be seventy years old soon. Well, Nahum, if you asked me whether I shall die and be buried in a Jewish state I would tell you Yes; in ten years, fifteen years, I believe there will still be a Jewish state. But ask me whether my son Amos, who will be fifty at the end of this year, has a chance of dying and being buried in a Jewish state, and I would answer: fifty-fifty." But how can you sleep with that prospect in mind,"
Who says I sleep? he answered simply. ( by Nahum Goldman, p. 99)

Source - David Ben-Gurion - A Brief Biography & Quotes.

David Ben-Gurion is generally accepted as being the founding father of modern Israel.
Copy of an email received Feb 2009

An ingenious example of speech and politics occured recently in the United Nationa Assembly which made the world community smile.

A representative from Israel began;'Before beginning my talk I want to tell you something about Moses.

When he struck the rock and it brought forth water, he thought , 'What a good oppertunity to take a bath!'

He removed his clothes,put them aside on the rock and entered the water.

When he got out and wanted to dress, his clothes had vanished. A Palestinian had stolen them.'

The Palestinian representative jumped up furiously and shouted, 'What are you talking about? The Palestinians wern't there then.'

The Israeli representative smiled and said, 'And now we have made that clear, I will begin my speech.
__________________
Lord, keep Your arm around my shoulder and Your hand over my mouth!

"There is no such thing as a bum note...I only take the opportunity to expand the transcendental vibrations to explore the lesser known highways and byways of musical theory! I find it best to play it loud...that way no one can say you did not mean it!" Dorothy Willows

Currently testing: www.cable962.listen2myradio.com
www.yellsoundfm.listen2myradio.com
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 14th May 2010, 23:35
John Rogers's Avatar
John Rogers John Rogers is online now  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1947 - 1954
 
Join Date: May 2004
My location
Posts: 11,258
Thanks for pointing that out Klaatu83.

John.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 14th May 2010, 23:39
AncientBrit's Avatar
AncientBrit AncientBrit is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
My location
Posts: 1,589
I wondered about that when I saw the funnel markings in the photo, but desisted form making any comment that would confuse the issue any more than all the religious and political prognosticators already have.
Seems to me, if some people have lived on a land for a couple thousand years and then some other people from different lands throughout Europe, for whatever reason, figured it was right and just for them to take over that land and for the US to support them in that action is unforgivable, for those same people to now treat the original residents of that land in a fashion that is remeniscent of the Warsaw ghetto is to me, inexcusable.
__________________
Bob
Don't argue with an idiot; people watching may not be able to tell the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 15th May 2010, 00:03
dom dom is offline  
member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 13,475
dom

Quote:
Originally Posted by AncientBrit View Post
I wondered about that when I saw the funnel markings in the photo, but desisted form making any comment that would confuse the issue any more than all the religious and political prognosticators already have.
Seems to me, if some people have lived on a land for a couple thousand years and then some other people from different lands throughout Europe, for whatever reason, figured it was right and just for them to take over that land and for the US to support them in that action is unforgivable, for those same people to now treat the original residents of that land in a fashion that is remeniscent of the Warsaw ghetto is to me, inexcusable.
did'nt that happen in Canada,USA, Australia,NZ, and half the countrys in the world?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 15th May 2010, 00:07
John Rogers's Avatar
John Rogers John Rogers is online now  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1947 - 1954
 
Join Date: May 2004
My location
Posts: 11,258
Bob, it was the United Nations that granted that land to them,or as they were known back then as the League of Nations.

The British Mandate for Palestine, also known as the Palestine Mandate and the British Mandate of Palestine, was a legal instrument for the administration of Palestine formally approved by the League of Nations in June 1922, based on a draft by the principal Allied and associated powers after the First World War. The mandate formalised British rule in Palestine from 1917–1948. With the League of Nations' consent, the UK divided the Mandate territory into two administrative areas, Palestine, under direct British rule, and autonomous Transjordan, under the rule of the Hashemite family from Hijaz.[1] The preamble of the mandate declared:

Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country.[2]

The British Peel Commission had proposed a Palestine divided between a Jewish state and an Arab state. But in the 1939 White Paper Britain changed its position and sought to limit Jewish immigration from Europe. This was seen by Zionists and their sympathisers as betrayal of the terms of the mandate, especially in light of the increasing persecution of Jews in Europe. In response, Zionists organised Aliyah Bet, a program of illegal immigration into Palestine. Lehi, a small group of extreme Zionists, staged armed attacks on British authorities in Palestine. However, the Jewish Agency, which represented the mainstream Zionist leadership, still hoped to persuade Britain to allow resumed Jewish immigration, and cooperated with Britain in World War II.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 15th May 2010, 08:35
rcraig rcraig is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,695
In th meantime why should Israel feel free to to stop vessels in international waters? And if they do, why not check the cargo and let it through if it is what it is alleged to be? Or alternatively, allow the material in over land with the same proviso?
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 16th May 2010, 10:24
Binnacle's Avatar
Binnacle Binnacle is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Deck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,927
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcraig View Post
In th meantime why should Israel feel free to to stop vessels in international waters? And if they do, why not check the cargo and let it through if it is what it is alleged to be? Or alternatively, allow the material in over land with the same proviso?
rcraig, try a Google on "USS Liberty" to assist you in forming an opinion on respect for international law, or lack of it.
This is an official photo of the ship
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:USS_Liberty.jpg

Last edited by Binnacle; 16th May 2010 at 10:30..
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 16th May 2010, 15:41
rcraig rcraig is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,695
I am familiar with the incident and it does supply a unique insight into the relationship between the two nations that very little was made of it. What would have happened had it been an Arab nation involved?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 16th May 2010, 16:13
Somerton Somerton is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
My location
Posts: 354
I went through the Suez Canal in 1960 on the Port Melbourne going to Australia. I saw the Danish ship Jens Toft which was detained at that time by Egypt. She had been
there for 5 months. Her problem was that she was carrying cargo bound to Israel.

Alex C.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 31st May 2010, 11:24
LEEJ's Avatar
LEEJ LEEJ is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
My location
Posts: 566
As predicted the Isrealis have attacked and murdered at least 20 civilians in breach of The International Law of the Sea. The ships were 20 miles beyond Israels own illegal exclusion zone. Maybe they got their training from Somali pirates that so many seem to want to shoot. Any thoughts?

Rgds,
LeeJ
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 31st May 2010, 15:24
Thats another Story Thats another Story is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 3,615
why wait till dark the ships could have been searched during daylight hours israelis could and should be brought to book over this? i suppose arms will now be found on these ships weather they started on the trip or not??????
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 31st May 2010, 23:43
LEEJ's Avatar
LEEJ LEEJ is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
My location
Posts: 566
As I suspected. Not a single comment condemning this act from the shoot the pirates first brigade.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 1st June 2010, 00:06
lakercapt lakercapt is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1952 - 1998
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
My location
Posts: 2,678
Quote:
Originally Posted by LEEJ View Post
As I suspected. Not a single comment condemning this act from the shoot the pirates first brigade.
How is one to respond to such a one sided bigoted remark.
I was not aware the Gaza was a concentration camp as they have elected leaders who wish to destroy the State of Israel. Just another set up to gain international sympathy for their cause.
Hammas and Hesbola are terrorist groups (our goverment stated that) and we should give them aid and support.
I don't think so.

The perps were told not to try and do this act of stupidity but persisted therefore suffered the consequences
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Zim Israel Navigation Company China hand Other Companies/Ships 21 18th January 2015 14:09
'Israel link' in Arctic Sea case (BBC News) SN NewsCaster News and Views from the Shipping World 0 9th September 2009 20:00
Fleet Entry, Fleet Air Arm and Fleet Divisions John Briggs Other International Navies 0 2nd March 2009 07:00
Israel expels Gaza aid ship team (BBC News) SN NewsCaster News and Views from the Shipping World 1 6th February 2009 14:17



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.