Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads - Page 39 - Ships Nostalgia
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Cruise ship 'Costa Concordia' aground - merged threads

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  #951  
Old 24th January 2012, 05:18
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RayJordandpo RayJordandpo is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Anchorman View Post
Doing orals in Hull with Captain Diston, I had practically the same scenario. Expected to use breeches buoy to get everyone off. As anyone on the site used this method for real? One thing that does stick in my mind is that after getting everyone off etc etc He kept saying what now? I gave in and he said "make sure the crew are looked after ashore"
Neil
I also did orals with Capt Diston. He went through the same with me regarding the breeches buoy. I nearly got involved in an argument with him about how to fire a rocket line but thought better of it.
I have never actually been in a breeches buoy but rigged one up with the coastguard in Shetland where we ran aground one bleak winter many years ago
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  #952  
Old 24th January 2012, 06:34
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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On the salvage/wreck removal question, you will see interviews with Mike Lacey of the International Salvage Union. Mike is "of the cloth" as a former deck officer and is the ex-MD of United Towing; he knows his stuff.

The calculation goes like this:

If working on a no cure - no pay basis, such as Lloyds Form, the salvage award must be a proportion of the value saved (the "salved fund").

The salved fund will be the greater of either the scrap value or the sound value less the cost of repairs.

You can see at once that the salved fund will be very small - these ships are built by assembling pre-fabricated modules and it would cost more to rebuild a sunken and damaged vessel than to build from new.

If the salved fund is less than the cost of the salvage operation, salvage is a suicidal business proposition and therefore a non-starter.

That's what we have got here. In such circumstances, the salvors will offer to do the job on a day rate contract, transferring the risk to the underwriters, who will decline it and agree a CTL.

At that point the buck passes to the P+I Club who will contract with the salvors to remove the wreck.
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  #953  
Old 24th January 2012, 08:37
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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Hi, Beersailor and RandCMackenzie(936 and 937 above)- Good morning!

I'd guess that all navigators are in complete agreement with our suppositions and, for sure, I have no familiarity with that area at all and neither have I yet studied the chart, other than superficially. What marks might be available I do not know.

But what is perfectly clear by Captain Schettini's own admissions is that he was a victim of complacency, which is perhaps the worst enemy of us all. What might have caused the complacency, in circumstances which would have had most navigators on their toes and chomping at the bit in anticipation (if not excitement), remains to be seen. Eternal vigilance, ColRegs, proper look-out etc., etc.; ad infinitum.

Best,

BY
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  #954  
Old 24th January 2012, 09:30
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Way back in the dim and distant fog of time in the late 50's early 60's there was a Mike Lacey who was in NZS and trained on the Cadet Ships. Not sure which one.
Would this be the same man? He would be approaching his early seventies if it is he.
If it is the same person he was a top guy and you will be able to believe what he has to say.
Regardless of whether it is him or not I am sure he will know what can and cannot be done. With a pedigree like that he will know the game.
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  #955  
Old 24th January 2012, 09:46
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randcmackenzie View Post
Very true John.

The purpose of the bar has become obscured.

Its original, and in my opinion, sole purpose is to take the weight of the chain when the ship IS AT ANCHOR.

Then all kinds of enthusiasts wanted things set out so that with the anchor hove tight home, the bar dropped in front of the link.

Surveyors got their noses into it and it became enshrined in this is how it should be.

However, when it is you cannot release the anchor without power to heave up a bit and raise the bar.

Ideally, the bar should be lying over the centre of the link, one has then only got to raise the bar, remove lashing and Devil's Claw, and let go the anchor - very cautiously....

B/R
Very true R , Shouldn't really be used when anchor hove up hard in
pipe , but it nearly always is.

Also your post re approaching to a few miles S of island then a
parallel course is of course the most sensible and safest.
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JC ; same initials-but the other guy did the miracles.
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  #956  
Old 24th January 2012, 09:51
Piero43 Piero43 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roger View Post
Clearly propellers ; so much for all the i pod talk .
Derek, you have been confused by all the Apple phones bric-a-brac!
The name of vertical steerable propellers is Azipod!
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  #957  
Old 24th January 2012, 10:20
Piero43 Piero43 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerSailor View Post
Fergus,
I have wondered what lights are available on this coast and are such mundane procedures as taking visual bearings still carried out?
Approaching from south-east: the Capel Rosso Lighthouse (extreme southern cape of Giglio), red and green lanterns at the entrance of Giglio Porto harbour. At the northern cape of Giglio there is Fenaio Lighthouse. Plus all the villages lights that can give you some good reference about where you are.
Piero
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  #958  
Old 24th January 2012, 10:24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike S View Post
Way back in the dim and distant fog of time in the late 50's early 60's there was a Mike Lacey who was in NZS and trained on the Cadet Ships. Not sure which one.
Would this be the same man? He would be approaching his early seventies if it is he.
If it is the same person he was a top guy and you will be able to believe what he has to say.
Regardless of whether it is him or not I am sure he will know what can and cannot be done. With a pedigree like that he will know the game.
Right age, but the Mike Lacey I am thinking of is ex Shaw Savill; I've known him since 1975, when he and I were colleagues at the solicitors who acted for Smit, Bugsier and a good many others:
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Mike%20Lacy.jpg (22.7 KB, 26 views)

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 24th January 2012 at 10:27..
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  #959  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:01
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In the narrative provided in the clip advanced by GWB it would appear that her bow thrusters were deployed. If she was bereft of her main power from her main gennies one must assume that her back up gennies (emergency) powered the thrusters.

Am I correct in this assumption?


BW

J

Last edited by jmcg; 24th January 2012 at 11:40.. Reason: P in "assumtion"
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  #960  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:16
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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The one was Lemp. The other Prien.
They showed us much that we have seen.
By cunning and the power to think,
They made our precious vessels sink.

Lemp it was who sank the Liner,
That awful night in Thirty-Niner.
Prien then had another go.
He sailed right into Scapa Flow.

Said he, "Vhy? Zis is vot ve're doing,
Vhere Englisch pipple go canoeing!
Ve give ze Englischmen some schocks!
Ve navigate betveen zer rocks!"

He was a truly clever Kraut.
He got clean in and then clean out.
Where others said, "This can't be done"
Prien said, "It kan! Ich bin ein Hun!"

And so he planned it carefully,
His passage from the open sea:
From mark to mark by periscope,
By guts and skill and prayer and hope,

He found a navigable channel
Which others had dismissed as flannel:
And thus he was allowed to boast
That he was good, upon the coast.

"Eternal wigilence, mein Freund,
Vill get you zere! Das ist der Point!"
This lesson we were taught by Prien.
How much has happened, in between?

Please may I be forgiven?

BY
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  #961  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:25
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Just love that! All concerned would too!
As far as I'm concerned you are forgiven.
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  #962  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmcg View Post
In the narrative provided in the clip advanced by GWB it would appear that her bow thrusters were deployed. If she was bereft of her main power from her main gennies one must assume that her back up gennies (emergency) powered the thrusters.

Am I correct in this assumtion?


BW

J
We don't know, but it seems most unlikely, to me.

I would think that whilst the emergency generator(s) are required to give steering power on a passenger ship the starting current for a thruster would be far in excess of what an emergency generator could provide.

In a diesel electric ship, it makes sense for the thrusters, of which she seems to have five, three bow, two stern, to be powered from the main generating installation; I cannot see why they would be connected to the emergency board.

And above all, having lost the engine room, with the emergency generator powering the lighting, who would risk plunging a heeling ship into darkness by having the emergency generator trip off the board due to the starting current for a thruster?
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  #963  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:29
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Good one Fergus ...

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  #964  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:31
patrick O`Maracou patrick O`Maracou is offline
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Franceso is a fenian ,wonder if Benny in Rome will help in his hour of need,ten hail Marys and silver in the tray for you El Capitano.Patrick.
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  #965  
Old 24th January 2012, 11:38
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#962

Thanks for your useful comment. It confirmed my confusion and perhaps throws some considerable doubt over the use of the thrusters as advanced in the clip.

BW

J

Last edited by jmcg; 24th January 2012 at 11:43.. Reason: .
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  #966  
Old 24th January 2012, 12:31
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Andrew,

No difference to your conclusions but I would guess that starting current might not be an issue.

It is the fashion to use electronic starters/drives and if so it is basic MCR figure that is of interest.

David V
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  #967  
Old 24th January 2012, 12:45
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Thanks for the correction, David - I was out of my depth / showing my age there!
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  #968  
Old 24th January 2012, 12:54
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve View Post
She's gone boatman, sent me the usual shitty e mail, I'll probably get the usual "remove all my post's or i'll sue you' nonsense ............sigh
Well, I don't think any of you should be proud of the schoolboy bully tactics used to make her choose to go.

Basic courtesy should dictate that if you didn't like her posts you could have ignored them.

Also lacking was the sailor's basic tolerance born out of realising that when you joined a ship with a slack handful of unknowns for an unknown extended period, you had better all get along, because the guy you fell out with on day 10, would still be there on days 110, 210, even 310, and all the days in between.
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  #969  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:00
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Cruise ship "Costa Concordia" aground

Quote:
Originally Posted by randcmackenzie View Post
Well, I don't think any of you should be proud of the schoolboy bully tactics used to make her choose to go.

Basic courtesy should dictate that if you didn't like her posts you could have ignored them.

Also lacking was the sailor's basic tolerance born out of realising that when you joined a ship with a slack handful of unknowns for an unknown extended period, you had better all get along, because the guy you fell out with on day 10, would still be there on days 110, 210, even 310, and all the days in between.
That is as it may be but - you send a shitty email to the boss and you shoot yourself in the foot.
As he has requested, let it drop.
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  #970  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:08
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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Piero - 957 - Many thanks for the information.
AllanC -961 and Andysk 963 - Tee Hee and many thanks!

BY
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  #971  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:08
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I cautiously suggest that she lost steerage way with the wind (12mph, NE'ly) on her port bow. I think that the bows blew off to starboard, with the ship pivoting round her props, which act as sea anchors, until she was broadside to the wind; she then remained lying across the wind (same windage all along the hull) and blew ashore.

I think that she had already assumed an angle of loll to starboard due to progressive flooding. This increased at some point. As Cisco pointed out earlier, the helicopter infra red video shows her higher out of the water than she is now, but already on her beam ends.

edited to add: video clip here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GYvlH...eature=related

Last edited by Andrew Craig-Bennett; 24th January 2012 at 13:59..
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  #972  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:16
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I have sent a polite PM to the boss, and let me say I am neither happy about the way this thread has gone, nor of the 'attitude' of some of our more recent members, nor do I have any intention of resigning or withdrawing financial support. As a non-sailor, I love this site, and will be remaining with it unless expelled for heresy.
For now.
Wait and see!

Last edited by allanc; 24th January 2012 at 13:22..
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  #973  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:20
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How may it be that the speculations of some are more acceptable than the speculations of others?

Just asking. IMHO none us really knows.

Last edited by allanc; 24th January 2012 at 13:23..
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  #974  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:26
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For a layperson it's difficult to understand how she managed the sharp course change without the use of thrusters. We need some expert opinion here.
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  #975  
Old 24th January 2012, 13:46
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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Until any other evidence might appear, I would agree with A C-B's view at (971) above.

The sharp turn to starboard (if without power or steerage) could only have happened naturally, rather than have been managed.

BY
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