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Bankline in the 50's....

195K views 826 replies 74 participants last post by  skemp 
#1 ·
Wood decks, open rails, serene quiet progress across the oceans...
stifling heat in the cabins, lucky to have an oscillating fan, or a wind cowel to stick out of the port
steam winches, cracking and banging, draining and jerking
heat your own water, with a steam line in the bath
then there was the wire sounding line! ( only used it once)
followed by an ultra modern wet paper echo sounder - OK if the paper was wet...
D/F - the less said the better

Would put it all to poetry if I had time, but too busy 60 years on...
Cheers/AL
 
#410 · (Edited)
Bulk Cargo Trimming.....

John Campbell's sorry saga of copra trimming reminds me of the problem of the No.4 Hold on the "Beaverbank" Class. This was presumably similar to the layout aboard "Southbank" but I stand corrected on this point.

No.4 Hold was served through No.6 hatch and extended all the way back to the after peak bulkhead underneath the tonnage hatch, crew accommodation and the poop hatch. Normally, the grain rules only permitted a maximum of 15 feet of under-haul from the hatchway but this No.4 hold was much further making bulk cargo trimming in this area more difficult to achieve and to supervise.

But the tonnage hatch could be opened through to the lower hold below.

Inside the tonnage hatch space at shelter deck level, was another similarly-dimensioned hatch opening but, unlike the upper deck tonnage opening, fitted with cleats and battens. This additional access gave better access to the after end of No.4 hold and substantially aided in avoiding void spaces in this area.

The enmity between Master and Mate over cargo stowage was definitely counter productive to the smooth running of the ship and as was often customary at the time, the poor apprentices suffered! How we ever made it to untwisted adulthood is a wonder! Did we learn anything from the observation of superiors? You bet! This immediately post-WWII generation of apprentices eventually charted ashore and afloat, the brighter future and professionalism of the British Merchant Navy but was then betrayed by the subsequent industrialization of the service.

Time moves on and we nostalgistas are reduced to fondly reminiscing about hard, back-breaking graft and the apparent idiocy of our elders and betters!
 
#415 ·
Full and down - homeward...

Bulk copra in the dry cargo holds, bagged cocoa and coffee beans in the tween decks, bulk coconut oil in the deeptanks and lead ingots from Port Pirrie for bottom weight.... as full and down as any happy ship operator could wish for!
That's right, Alistair - forgot about the lead ingots which made up usually about 4000 tons of bottom weight. Not sure about Port Pirie, which I thought was a grain port. The lead we loaded was from Townsville, in Queensland.

As mentioned elsewhere in these threads, the lead in the holds of the wrecked Southbank was many years later salvaged from the Washington Island site in the Line Islands. It must have been as good as the day it was loaded, and probably had appreciated in value.
 
#414 · (Edited)
Alan, you are correct- we also loaded cocoa nut oil in Rabaul - how could I forget the back breaking work in hoisting the tank lids on and then trying to get them tight with no power tools, defective bolts, just rat tailed spanners etc.

Alistair, we Apps had ten happy days with a first class Master Stafford-Watts and Chief Officer Broadly. So we knew that there were better senior officers about. Those two villans who releived them for the voyage were the exception -they came through the war-judging from the chest full of medal bars they wore. They never talked about it as far as I knew except they both displayed a common hatred for the Royal Navy for some reason and refused to dip ensigns on occasion.They refer to us Apps as Army Dodgers.

Re Capt.Stafford Watts -he was a good Master. On my very first day I went to look around the Southbank. I found myself on the, unknown to me at the time,Captain's Deck and I was leaning over the wing looking at the barges tied up alongside. Suddenly I found Capt SW behind me and he introduced himself.
After he found out about me he said "Laddie just remember this -this is the Master's Deck and you cannot come here unless ordered or going to and from the bridge- you have been told nicely I do hope you will remember "
We had a good 3rd Mate that trip-McLintock,a Glaswegian, who went to Houlders and then ashore in Rio as a Super-he always said "Don't let these B---sgrind you down"The first time I had heard that expression
Happy Days though and I learned a lot on that first trip despite those senior offs.
 
#418 ·
Bulk Cargo Trimming.....

Oh! And I just forgot those pesky trimming hatches that were scattered throughout the tween decks providing unwelcome obstructions to the stowage of general cargo. These were also a means of getting bulk copra into the far recesses of a lower hold to fill up voids.

Stevedores in the U.S. Gulf used to complain all the time about Bank Boats' raised tween deck hatch coamings and the raised trimming hatches in wing spaces. Of course, that was back in the shelterdeck configuration days!
 
#419 ·
unitisation

Oh! And I just forgot those pesky trimming hatches that were scattered throughout the tween decks providing unwelcome obstructions to the stowage of general cargo. These were also a means of getting bulk copra into the far recesses of a lower hold to fill up voids.

Stevedores in the U.S. Gulf used to complain all the time about Bank Boats' raised tween deck hatch coamings and the raised trimming hatches in wing spaces. Of course, that was back in the shelterdeck configuration days!
Working in the West African conference in 1973, I had a brief to advance the concept of unitisation - from breakbulk - to pallets - to containers, and this was a monumental change . Just like a cargo handling tsunami . And so it proved as we look back...

The first (expensive) decision taken by the member lines was to flush the tween decks of all the ships as far as possible, to facilitate fork lift use. We also devised a rebate scheme to all the shippers willing to export cargoes fully pallitised. A container service was also started ( ACE Containers)

All was in vain, as the next decade saw the tide sweep over all, just like the Bank Line.

With the amazing benefit of hindsight, the better solution would have been to introduce highly flexible quarter ramp ships, as advocated by the Scandinavians in the conference.
 
#422 ·
Can remember choking on Asbestos dust while loading bags of the raw stuff in ( think it was) Mombasa? The effects usually kick in about now.... Health and Safety - where were you when you were wanted?


Then there was Soda Ash in bags - Was that Mombasa also - does anyone know?
Yes Alan-we loaded Soda Ash there for Colombo and Calcutta along with Wattle Bark on the Eskbank in 1955.
JC
 
#423 ·
Break Bulk Cargo....

Had an interesting discussion in my college class today (International Commerce and Logistics) examining the transition from breakbulk through the unit load to containerization when it struck me that the unit load concept had a very brief existence and was prematurely overtaken by the container.

Pallets and pre-slinging made very handy units and, of course, the bulk-bag has come along which has enhanced the unit load arrangement even further. Macandrews and UBC were parties to the Unit Load Council and I have the supporting literature that was issued to encourage shippers to conform. Bank Line used these guidelines in the U.S. Gulf for shippers to Australia and New Zealand.

Whilst we did not go as far as some deep sea operators to adapt their ships to the unit load principle, like triple hatch openings and deck cranes, and the removal of tween deck coamings and other obstructions, the unitization concept was most promising and quickly improved productivity and reduced costs.

The question that my students raised was the huge cost of containerization in ships, boxes and terminals worth it? After all, the unit load concept was comparatively cheap to introduce and implement, whereas containerization required a revolution!

I know this is stable door territory and many of you are aware of my hobby horse but the question has been asked by young enquiring minds who never knew 'the good old days: Has containerization delivered on its original promise to shippers of reducing overall transportation costs, accelerated cargo velocity along the supply chain, protected cargo from theft or damage and provided more regularity and dependability of service?

Incidentally, the quarter ro-ro ramp, on-deck lateral transporters, hull loading doors and the Spliethoff side-loading elevator ships of their current S-Class are features that speak to the viable alternative that is the unit load concept.

Come on... sock it to me!
 
#425 ·
Container effects..

Had an interesting discussion in my college class today (International Commerce and Logistics) examining the transition from breakbulk through the unit load to containerization when it struck me that the unit load concept had a very brief existence and was prematurely overtaken by the container.

Pallets and pre-slinging made very handy units and, of course, the bulk-bag has come along which has enhanced the unit load arrangement even further. Macandrews and UBC were parties to the Unit Load Council and I have the supporting literature that was issued to encourage shippers to conform. Bank Line used these guidelines in the U.S. Gulf for shippers to Australia and New Zealand.

Whilst we did not go as far as some deep sea operators to adapt their ships to the unit load principle, like triple hatch openings and deck cranes, and the removal of tween deck coamings and other obstructions, the unitization concept was most promising and quickly improved productivity and reduced costs.

The question that my students raised was the huge cost of containerization in ships, boxes and terminals worth it? After all, the unit load concept was comparatively cheap to introduce and implement, whereas containerization required a revolution!

I know this is stable door territory and many of you are aware of my hobby horse but the question has been asked by young enquiring minds who never knew 'the good old days: Has containerization delivered on its original promise to shippers of reducing overall transportation costs, accelerated cargo velocity along the supply chain, protected cargo from theft or damage and provided more regularity and dependability of service?

Incidentally, the quarter ro-ro ramp, on-deck lateral transporters, hull loading doors and the Spliethoff side-loading elevator ships of their current S-Class are features that speak to the viable alternative that is the unit load concept.

Come on... sock it to me!
Difficult to quantify the effects of containerisation and the clear proof of cash benefits. There will be studies out there published( some PH.D thesis, maybe?). However, there is the evidence of the eyes, and the experience of seeing trades regulated, schedules tightened, uncertainties removed, forecasts sharpened much more accurately, and throughputs dramatically improved. For the same tonnage employed over a given time period, e.g. 1 year, I would hazard a pure guess that the throughput on a like for like basis is better than 400%. i.e. 4 voyages for one previously. Could be more.

The streamlining of cargo flows into boxes, removed regular losses through damage and pilfering, and hugely reduced the dependence on labour, and lowered the risk of strike losses due to nuisance strikes etc. This was managed by the introduction of higher skilled labour and enforceable negotiated contracts, doing away with the casual labour element.

At great expense and with some cataclysmic upheaval, shipowners finally shrugged off the ever present mantle of malicious and damaging wildcat strikes beloved of the dockers and wharfies in the industry. Dockers got much better pay at the expense of the jobs of their mates, something which probably didn't worry them.

It was a positive and modern change, long overdue, and comparable to the effects of the 19th Century industrial revolution, no less.
 
#424 ·
The main costs of Port modifications and specialist unloaders were covered by the local or national tax systems in most European countries. The investment was and is, (in the case of the second Maasvlate project), very safe, as there is an increased flow of funds provided by the port dues. There is the problem of the present recession, but this is actually quite unimportant with respect to recovery of costs. In addition, port investments, at this particular time, are assisting in generating growth and keeping employment figures up. There is,of course, constant repair and maintenance of Containers and Equipment for handling them which takes up the slack of the loss of ship yards and the stevedores.

A point, Big Bags, usually one cubic meter capacity, were being used in Rotterdam from about 1972, usually for bulk fertilizer.
 
#426 · (Edited)
more on containeriaion...

Sweeping up the Autumn leaves - lovely beech and not so lovely sycamore leaves set me thinking how to justify my assertion that the revenue from containers shot up 400% or more.....

Would be interesting to see an understandable study, but in the meantime...

Take a 10,000 ton general cargo ship loading a full cargo ( excluding bulk) running on a regular route and we know this loading period averaged 10 to 14 strike free days. ( In London and Liverpool, at least) Just comparing the loading period, and ignoring the length of voyage and therefore the annual number of trips, after the dedicated container ships came in ( thinking of the ' baby' Bay class Australian trade ships) - they were 20,000 tons plus and they loaded a full load in 2 to 3 days working round the clock. i.e. 60,000 tons for a 10 to 14 day period. a factor of +6! This is a substantial benefit and maybe what students should be told.

Of course, it could be done because of one major, major, benefit of the boxes. THEY COULD BE PRE-LOADED INLAND. This meant, for example, that it was common to load 3000 to 4000 tons on one 8 hr night shift alone. Like shelling peas... Absolutely. I was a shift manager on the Australian 37 berth in Tilbury in the early days, and woe betide anything or anyone that got in the way of the night programme. To induce the dockers to go like hell, I would permit an early ' pop ' or better still a showing of blue movies in a 40ft container afterwards as a bonus!

The UK / Australia NZ trade makes a good study. It was ideal because the traffic ( even wool) was suited to boxes; the hinterlands around the ports had good and accessible roads with facilities. Most of the uncertainties, ( except weather) could be ironed out, and the annual pattern established well in advance. What happened as we have said elsewhere in these threads, is that everyone else in the industry got carried away a bit, and started trying to containerise totally or partially unsuitable trades using quite often unsuitable equipment, i.e. the port hole reefers that Bank Line unfortunately bought.

I guess we could go on and on , and it IS interesting. Many of the strongly held anti container views do have a valid thread, and this is due to the rush to stuff everything into boxes. This, apart from the loss of fun and longer port stays that we all enjoyed in the lazy 50's!
 
#427 ·
Perhaps we could also consider the loss of employment in 3rd world countries, both in the reduction of stevedore labour and the parties that used to be employed chipping and painting the ship's side.

Whilst in the 1st world people have diversified and found other employment this does not seem to have happened in the likes of New Guinea and East Africa.
 
#431 ·
Easing back towards the fifties,I profitted from the reorganisation of the docks, cargo handling,and the movement away from the traditional allocation of work.
A scheme was introduced where dockers who left this style of employment were paid severance money and many of them bought shiny new cars with their "bonuses" and allegedly returned to the same work under a different name
" It's an ill wind ",I was sales manager of the Ford dealership in the Commercial Road.
 
#433 ·
memory recall...

Mulling over my early days at sea ( and at sea school earlier) I realised I could perfectly recall the faces of many shipmates and colleagues. Not all, and some ships are a complete blank! However, for example, I can muster 7 of the Liverpool deck crew of the Maplebank, just as if time has stood still. The time lapse is nigh on 60 years, so I am wondering if this is normal?

It seems the random nature of this ability must depend on the impression made at the time.

Any ' shrinks ' out there with an answer?
 
#434 ·
Maplebank

Mulling over my early days at sea ( and at sea school earlier) I realised I could perfectly recall the faces of many shipmates and colleagues. Not all, and some ships are a complete blank! However, for example, I can muster 7 of the Liverpool deck crew of the Maplebank, just as if time has stood still. The time lapse is nigh on 60 years, so I am wondering if this is normal?

It seems the random nature of this ability must depend on the impression made at the time.

Any ' shrinks ' out there with an answer?
Hi Alan,
Just a longshot. Reading an old book earlier today I saw that on July 1st 1969 MAPLEBANK whilst 300 odd miles off Bermuda came across an overturned 60foot catamaran and it had no signs of identity or crew. Just wondered if you had heard of this and if later any the craft was identified. I was thirty years at sea but not with Bank Line.
Thanks
Stuart
 
#438 · (Edited)
Selectve memory....

Thanks Guys.... Glad I'm not alone on the ( photographic) memory recall thing. Makes me wonder if we only remember the good bits though and shut out the rest!

Maybe the time lag acts as a filter and all the good times rise to the top - in my case all of Ernebank, Inchanga,Eastbank, Maplebank, Southbank, and any other patchy memories slowly fade away.
 
#439 ·
Memories....

Thinking of people we've sailed with, don't you think we always intimately recall those who were senior to us rather than those who were our juniors, except when they were special buddies? All the others meld into Board of Trade Acquaintances which is not to say we didn't enjoy them as shipmates, but they have just become background connections.

This has become very evident to me as I climbed the ranks making fewer and fewer real friends and relegating everyone else to shipmate status.

Fortunately we have SN to re-make old connections which would have languished had it not been for this wonderful site!
 
#447 · (Edited)
Catching up with old shipmates/......

How's this for a record?

Have found a fellow apprentice from 1951 - exactly 60 years ago after not hearing a word over all that time!

It was a chance contact - thanks to the internet.

Ian Harvey and I were together on the Inchanga throughout 1951 ( Johny Ray - Just crying in the rain, and all that!) and is now retired in a suburb of Capetown after a successful career in the Ports service.

When we were together Capt Lynch - later Super in S Africa was the 2/0 and Capt Jackson was ruling the roost...


Oops..... it was 1952 Make it 59 years
 
#448 ·
Do any of you ex Bank Line Apps recall the event in the late 50's when the Officers Boy (Steward) murdered the Butler by cutting of his penis leading to his death through lack of blood?. The ship was on its way home from the South Pacific I think and I believe the Indian Catering Steward was sentenced after a trial at the Old Bailey - Is this story true ? can any one confirm and what ship it was? JC
 
#451 ·
murder



Eastbank - 1958

True story - joined her shortly after the event, and the gossip was that it was a marital dispute. Heard a gory account that there was a huge amount of blood which was seeping under the cabin door. This last bit always sounded a bit far fetched to me, but it certainly was a sad affair, and the perpetrator was banged up in the UK after his trial.
 
#450 ·
Murderer on Board!

Another homicide I heard about was on the "Riverbank" en route from Singapore to Mauritius on the Oriental African Line. Master was Wilkie Rutherford.
Chinese crew. One crewman was murdered but the perpetrator was not identified. Ship deviated to Colombo and police boarded. Could discover nothing and told Master he could continue on the voyage.
So the ship proceded to Mauritius with a murderer on board...but who?
 
#452 ·
Bridge shenanigans..

I have been idly wondering where we are today in 2011 when it comes to the teaching and use of navigation. In the British merchant Navy ( the dregs of it) do they still teach and examine in Astro Nav i.e. Longitude by Chronometer, Intercept star sights etc etc?? Does anyone know the current situation, or is it true that sextants are no longer carried on board. Are they saturated with Sat Navs?

In the 50's the bridge rituals were hilarious to anyone with a sense of humour, but it was all tinged with a bit of terror, especially if the traditional line up for the noon Latitude resulted in wildly different figures! and doubly embarassing if it was the Master being the odd one out.

I can recall a ship in the mid 50's (no names etc) where the master ( a great personality - well liked) would appear unsteadily every day without fail, but somewhere between lining up on the bridge wing and actually producing a result, he would slip back down to his cabin muttering some excuse. The same gentleman would lean over the chart, glass in hand ( and I don't mean a telescope) and blearily enquire what was going on. Frequently the glass would slosh a few drops of Scotch onto the Admiralty chart. Great memories and infinitely preferable in my book to the authoritarian types who stood there in stony silence, clearing their throats occasionally.
 
#457 ·
I have been idly wondering where we are today in 2011 when it comes to the teaching and use of navigation. In the British merchant Navy ( the dregs of it) do they still teach and examine in Astro Nav i.e. Longitude by Chronometer, Intercept star sights etc etc?? Does anyone know the current situation, or is it true that sextants are no longer carried on board. Are they saturated with Sat Navs?

In the 50's the bridge rituals were hilarious to anyone with a sense of humour, but it was all tinged with a bit of terror, especially if the traditional line up for the noon Latitude resulted in wildly different figures! and doubly embarassing if it was the Master being the odd one out.

I can recall a ship in the mid 50's (no names etc) where the master ( a great personality - well liked) would appear unsteadily every day without fail, but somewhere between lining up on the bridge wing and actually producing a result, he would slip back down to his cabin muttering some excuse. The same gentleman would lean over the chart, glass in hand ( and I don't mean a telescope) and blearily enquire what was going on. Frequently the glass would slosh a few drops of Scotch onto the Admiralty chart. Great memories and infinitely preferable in my book to the authoritarian types who stood there in stony silence, clearing their throats occasionally.
Alan,not sure whether sextants are carried on proper ships,BUT certainly P&O cruise ships have one on on the bridge,brought out and dusted when the nav team have a stall on open day.
Not sure if I mentioned it before,but during a chat withe the ships navigator on the Arcadia,i was flabergasted to be told(after having asked the question)that he had no idea what a deviascopw was so I had to presume that the compass as we old salts knew it is no more.

jim
 
#453 ·
Bridge Shenanigans.....

We used to have a day's run sweepstake aboard "Inchanga" on the long sea leg between Colombo and Mombasa. The latitude calculation was a bit tricky because we were running along ther equator and it was even worse during the equinox days. Running all around the bridge wings to catch the relevant latitude!

Nevertheless, we had to have a noon 'fix' in order to satisfy the punters. I had a deal with a young lady passenger that I would give her the heads-up of the likely day's run by taking a preliminary altitude before the team gathered for the official sight. I then worked out the day's run. and indicated to her with fingers over the dodger of the number she should bet on. She was waiting on the boat deck for the signal and did the necessarey with a view to splitting the pot!

Well, the Old Man was one of these Masters who wanted and got his own way. When the 2nd. Mate and I (I was Third Mate) were close and the Captain was the outlier, we always 'split the difference' by agreeing to the Master's number. It was very frustrating!

What did I do with the profits from the inside information provided to my accomplice?

Not a thing! We never won!
 
#454 ·
On the Blue Star A Boats, we were always hinted as to what would be the last digit of the day's run. When 2/o put the chit up in the foyer, surprise, the Lady preferred always seemed to win.
Sorry, I know it's off topic, but a bit relevant, only different funnel livery. (Much prettier).[=P]
 
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