Collision regulations and rowing boats - Ships Nostalgia
20:28

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Collision regulations and rowing boats

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 12th July 2012, 04:54
blindkiwi blindkiwi is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 16
Collision regulations and rowing boats

I have been trying to research this topic without success and thought I would try the combined knowledge base of SN members.

I would be interested to know whether there is any case law which has established whether "rowing boats", "canoes", "kayaks" and other such vessels are "vessels propelled by machinery" and hence "power driven vessels" in the context of the collision regs. There must be several thousand google entries on this subject. Most of these are aimed at the small boating fraternity and have simplified versions of the rules, and frequently give opposing opinions but dont answer the question with authority. Basically, there seem to be two schools of thought which are summarized as follows.

1 An oar is a lever and a lever is a machine, albeit a simple one. Therefore, such a vessel is a "power driven vessel".

alternatively

2 The rules make special reference to navigation lights for small rowing boats which are different from those for power driven vessels and sailing vessels. Therefore, such a vessel is not a power driven vessel.

I was interested in the recent judgement regarding "jet-skis" being ships but it doesn't answer my current question.

Thanks in advance for any help.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 12th July 2012, 10:42
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
Where the Colregs say anything at all about vessels under oars, they seem to make it clear at Rule 25 ("Sailing vessels under way and vessels under oars") and Rule 25 (d) (ii) ("A vessel under oars") that such a vessel (regardless of size) is neither a power-driven vessel nor a sailing vessel.

The distinction arises from the provisions that all power driven vessels (including those of less than 7 metres in length (Rule 23(c) (ii)) are obliged to show at least some light ; and the separate provisions for sailing vessels at Rule 25 which show a further express distinction in the case of Rule 25(d) (ii) for vessels under oars, which have no obligation to show fixed lights at all.

That being so, the argument that a vessel under oars is a power-driven vessel because she is propelled by the machinery of a lever (or levers) is not a convincing argument. If she were a power driven vessel, the Colregs at 23 (c) (ii) would require her to show at least an all-round white light and, if practicable, sidelights - from which obligation any vessel under oars is expressly exempt.

For those reasons it seems that a vessel under oars is neither a power driven vessel nor a sailing vessel for the purpose of the Colregs. I agree that any further clarification would be helpful and unfortunately I know of no case law on the point.

(Save only the well-known case of Mr Albert Haddock who, when rowing along Chiswick Embankment, collided with a motor-car, the Embankment being flooded at the time!). But that was a case of who had right of way (Was the Embankment a road or a river at the time?) . Mr Haddock wisely did not seek to argue that a motor car was a vessel of any kind!

Last edited by Barrie Youde; 12th July 2012 at 10:44..
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 12th July 2012, 11:41
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
For an answer with authority, the true answer seems to be that all authorities are silent on the point, save that the Colregs expressly provide (and in some detail) that a vessel under oars is to be considered as something different from a vessel under power - to the extent that a vessel under oars cannot as a matter of law be held to be a power-driven vessel.

Further suggestions welcome!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 12th July 2012, 11:52
kenharrow kenharrow is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 539
Would that have been Capain Haddock?
Regards, Tintin.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 12th July 2012, 13:49
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
Er, not quite!

This Mr Haddock was the creation of AP Herbert, as the persistent and vexatious plaintiff in his Misleading Cases - which was a TV series in the 1960s.

Roy Dotrice played Mr Haddock and the magnificent Alistair Sim usually played the Judge.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 12th July 2012, 14:07
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18,423
I could be wrong, but I think Ken got you there, Barrie.

John T
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12th July 2012, 14:12
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
An interesting point arising out of the Colregs is that a fully-manned Greek trireme or Roman Galley (or even the splendid new Gloriana) would not be obliged to show any fixed lights when under oars, but merely to "have ready at hand an electric torch or lighted lantern showing a white light which shall be exhibited in sufficient time to prevent collision."

As to steering and sailing rules (as distinct from lights) the Colregs seem to be totally silent as to the rights and obligations of any rowing boat; thus raising an obligation of caution for all where any such craft are concerned. It would certainly seem that neither a sailing vessel nor a power driven vessel could claim right of way as against a vessel under oars, nor vice versa: save in the case where a vessel under oars (a racing eight?) might be the overtaking vessel and would be obliged to keep clear of anything which she might overtake.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 12th July 2012, 14:16
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
As for coxless fours at maximum speed, when set against the obligation to keep a proper look-out, the mind boggles!
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12th July 2012, 14:34
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18,423
News item from last month:
http://video.au.msn.com/watch/video/...-ferry/xs4bvj6

Result: River Cat Skipper 1 Coxless Pair 0. The rowers were in the wrong place at the right time.

John T
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 12th July 2012, 15:21
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,923
Quite so!

I rather think that that is what concerns Blindkiwi as he shunts his stern-wheeler around the lake!

No joke if an oarsman gets more than a ducking.

Which reminds me of the time when I was a boy (circa 1956) and my Dad was piloting an Anchor Line passenger ship inward bound for Liverpool Landing Stage. He was approaching New Brighton at twelve knots or more one fine summer evening when a man in a kayak set off from New Brighton beach and managed to get himself capsized in Dad's bow-wave, or at least in his wash. New Brighton Lifeboat was launched and, fortunately, our man was rescued and taken to Victoria Central Hospital. Once fast at the Landing Stage, Dad and the shipmaster (Captain James McGill Brown, I think) went to see him in hospital - a trip which they would both have preferred not to have had to make.

A point which sticks in my mind is the report in the Liverpool Echo, which recorded the canoeist's Mother saying (when she heard the lifeboat maroons go up) "I'll bet that's for our Norman!"
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
MSC ferry rowing boats. brianrob1961 Places, People & Events of Maritime Interest 9 26th October 2014 09:20
Looking for radio regulations book hughesy The Radio Room 26 1st May 2012 12:36
Music Vessel Regulations aooleary Ship Research 6 16th March 2011 07:44
US regulations willincity News and Views from the Shipping World 4 23rd April 2009 00:57
Boy missing from rowing boat Pompeyfan News and Views from the Shipping World 12 29th November 2006 18:05



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.