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  #1  
Old 6th June 2005, 16:43
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RCHARLTON RCHARLTON is offline  
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Scotia

Does anyone have any information on the Cunard cargo ship Scotia (5837 Tons) built in 1966 and sold in 1970 to Singapore and renamed Neptune Amber. In the late sixties Cunard had weekly service between Liverpool and New York as well as US East Coast Outport service (Boston, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Norfolk etc.). This was all handled by the four sister ships Saxonia, Ivernia , Media, and Parthia as well as the two sister ships Scythia and Samaria. From her tonnage it would appear that Scotia was also a sister ship of these last two. I sailed on Saxonia at that time but for the life of me cannot remember anything about the Scotia or what service she was on. Can anyone help? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 6th June 2005, 16:59
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If you go to http://www.mowbars.plus.com the merchant navy site, look under ships "scotia" you will find 2 names of crew who sailed on her, with their e-mail addresses. Over to you now.
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  #3  
Old 6th June 2005, 21:19
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The 'Scotia'

Hi Ray,
The Media, Ivernia, Parthia and Saxonia were the original four 'Mickey Mouse' boats, (or 'Lambretta's, as they were referred to by the Pazzy boat steam engineers)
The Scotia, Scythia and Samaria were built later, to pretty much the same design, but had slightly larger engines, and about another 3/4 or a knot of speed. I remeber them being built over at Cammell Lairds (which seemed to take forever)

The Scotia was a little bit more special, as she was built with an Icebreaker bow, especially to allow her to do the Great Lakes service. I'm sure she got the title of 'Queen of the Great Lakes' one season for either being first in or last out one winter.
Cheers!
Marcus
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  #4  
Old 7th June 2005, 01:37
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Hi Marcus,
You've solved the mystery for me. She was on the Great Lakes service. I guess I can sleep at night now.

Incidentally the Passenger Boat folks may have been somewahat disdainful of us on the Mickey Mouse boats but that all seemed to change when they found out we had Double Diamond and Harp on tap in the Wardroom. They suddenly became very friendly towards us.

Thanks for your help.
Ray
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  #5  
Old 8th June 2005, 21:23
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Marcus Cardew Marcus Cardew is offline  
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Mickey Mouse Boats

Hi Ray,
When I was on the Media, I remember a couple of times meeting up with a Queen boat in Mid Atlantic.. The routine was always the same, in that they would swing in quite close to us, and swish by at 30 odd knots (to our 17.5), and the Bridge crowd would gracefully wave down at us....

When we got the ACL boats (Atlantic Causeway and Conveyor), someone noticed that our bridge wing was about 5 feet higher than the QE2 bridge wing, so we waited for the day when they would cross our path for the first time. As luck would have it, this eventually happened when the QE2 was leaving Cherbourg as the Causeway was heading in... Nice narrow channel, so we passed pretty close, but best of all visibility was down to about 1/4 of a mile, so we were ready for her when she loomed out of the murk, and we could THEN gracefully wave down at them.. They were definitely not ready for waving up at us.

Justice at Last!
Cheers!
Marcus
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  #6  
Old 8th June 2005, 22:18
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Nothing like a little intra-company rivalry.

Ray
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  #7  
Old 18th June 2005, 22:16
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Post Cunard cargo ships

Hi guys
A little more information. Only the last three were built by Cammell Laird. They were only chartered, as Cunard did want to buy more cargo liners ahead of the launch of ACL. The Scythia and Samaria were owned by the shipyard and were sold to T & J Harrison in 1969. Scotia was owned by United Dominions Leasing until she was sold to Neptune Orient Lines in 1970.
Media and Saxonia were from John Readheads, North Shields. 1963. Media was sold to Western Australian Coastal Shipping Commission in 1971 as the Beroona, went to Greek owners in 1979 as Palm Trader and became a CTL in Bandar Abbas after an engine room fire in 1983. Saxonia was lengthened by 80 feet by Swan Hunter in 1970 and emerged as Brocklebank's Maharonda. Sold to Singaporean owners in 1978 and traded in the Far East until she was scrapped in China in 1983.
Parthia and Ivernia were built in Dundee by Caledon and had similar initial careers as the Readhead pair. Parthia went to Australia in 1971 as Wambiri. She was sold to Greek owners in 1979 and scrapped in India 1984 after suffering engine failure off Socotra. Ivernia was lengthened and became Manipur in 1970, was sold to MSC as Philippa in 1977 and scrapped in 1985.
Good, hard working ships, whatever the Pazzy boat guys think.
Fred Henderson
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  #8  
Old 18th June 2005, 23:17
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Saw the Scotia off in Amsterdam to a crew flown in from singers. Got chased off with the 2nd steward to the airport and on to a "Dan Air" comet and back to Liverpool airport!!!!The sad thing was of course all the draft beer had to be disposed of into the dock as Neptune Orient Lines ran dry ships. Not like the "wardroom days". Does anyone remember Tommy Lacy the 2nd eng? all this happened during a cold winter as I was sent over as a junior to cover nights to keep the auxy boiler fired up to keep the ship and standby crew warm......john g
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  #9  
Old 22nd September 2005, 15:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fred henderson
Hi guys
The Scythia and Samaria were owned by the shipyard and were sold to T & J Harrison in 1969. Scotia was owned by United Dominions Leasing until she was sold to Neptune Orient Lines in 1970.Fred Henderson
Any available information on the final fate of those three?
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  #10  
Old 4th October 2005, 15:16
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Parthia

Quote:
Originally Posted by fred henderson
Hi guys
A little more information. Only the last three were built by Cammell Laird. They were only chartered, as Cunard did want to buy more cargo liners ahead of the launch of ACL. The Scythia and Samaria were owned by the shipyard and were sold to T & J Harrison in 1969. Scotia was owned by United Dominions Leasing until she was sold to Neptune Orient Lines in 1970.
Media and Saxonia were from John Readheads, North Shields. 1963. Media was sold to Western Australian Coastal Shipping Commission in 1971 as the Beroona, went to Greek owners in 1979 as Palm Trader and became a CTL in Bandar Abbas after an engine room fire in 1983. Saxonia was lengthened by 80 feet by Swan Hunter in 1970 and emerged as Brocklebank's Maharonda. Sold to Singaporean owners in 1978 and traded in the Far East until she was scrapped in China in 1983.
Parthia and Ivernia were built in Dundee by Caledon and had similar initial careers as the Readhead pair. Parthia went to Australia in 1971 as Wambiri. She was sold to Greek owners in 1979 and scrapped in India 1984 after suffering engine failure off Socotra. Ivernia was lengthened and became Manipur in 1970, was sold to MSC as Philippa in 1977 and scrapped in 1985.
Good, hard working ships, whatever the Pazzy boat guys think.
Fred Henderson
Fred ;
I sailed the Parthia from London to Singapore as 2 nd Eng when she was bought by the aussies. She was named the Staship 1 ( beam me up scotty ! ) for the run job .
I then flew to Japan to join the Mahsud ; when I got to my hotel and put on the TV to my shock there was on the news pictures of a typhoon in Singapore and the Staship was partilly beached .
She also as I recollect lost her rudder in mid atlantic 9 On the run job we read the old logs and got the full story . A message from the Parthia after wallowing for a few days before towing read " Spirits high but of of beer and backy .The QE 1 diverted to stand bye for a short time ( I think that was the only time a Queen diverted including war years ? perhaps some other members have information on that subject .
Regards Derek Roger
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  #11  
Old 4th October 2005, 17:46
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Sythia, Samaria and Scotia

Sythia became Harrison's Merchant and Samaria became Scholar in November 1969. Both were employed on Harrison's West India general cargo trade until January 1979, when they were laid-up at Leith.
Both were quickly sold and Merchant became Sisal Trader for Totness Shipping of Monrovia. In April 1984 she was under arrest at Mayotte Island Madagascar when she was caught up in a cyclone and driven ashore. She was refloated but did not trade again and was scrapped in Pakistan later in the year.
Scholar was sold to Manta Shipping of Liberia and renamed Steel Trader. In August 1980 she was trapped at Khorramshahr in the Shatt-el-Arab by the outbreak of the Iraq-Iran war. She was shelled and abandoned.
Scotia was sold to Neptune Orient Lines, Singapore in 1970 and was renamed Neptune Amber. They operated her until 1977 when she became Sri Kailash for Himalaya Shipping co, India. She was laid-up at Bombay in 1982 and scrapped in 1984.

Fred
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  #12  
Old 4th October 2005, 18:03
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Fred,
You are an absolute goldmine of information. It is really interesting and sometimes pretty sad to find out what eventually happened to ships with which you were familiar. Thanks for all the info.

Regards,
Ray
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  #13  
Old 23rd December 2007, 23:43
Mike England Mike England is offline  
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Scotia

I joined the Scotia as second mate in Cammel Lairds in the latter stage of her build. The captain was Reggie Venn. Scotia did not have an ice breaker bow but an ice strengthened bow. Scotia also had a bridge controlled main engine making it easier to manouvre especially whilst in the ice. As far as I knew the vessel was designed to trade to Montreal and Quebec all the year round.
I first joined Scotia on 12th December 1966 and stayed with her until December 1968. During this time we traded to Montreal and Quebec and did not do any trips up The Great Lakes.
She was a good ship and was exceptional in the ice which we encountered in and around the St Lawrence.
One voyage lasted longer than scheduled, we arrived in Montreal in December 67 having had a hard slog up the St Lawrence in quite thick ice. A week after our arrival the St Lawrence was closed to navigation due to the fact that it was completly blocked by thick ice. Ice breakers were brought in to clear this ice to prevent flooding in Montreal. We were stuck in Montreal for almost two months while the ice breakers cleared the block. The day the block was broken I was on the bridge and I suddenly saw the ice move and quickly realised that despite we had our anchor cables ashore nothing would keep us alongside. We were swept away ripping the bollards from the dock, our accomodation ladder acted as a fender between ourselves and the ship that was moored astern of us.The engineers did a fantastic job and we had main engines within 10 minutes of being swept away. Captain Venn was tremendous and calmly broke us free from the huge lump of ice that we were trapped and took us safely back to the berth. We sustained minor damage and returned to Liverpool on the 5th March 1968 two months late.
Hope you find this interestng
Mike England
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  #14  
Old 24th December 2007, 01:46
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Great story Mike .
The Mickey Mouse Boats were quite special . Only one I sailed on was Parthia ( Run job to Hong Kong ) although I saw her doing her measured mile while still a school kid ( from Tayport ; Fife )

Cheers Derek
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  #15  
Old 19th March 2008, 22:39
Mike England Mike England is offline  
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Pictures of Scotia

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derek Roger View Post
Great story Mike .
The Mickey Mouse Boats were quite special . Only one I sailed on was Parthia ( Run job to Hong Kong ) although I saw her doing her measured mile while still a school kid ( from Tayport ; Fife )

Cheers Derek

I was searching through some old photographs and came across these two of the Scotia. The Mersey pic was taken in December 1966, the other was taken early in 68. Hope you find them interesting.
I was lucky enough to have sailed on all the Mickey Mouse Ships and my last was as mate on the Samaria.
Cheers Mike England.
Scotia in Mersey 10001.JPGScotia St Lawrence 10001.JPG
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  #16  
Old 13th April 2008, 17:35
tony moorefield tony moorefield is offline  
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Engineering Cadet

Hi mike I was the engineering cadet on mv scotia when you sailed on her my nickname was flash (because i dashed everywhere) I remember captain Venn and the chief eng was Pat Cranston (the Laird) 2nd eng malcolm ? (known as malcolm mustard) 3rd eng was bob (chuckles) and electrician Kenny Muir or I think a scots lad called Jim and there was a 3rd officer ? nicknamed careless rapture .I have been looking in my discharge book but cant find any entries for the scotia i was beginning to think i had dreampt it all. I later joined cp ships and sailed on cp ambassador(formely Beaveroak) for 6 months but i cant remember which ship i went up great lakes on Detroit .Cleveland,Chicago, Milwaukee , we got hit by manchester liner who was coming up astern of us trying to free us from thick ice and other 1 got damaged in milwaukee but that time it was my trip off .
Had many fond memories of nights in wardroom with tennants lager and someone earlier asked about Tommy Lacy I sailed with him on scotia he was known as T.S Lacey (Twin Screw from his days on georgic and britannic) I remember Reggie Venn in New York watching weather man he christened Chalkie because of the way he drew isobars and arrows in white chalk over weather map. Now ive found this forum i will post some more of my memories
regards tony
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  #17  
Old 10th July 2008, 17:09
davej davej is offline  
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Scotia (Mike England)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike England View Post
I was searching through some old photographs and came across these two of the Scotia. The Mersey pic was taken in December 1966, the other was taken early in 68. Hope you find them interesting.
I was lucky enough to have sailed on all the Mickey Mouse Ships and my last was as mate on the Samaria.
Cheers Mike England.
Attachment 9531Attachment 9532
Hi Mike.

You may not remember me but I remember you well.

My name is Dave James and I was 2nd cook & baker on the Scotia from December 1966 to June 1969 (I was the singing baker).

I have a picture taken in the crew bar (The Ruptured Duck) during that time and I believe you are in that picture.

I shall try to dig it out and get it posted on the forum. (On this thread)

If oyu are inclined to, get in touch through the forum for a little reminiscence.

Hope to hear from you. All the best.

Dave James.
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  #18  
Old 18th August 2008, 16:05
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RO on Scotia in early years.

Hi Mike and Tony

I too sailed on the MV Scotia at the time you did Mike. I too sailed on her from the builders yard. I remember you well Mike ! I was Roger the radio officer.
I have quite a few photos of the Scotia including one of Reggie Venn on the bridge viewing our first iceberg !

Your story of Scotia in Montreal is interesting Mike. I remember when we sailed into Montreal the heavy lift ship "John Cabot" had fallen over on to the wharf due to a ballasting failure.

I must dig out my diary from that time and dig out more information. I always recorded noon position and arrival and departure from ports in it, so I still have all that information from my voyages.

I also sailed on a number of the other Cunard Freighters including Saxonia and Scythia. I remember the friendly rivalry about which ship would get to NewYork first after we all left Friday from the various UK ports - Liverpool, Glasgow or Southampton.

Later I worked for 17 years with the Australian Antarctic Division and sailed on many ice strengthed ships going to Antarctica - not as RO but as passenger to get to Antarctica as part of my work of supervising communications technical and operations staff in Antarctica.

All the best - I hope to hear more from you both.

Roger
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  #19  
Old 6th September 2008, 17:27
Mike England Mike England is offline  
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Photographs from the Scotia

Dear Shipmates,
Good to hear from Tony and Radioroger.Please find below a number of Photographs which were taken whilst I was on Board Scotia.
The picture of the poor horse on number 4 hatch is particularly sad. We were taking the horses to New York when one of them jumped over the half door and crashed onto the steel deck. We tried everything to get the horse back on its feet but it died on the deck and we had to bury it at sea.
On a brighter note can anybody put a name to all the guys in the photographs taken in the wardroom. Some I Know such as myself.Radioroger, Bob (chuckles) Ball, George Henderson and Malcolm 2nd Eng but the rest I have regrettably forgotton. Hope someone can help jog my failing memory.

All the best Mike England.
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Icebreakers St Lawrence.jpg (67.6 KB, 146 views)
File Type: jpg Party Montreal.jpg (75.9 KB, 210 views)
File Type: jpg Singsong.jpg (66.3 KB, 177 views)
File Type: jpg Solid Water.jpg (49.9 KB, 166 views)
File Type: jpg Undelivered Cargo.jpg (91.2 KB, 167 views)
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  #20  
Old 7th September 2008, 20:27
robert moon robert moon is offline  
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Hello to all,I was the bearded mechanic on and off the Scotia,spent most of my time on 12 to 4 watch with Bob ball (chuckles) I got told off by Tom Lacy for refring to him as such.The ship had a good company,many very good people,I have fond memories.
Good luck,Rob.
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  #21  
Old 8th September 2008, 00:54
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Was there not a chap who sailed on the Mickey mouse Boats called " The mad Monk " ?
Derek
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  #22  
Old 8th September 2008, 10:28
Nick Jones Nick Jones is offline  
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Derek,

I believe the "Mad Monk" was second engineer on the Manipur when we were on the Concordia charter. Geoff Hoskins or something like that, ex Baltic Lines Chief.
Cheers,
Nick Jones.
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  #23  
Old 8th September 2008, 16:36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nick Jones View Post
Derek,

I believe the "Mad Monk" was second engineer on the Manipur when we were on the Concordia charter. Geoff Hoskins or something like that, ex Baltic Lines Chief.
Cheers,
Nick Jones.
That sounds about right . I did not sail with him but I had a third engineer who had ( John Torr ) . Apparently this fellow used to go ashore in a monks habit in New York !

Derek
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  #24  
Old 8th September 2008, 17:06
robert moon robert moon is offline  
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Scotia and the cold

Quote:
Originally Posted by john g View Post
Saw the Scotia off in Amsterdam to a crew flown in from singers. Got chased off with the 2nd steward to the airport and on to a "Dan Air" comet and back to Liverpool airport!!!!The sad thing was of course all the draft beer had to be disposed of into the dock as Neptune Orient Lines ran dry ships. Not like the "wardroom days". Does anyone remember Tommy Lacy the 2nd eng? all this happened during a cold winter as I was sent over as a junior to cover nights to keep the auxy boiler fired up to keep the ship and standby crew warm......john g
Hi,I remember Tom Lacy very well,he was rather abrupt at times but had a heart of gold,I often wonder what happened to him.
How did you cope with those mean little steam boiler feed pumps when keeping the boiler going,I had nights of hell with them when on port watches in Montreal.If you found them ok then I did a good job so will give myself a pat on the back.Good luck,Rob.
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  #25  
Old 9th September 2008, 09:48
robert moon robert moon is offline  
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Flash

Quote:
Originally Posted by tony moorefield View Post
Hi mike I was the engineering cadet on mv scotia when you sailed on her my nickname was flash (because i dashed everywhere) I remember captain Venn and the chief eng was Pat Cranston (the Laird) 2nd eng malcolm ? (known as malcolm mustard) 3rd eng was bob (chuckles) and electrician Kenny Muir or I think a scots lad called Jim and there was a 3rd officer ? nicknamed careless rapture .I have been looking in my discharge book but cant find any entries for the scotia i was beginning to think i had dreampt it all. I later joined cp ships and sailed on cp ambassador(formely Beaveroak) for 6 months but i cant remember which ship i went up great lakes on Detroit .Cleveland,Chicago, Milwaukee , we got hit by manchester liner who was coming up astern of us trying to free us from thick ice and other 1 got damaged in milwaukee but that time it was my trip off .
Had many fond memories of nights in wardroom with tennants lager and someone earlier asked about Tommy Lacy I sailed with him on scotia he was known as T.S Lacey (Twin Screw from his days on georgic and britannic) I remember Reggie Venn in New York watching weather man he christened Chalkie because of the way he drew isobars and arrows in white chalk over weather map. Now ive found this forum i will post some more of my memories
regards tony
I remember you flash,you were the ex helsby grammar school boy from Runcorn,if my wonderful memory is still as good ?
good luck,Rob.
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