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  #251  
Old 12th October 2012, 10:46
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Grainger View Post
Another page without an Engineer from the days of the GTV's saying anything, someday I will try to correct some of the rubbish, but please along with Ryan O'Hare was James G Holburn ( not Jimmy Holden ). James G was among other things in Denholm's, in charge of cadets when I was interviewed and offered an "Indentured Apprenticeship" by him in 1965. Google the man and it tells you his input to Marine Engineering ! !
Harry, Of course Holburn my apologies (he had virtully left the office by the time I came ashore - saw him occasionally in Transport Research I think). Ryan, of course, cannot answer for himself but you shouldn't do yourself down either. I thought you were going to sail over here for a beer. David V

Last edited by Varley; 12th October 2012 at 10:49..
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  #252  
Old 12th October 2012, 11:29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Grainger View Post
Another page without an Engineer from the days of the GTV's saying anything, someday I will try to correct some of the rubbish, but please along with Ryan O'Hare was James G Holburn ( not Jimmy Holden ). James G was among other things in Denholm's, in charge of cadets when I was interviewed and offered an "Indentured Apprenticeship" by him in 1965. Google the man and it tells you his input to Marine Engineering ! !
Harry
Quite agree with you it is time we had an input from the Engineers I would love to hear some of their stories there were some characters amongst them. Not unlike yourself Harry I always got the blame for the parties you started !!!!!!!!
Tom
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  #253  
Old 12th October 2012, 18:35
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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What's he moaning about ?. If engineers don't contribute to the thread , means
they don't have a lot to say .
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  #254  
Old 12th October 2012, 19:15
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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Originally Posted by mullethunt View Post
I recall these ships having bow thrusters. Often when coming into Charleston one main or thruster or one main and thruster were not operational thus requiring escort to navigate the many turns to berth.
They had one bow thruster. Electrically driven (Wound rotor ? although required for starting not for contol which was variable pitch) if I have any more details I'll post them.
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  #255  
Old 12th October 2012, 23:19
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Ray,

Were you on the GM when she grounded off Belieze?

Neil B Morrison was 2nd Mate.

Stephen
No Stephen, I was on her in 74 and we traded between the Mediterranean, NOLA, Vera Cruz and Tampico.
Off topic for this thread but some more details here.
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  #256  
Old 12th October 2012, 23:42
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Originally Posted by mullethunt View Post
I recall these ships having bow thrusters. Often when coming into Charleston one main or thruster or one main and thruster were not operational thus requiring escort to navigate the many turns to berth.
They had, as Varley says, one bowthruster of about 1000 hp. They were often out of action due to mechanical failure of some kind, and one actually fell off on passage.

In addition Seatrain chose to put riding squads on board to modify the demisters on one engine at a time whilst coasting between New York and Charleston.

It was therefore quite common to arrive in Charleston with one engine and (maybe) a bow thruster.

There was one quite tight turn to starboard just after the bridge, and trying to turn to starboard with just the port engine, a single centre line rudder and a very large unpowered starboard cp propeller just in front of it ruining the flow could be ..... tricky.

Then one of them went aground and was stuck for several hours, confining a small fleet of nuclear subs and other naval vessels to their berths until she could be refloated.

The manure was now well and truly in the fan and questions were asked very far up the chain in the US government.

Consequently any Euro boat arriving with less than 2 out of 3 'propellers' was obliged to take a tug.

When the work on the demisters was finished it all went back to normal, they had two engines and since the bow thrusters were ineffective at anything over a couple of knots, it didn't matter over much whether it was available or not.

Also by that time the pilots had learned to ignore the fact that they had two props and handle them like a conventional single screw/single rudder ship.
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  #257  
Old 13th October 2012, 10:59
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Roddy, One engine and, every now and again, the Paxman? Not much electrickery for a healthy 736KW thruster anyway and might even have been an interlock(would have to have been in the thruster controls, the drawings for which I didn't 'inherit' and sadly memory now increasingly more write-only). David V

(Ridiculous to still have Hull 420's MSB drawing let alone to have it laid out at panel 4!)
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  #258  
Old 13th October 2012, 23:25
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Originally Posted by Varley View Post
Roddy, One engine and, every now and again, the Paxman? Not much electrickery for a healthy 736KW thruster anyway and might even have been an interlock(would have to have been in the thruster controls, the drawings for which I didn't 'inherit' and sadly memory now increasingly more write-only). David V

(Ridiculous to still have Hull 420's MSB drawing let alone to have it laid out at panel 4!)
True, but with one shaft alternator running with the diesel, there would then be enough?

But as I said, the thruster was pretty useless unless you were all but stopped, and we hadn't been taught then that they were much more effective when the ship was moving astern.

They were a big help in locks - Liverpool for example, and also for 'springing' the stern off on sailing.

Yard Nos. 419/420 Asialiner and Asiafreighter?
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  #259  
Old 14th October 2012, 10:54
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True, but with one shaft alternator running with the diesel, there would then be enough?

Yard Nos. 419/420 Asialiner and Asiafreighter?
I'm sure. SG 1 MW, Paxman 1.2 MW - can't remember plant(container/deck) load (may even have a load balance somewhere - sad, sad, sad) but easily enough for thruster.

I do remember one Chief preferring to do standby with the preferences already tripped if Paxman unavailable - can't remember who (but maybe this was also the time with John Benn when we had one SG tacho 'overidden' as well).

420's drawing also annotated G T S 'EURO FREIGHTER' - the only other 'evidential' reference I might have is AEG Shaft Generator customer reference list from Bernhard Schulte (Johann Schulte and Wilhelm Schulte have SGs of same principle - remakable how the control electronics had 'shrunk' in between the two generations apart from that only the DC link short circuit protection was unrecognisable - here it is the technique/skill base that had advanced. In engineering terms the same could have been done in the 70's and with the same elegance and capital saving). Two or three net references also tie 420 to Eurofreighter.

Last edited by Varley; 14th October 2012 at 11:00..
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  #260  
Old 14th October 2012, 19:55
muldonaich muldonaich is offline  
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the paxman gennie was a piece of crap on the seatrain ships i remember it bursting into flames on the eurofreighter just of the berth in new york engineroom full of co2 what a mess tugs holding us in mid river kev.
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  #261  
Old 14th October 2012, 20:44
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I confirm what Roddy says the bow thruster was pretty useless and vey unreliable you could never ever depend on it.
Both Charleston at the bridge and Wilmington NC could be very scary found using the escort tug on the shoulder pretty effective in these ports. As long as you had both engines the the ships were pretty manoeuvrable and could be a joy to handle,it was a different ball game after Big Bertha was fitted at slow speeds the larger prop put a bit of a drag on the ship and you had to constantly compensate for this when manoeuvring
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  #262  
Old 14th October 2012, 21:44
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Originally Posted by muldonaich View Post
the paxman gennie was a piece of crap on the seatrain ships i remember it bursting into flames on the eurofreighter just of the berth in new york engineroom full of co2 what a mess tugs holding us in mid river kev.
I remember that quite well, we were berthed waiting to leave on another - perhaps Asiafreighter.

To be picky, though it was doubtless a Paxman, did the label not say English Electric?

From memory, it didn't quite burst into flames, but blew an exhaust gasket, causing it to blow dense smoke into the Engine Room.

The Chief (Alec Young?) opened the Engine Room door, saw the extent of the smoke, concluded they could not get in, shut down the diesel I suppose, and released the CO2.

However, both main engines were kept running as usual, and the shaft gennies were on line, so she berthed quite normally as soon as we sailed.

I remember it was a public holiday weekend, maybe Easter. Even before we sailed, Nick Constantis was rounding up men and refilling facilities, ready to get the 96? bottles off and recharged.

From what we heard he was entirely successful and she sailed on time - bottles out, ashore, refilled, refitted all in about 24 hours. American can do at its best!

Re the Diesel Alternators, at first they used to run them during Standbyes, but because the shaft generators were on too they were on very light load and rattling themselves to bits.

The procedure was then modified and they were test started before End of Passage and then shut down ready for action if required, before being put on line at FWE.

That is how I remember it anyway - Particulars Believed Correct But Not Guaranteed!
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  #263  
Old 14th October 2012, 22:15
muldonaich muldonaich is offline  
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hi roddie it was the fuel pipe that fractured and sprayed on to the exhaust pipeand burst into flames but im sure it was a paxman engine remember alec very well good guy kev.
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  #264  
Old 15th October 2012, 09:52
Harry Grainger Harry Grainger is offline  
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Sorry K they were labelled English Electric according to my notes. As far as I know and I stand to be corrected, they were built in same factory, but Paxman's as fitted to Naess Parkgate etc. were for for marine use and English Electric nameplate were for use in diesel trains, how the GTV's got railway ones don't know but maybe that is why they were nightmares
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  #265  
Old 15th October 2012, 10:31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Grainger View Post
Sorry K they were labelled English Electric according to my notes. As far as I know and I stand to be corrected, they were built in same factory, but Paxman's as fitted to Naess Parkgate etc. were for for marine use and English Electric nameplate were for use in diesel trains, how the GTV's got railway ones don't know but maybe that is why they were nightmares
I read a newspaper article not that long ago. We understood (didn't we?) that their record on BR was good (a track record, sorry) and that we were misusing them in some way. Evidently the railways were being told exactly the same thing in reverse and that they were no more reliable on wheels than when on plates "They have a perfectly good reputation at sea it's something you are doing with them".
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  #266  
Old 15th October 2012, 11:54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harry Grainger View Post
Sorry K they were labelled English Electric according to my notes. As far as I know and I stand to be corrected, they were built in same factory, but Paxman's as fitted to Naess Parkgate etc. were for for marine use and English Electric nameplate were for use in diesel trains...
The modernisation of the UK's railways, with the ending of steam locomotion, created a market for suitably-size diesel engines. Paxman had a range of engines that could be developed for that market and they worked closely with English Electric until they were absorbed by the larger group in 1965. Not too long afterwards, both were subsequently subsumed into Arnold Weinstock's GEC empire.
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  #267  
Old 15th October 2012, 19:05
muldonaich muldonaich is offline  
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Originally Posted by Ron Stringer View Post
The modernisation of the UK's railways, with the ending of steam locomotion, created a market for suitably-size diesel engines. Paxman had a range of engines that could be developed for that market and they worked closely with English Electric until they were absorbed by the larger group in 1965. Not too long afterwards, both were subsequently subsumed into Arnold Weinstock's GEC empire.
i dont know who built them but it was paxman engineers two of them flew out to carry out tests and repairs if my memory serves me right they found some of the engine bed bolts had sheared as well brgds kev.
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  #268  
Old 16th October 2012, 02:00
Malky Glaister Malky Glaister is offline  
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No Paxman built engine fitted in a locomotive was a success on British Railways.
They were all diabolical and none survived more than ten years.

However.The Valenta engine fitted into the HST power cars was undoubtedly highly successful. They have almost all been replaced by a modern MTU machine.

English Electrics on the other hand were highly successful. Class 40s and 50s a testament to this and also the smaller 20s still in use today fifty years old. There is still a small army of shunters with EE engines fitted.

regards

Malky
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  #269  
Old 22nd February 2013, 23:55
Harry Grainger Harry Grainger is offline  
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BBC 4 The Voice of Frank Sinatra - started his musical life in the " Hoboken Four" Sorry I'm back to that Diner !
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  #270  
Old 15th January 2014, 17:00
Dick S Dick S is offline  
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With ref to bow thrusters. I did a year 3/mate Asialiner/Asiafrieihter can rember having to phone down engine room when about to operate thrusters on a river passage. Also a few years later on another vessel - Broompark I think - I was talking to the Savanah pilot about this and he said that after the engine refurbishment they were not as good as manouovering round the river's bends as before.

Dick
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  #271  
Old 1st February 2014, 19:01
xdenholm xdenholm is offline  
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rustons were notorious for breaking rockers and popping thro cast ally rocker covers ,sailed with many usually dg sets but also ME Thro gear box with variable pitch the gtv ,s had only 1 dg with shaft alternators i joined gtv eurofreigher in greenock the day elvis died
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  #272  
Old 13th March 2018, 17:48
P.Arnold P.Arnold is offline
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Originally Posted by Tom S View Post
What was the name of the 2nd Mate we had on the Container Ships who was studying for his BSC and his thesis was on raindrops? I remember he used to appear everytime it rained and caught raindrops measured the size and density of them. I believe he went on to do a Phd and became a lecturer at Southampton Uni?
TomS
Rather late in making the effort. Trawling through threads before I joined SN, with nothing else to do, but don’t tell the wife.

It may have been Chris Walmsley from the Wirral, he was also very good at drawing with chalks. I didn’t know about the rain drops but do recall his mentioning university.

I was relieving ECO on all four GTVs and was on the Eurofreighter for the duration of the 76 drydocking in Falmouth and the BFO system.

I remember Ronnie Keir, Rab Fraser and Gerry Morrison. I also recall several T shirts emblazoned with a big red tongue with the statement
“BFO Sucks”

Being 1976 (the so called last hot summer) the Mr Whippy ice cream van was parked on the road up to the castle. We were one of the star attractions in Falmouth at the time.

The Railway pub outside the dock gate saw us on several occasions.

As they say, you could write a book.

Peter
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  #273  
Old 24th March 2018, 22:46
George Porteous George Porteous is offline
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Gas turbine container ships

Whilst browsing, noticed a post from my old ship mate Pete Arnold about the gas turbine container ships. I was wondering if anyone came across David W. Hogg ( from Edinburgh) who I believe was chief engineer then super on these ships? What did you guys think of him? I await the replies with interest.
Cheers George Porteous
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  #274  
Old 25th March 2018, 00:47
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Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
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Originally Posted by P.Arnold View Post
Rather late in making the effort. Trawling through threads before I joined SN, with nothing else to do, but don’t tell the wife.

It may have been Chris Walmsley from the Wirral, he was also very good at drawing with chalks. I didn’t know about the rain drops but do recall his mentioning university.

I was relieving ECO on all four GTVs and was on the Eurofreighter for the duration of the 76 drydocking in Falmouth and the BFO system.

I remember Ronnie Keir, Rab Fraser and Gerry Morrison. I also recall several T shirts emblazoned with a big red tongue with the statement
“BFO Sucks”

Being 1976 (the so called last hot summer) the Mr Whippy ice cream van was parked on the road up to the castle. We were one of the star attractions in Falmouth at the time.

The Railway pub outside the dock gate saw us on several occasions.

As they say, you could write a book.

Peter

Stuart Bearne 2nd Mate, Euroliner, about Sept 1972. I remember he had done a degree or similar.

Stephen
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