Kiwis to be pals again! - Ships Nostalgia
07:43

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Kiwis to be pals again!

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 24th May 2018, 17:24
DickGraham DickGraham is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1972 - 1980
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
Posts: 39
Red face Kiwis to be pals again!

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-44210833
Thank goodness NZ are going to be friends with us again after Brexshit so hopefully we won't starve!
However........... there is no British Merchant Navy as there was pre '73 so it will be foreign ship owners who are going to profit from it - no income whatsoever from shipping for the UK govt. - that will be costly!
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 24th May 2018, 18:51
Erimus's Avatar
Erimus Erimus is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Maritime Enthusiast
Department: Office / Administration
Active: 1958 - 2010
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 3,867
Even in 1973 there were very few reefer type vessels owned by fully UK companies and only Blue Star and Shaw Savill had container vessels actually operating out of NZ then.....this is prior to ACT and OCL coming out as combined carriers.....Only the German Columbus Line took a hard line on building some container vessels for that trade......they then became Hamburg Sud......a long story.

Silence of the lambs perhaps!

geoff
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 24th May 2018, 23:06
Samsette's Avatar
Samsette Samsette is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,980
Still pals with Canada, trusting our shipyards with an extensive, one year, refit to two of their frigates. One is already here in Esquimalt and I guess the other will arrive after completion of the first job.

It does seem like a long way to go for a refit but, I suppose it was tendered out and our yard won.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 25th May 2018, 04:03
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 18,357
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erimus View Post
Even in 1973 there were very few reefer type vessels owned by fully UK companies and only Blue Star and Shaw Savill had container vessels actually operating out of NZ then.....this is prior to ACT and OCL coming out as combined carriers.....Only the German Columbus Line took a hard line on building some container vessels for that trade......they then became Hamburg Sud......a long story.

Silence of the lambs perhaps!

geoff
The longest lasting picket line ever was that by the Seamen's Union of Australia outside the Columbus Line offices in Brisbane. Tried to Google it to find out how long it lasted but somehow got diverted to the Victoria's Secret website.

John T
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 25th May 2018, 05:54
spongebob's Avatar
spongebob spongebob is online now
Spongebob
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1957 - 1961
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,848
There was a court case in the US a few days ago whereby the parents of a 30 year old single male sought to have their son evicted from their home as he had made no cash or effort contributions over the years.
The judge found in favour of the parents.
Perhaps this was how New Zealand felt in the 1970's as our mother country gave us the bums rush when she cuddled up to a new man called EU.
The difference to that son's situation is that we had been an obedient and contributing member of the British Empire through two world wars and a huge focus of perhaps thousands of British Merchant Navy ships , NZShipping, Port Line, SS&A, Federal Lines , Blue Star, and others that had plied the dangerous seas to provide all possible sustenance to the Old Dart in those times of need.
Without wanting to over dramatise this situation I can say that I was a close by observer of the effects this British action had on our communities as I did business with Dairy processors , Freezing Works, and other export orientated NZ Companies that had modelled their production and expansions on the ongoing demands of Britain.
Dairy farmers poised increasing their herds and production, freezing works reduced activity, some shut down, and our Apple and Pear producers poised their plantings and all were angst about the ways and means of pending future British market allotments.
The BBC news article attached to post#1 pretty must describes the general public feelings .
Luckily a free trade agreement with Australia gave some relief but a lot of hard negotiation that gave us trade toe holds with Japan , China and other Asian countries became our saviour and these agreements have blossomed as our products won favour in those regions to reach the present day levels that see us now firmly established .
An announcement a few days ago from both France and Germany that the EU is prepared to negotiate new trade agreements with both NZ and Australia and beyond the existing restrictive ones seems to be a possible slight to Britain as she prepares to leave the EU and perhaps try to reconnect with the long lost Commonwealth relatives .
12000 plus miles to steam and two or three Oceans to cross makes it improbable that the past shipping routes could become viable again and anyway the likes of Merck or Cisco are no doubt there ready to pounce.

Bob
__________________
spongebob,

Last edited by spongebob; 25th May 2018 at 05:58..
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 25th May 2018, 08:45
Somerton Somerton is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
My location
Posts: 354
Bob , I completely agree with your sentiments . It was a bad day for the UK when we went into the EEC as it was then . I sailed with Port Line in the1950/60 ,s and have many happy memories of the long stays we had in both Australia and New Zealand . I just look forward to the day when we are clear of the EU . No offence to our fellow SN members who reside there . Alex .
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 1st June 2018, 14:27
GazzaW GazzaW is offline  
Member
Organisation: Maritime Enthusiast
Active: 1964 - Present
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 7
I'm afraid that New Zealand has moved on since the 70s. We can no longer even identify our exports to the UK as they are lumped into the EU figures and the EU is only third on the list of our trading partners behind China and Australia. I doubt the UK is even in the top ten. Our kids are limited to a grudging two year stay by UK Immigration for their working holidays which has led to a gradual erosion of traditional ties. No Kiwi under the age of forty can recall the pre-EU era. It will take a lot of work to rebuild a close relationship.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 2nd June 2018, 15:02
Pat McCardle's Avatar
Pat McCardle Pat McCardle is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 6,175
Captain Charles Upham V.C.& Bar knew what would happen when Britain sold our Commonwealth out. I'll be visiting New Zealand again from February 2019 to keep the ties with the Kiwi's friendly.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 2nd June 2018, 20:55
barrypriddis's Avatar
barrypriddis barrypriddis is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
My location
Posts: 2,264
UK has a lot to do to regain any sort of trust from commonwealth countries after we shamefully abandoned them.
__________________
Barry

There's nothing wrong with going nowhere slowly, but I want to go nowhere fast.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 2nd June 2018, 21:49
ART6's Avatar
ART6 ART6 is offline   SN Supporter
Super Moderator
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1958 - 1970
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,425
Quote:
Originally Posted by barrypriddis View Post
UK has a lot to do to regain any sort of trust from commonwealth countries after we shamefully abandoned them.
I have always felt that the Edward Heath abandonment of the Commonwealth countries was one of the most shameful acts ever by any British government, particularly when all of those countries rallied round without hesitation at times of Britain's greatest need and at vast cost to themselves in lives and money.
Now the British people have finally said "Enough of the EU and it's bureaucracy." and the doom mongers are forecasting the destruction of the British economy given that they will be leaving a massive trading bloc of 500m people and 27 countries. Sounds bad, doesn't it? But the British Commonwealth of Nations is 2.3bn people and 53 countries, and the wasteful, autocratic, corrupt EU begins to seem small beer in comparison.
Time perhaps then to start rebuilding trust with those 53 countries and, perhaps, seek to create a British Commonwealth free trade area (CoFeTA or similar)? If that could be established Britain might even need a merchant navy again!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 3rd June 2018, 00:08
spongebob's Avatar
spongebob spongebob is online now
Spongebob
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1957 - 1961
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,848
This takes me back to 1998 when we were staying in Chipping Camden at the end of a 3 month European holiday and while having a pint in the Nine Bells pub I spied a man wearing a Speights Brewery (Dunedin) badged Tee shirt.
I suggested that he was a long way from home but it turned out that his English raised daughter had married a Kiwi and now lived in Dunedin hence the shirt.
We finished up having a pub meal with our partners and the subject of Britain's desertion of NZ was aired by me.
He turned out to be an early retired merchant banker who lived locally and was very pro the EEC with arguments that I could not match . He was also up to date with the NZ desertion , had witnessed the country's economic recovery during his recent visit there and his almost verbatim words to me were something like-
" it was a harsh ungrateful action by Britain but mark my words you have the products, the protein sources , the fruit and wool and timber that the whole world wants and in the long run you will be better off"
That is what has happened , we have sound trade ties with Australia and the huge mass of Asia , too many perhaps as the foreign investment pools in to our primary industries and other activities.
Having said that , if Britain was to ask us to increase trade we would bend over backwards to help who we still regard as the mother country.

Bob
__________________
spongebob,
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 3rd June 2018, 05:49
Freo Freo is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1965 - 1975
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 217
"who we still regard as the mother country." Don't think I would like a mother like that!
__________________
Prune juice shall set you free
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 3rd June 2018, 06:30
spongebob's Avatar
spongebob spongebob is online now
Spongebob
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1957 - 1961
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,848
Well Freo she might have showed traits of being an old ***** by selling herself to the seemingly best offer at the time but there is always a glimmer of love in the hearts of her children no matter what she has done.

Bob
__________________
spongebob,
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 4th June 2018, 10:57
Nichad Nichad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
Smile

Hello Gents, new to the ship, so first post on topic of interest.

Surprised to hear that NZlander's have a hankering to reconnect with the 'motherland'. Surely a sentiment not held by all, much as Brexit is no more than a mixed message (at best 52% of those that bothered to vote, supported it, at the time) in the UK?

How much of NZ's population would you estimate still have a consideration of the UK as 'home' or 'motherland'? Or, perhaps it is easier stating those that see us 'falling out' (it's hardly controlled) of the EU as positive for ties, whether as a commercial opportunity, or nostalgia?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 5th June 2018, 10:10
barrypriddis's Avatar
barrypriddis barrypriddis is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
My location
Posts: 2,264
I am increasingly exasperated by the constant wingeing of remainer voters in the UK who go on about the fact that the majority for leaving the EU was only 52%.
In the 1979 devolution vote the turn out in Wales was 50.1% of the electorate, with 50.3% of those voting for devolution -a majority of 6721. This was hailed as a great victory by Tony Blair and Ron (moment of madness) Davies.
If the welsh devolution result was a great victory, then the No vote over Europe was an even greater victory!
Democracy is about government of the people, for the people, by the people. UK voted out. That is democracy and woe betide those who seek to change that.
Regarding NZ, im not too sure that if I were a Kiwi I would ever trust the UK again.
__________________
Barry

There's nothing wrong with going nowhere slowly, but I want to go nowhere fast.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 5th June 2018, 10:44
garry Norton garry Norton is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 228
As a kiwi living in the UK I do not have a high opinion of the UK government but the people I find very good, the government both local and federal I find is made up of people who are not willing to listen and can not get away from party dogma.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 5th June 2018, 19:02
Nichad Nichad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by barrypriddis View Post
I am increasingly exasperated by the constant wingeing of remainer voters in the UK who go on about the fact that the majority for leaving the EU was only 52%.
In the 1979 devolution vote the turn out in Wales was 50.1% of the electorate, with 50.3% of those voting for devolution -a majority of 6721. This was hailed as a great victory by Tony Blair and Ron (moment of madness) Davies.
If the welsh devolution result was a great victory, then the No vote over Europe was an even greater victory!
Democracy is about government of the people, for the people, by the people. UK voted out. That is democracy and woe betide those who seek to change that.
Regarding NZ, im not too sure that if I were a Kiwi I would ever trust the UK again.
Britain was ever perfidious, it is the way with Empire, why should it have changed because some Eton school boys find Brexit palatable?

However, whilst I might defer to a view that democracy represents the will of the people (if the people were sufficiently enfranchised by it) I am sure there was more than the will of the people at play in Brexit, whatever you find of the need to dismiss an alternative view.

Surely, any course of democratic action permits of the right to contest not only its validity, but its right...if not Barry why else 'freedom of speech'. Or must we all Kow tau to the might (if not right) of a singluar victory.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 5th June 2018, 20:55
barrypriddis's Avatar
barrypriddis barrypriddis is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
My location
Posts: 2,264
Democracy is fine providing it agrees with my opinion. Long live be democracy!
__________________
Barry

There's nothing wrong with going nowhere slowly, but I want to go nowhere fast.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 5th June 2018, 21:35
5036's Avatar
5036 5036 is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,065
New Zealand. Practical and forgiving with an eye on the big game.
The UK can spread her trade worldwide rather than being shafted by the EU. an opportunity to excel.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 5th June 2018, 23:18
Nichad Nichad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
Smile

Quote:
Originally Posted by nav View Post
New Zealand. Practical and forgiving with an eye on the big game.
The UK can spread her trade worldwide rather than being shafted by the EU. an opportunity to excel.
What goods might that be, that we would be 'trading in', I wonder?

Such a shame, were we to find anything other than military hardware to export, that we don't seem to have a merchantile marine to send it in.

We can never surely never have enough sheep skin, lamb chops and butter...but most of all 'good will' travelling in the other direction...now just how do we go about paying for it?

Excel, now would that be the computer program, or that lost attribute/thing we did a very, very, long time ago?
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 6th June 2018, 03:41
5036's Avatar
5036 5036 is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nichad View Post
What goods might that be, that we would be 'trading in', I wonder?

Such a shame, were we to find anything other than military hardware to export, that we don't seem to have a merchantile marine to send it in.

We can never surely never have enough sheep skin, lamb chops and butter...but most of all 'good will' travelling in the other direction...now just how do we go about paying for it?

Excel, now would that be the computer program, or that lost attribute/thing we did a very, very, long time ago?
My apologies for being positive and optimistic.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 6th June 2018, 09:11
Ron Stringer's Avatar
Ron Stringer Ron Stringer is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1960 - 1966
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
My location
Posts: 6,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by nav View Post
My apologies for being positive and optimistic.
Or should that be better described as "wishful thinking"?

Wolverhampton Wanderers used to be a team to be recognised in the 1950s and '60s. They still can field 11 players, just the same as Real Madrid, so next season they have an excellent chance of beating Real Madrid to win the European Champions League!

However 'positive and optimistic' their supporters may be, there is such a thing as realism, which requires an assessment of the available skills, resources, the strength of the competition and the regulatory climate that would have to change to make their dream come true.

No harm in dreaming when it comes to being a football fan but you shouldn't apply the same approach when it comes to running a country.
__________________
Ron
_____________________________________________

Never regret growing older. It is a privilege denied to many. Don't worry about old age - it doesn't last.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 6th June 2018, 09:32
Nichad Nichad is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 7
Nice analogy.

Dreams... you've got to love them.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 6th June 2018, 09:40
5036's Avatar
5036 5036 is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron Stringer View Post
Or should that be better described as "wishful thinking"?

Wolverhampton Wanderers used to be a team to be recognised in the 1950s and '60s. They still can field 11 players, just the same as Real Madrid, so next season they have an excellent chance of beating Real Madrid to win the European Champions League!

However 'positive and optimistic' their supporters may be, there is such a thing as realism, which requires an assessment of the available skills, resources, the strength of the competition and the regulatory climate that would have to change to make their dream come true.

No harm in dreaming when it comes to being a football fan but you shouldn't apply the same approach when it comes to running a country.
Glass half full or half empty Ron?

Doesn't matter to me, a new drink still needs to be ordered!
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 8th June 2018, 15:44
ART6's Avatar
ART6 ART6 is offline   SN Supporter
Super Moderator
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1958 - 1970
 
Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 3,425
Whether or not the Commonwealth countries will forgive Britain for abandoning them is not the point in my view, although they are all adult democracies and always pragmatic so I can't believe that they would sulk and refuse to trade with the UK. The main objection to the EU is, for me, the insistence that only the EU can negotiate trade deals for it's members, and that governments must not be allowed to financially support indigenous industries, although the French and Italians have been doing that for years.

Maybe post-Brexit the UK will once again be able to invest in its manufacturing industries. Maybe we will once again see British shipyards building ships for the resurgent British merchant navy in competition with Fincantieri, and even cars and trucks British built boarding those ships for export all over the world. All it takes is a far-sighted, highly skilled government with a plan for industry, and the UK could once again become the engineer for the world.

The only obstacle to this pipe dream is my final observation above, since I struggle to guess where one of those might be found after so many years of the crass incompetence that almost seems to have been implanted in the political genes.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Old pals Markfenlon Looking for Old Shipmates 2 7th January 2013 17:31
old bp pals 80-82 BAIRDY22 Say Hello 4 1st August 2010 02:23
old pals of the 60s wilkawilka Looking for Old Shipmates 2 27th January 2010 15:39
Old 'Vindi' pals. Terry Smith Looking for Old Shipmates 1 22nd December 2008 11:48
Old Pals terval Say Hello 9 29th November 2006 23:28



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.