Crawford and Medomsly Lines House Flags - Ships Nostalgia
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Crawford and Medomsly Lines House Flags

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  #1  
Old 11th May 2008, 12:19
averheijden's Avatar
averheijden averheijden is offline  
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Crawford and Medomsly Lines House Flags

L.S,

I am looking after the house flags of 2 British Shipping Companies namely
* Crawford Shipping Cie, London England.
* Medomsly Steam Shipping Cie, London, England

Note: Both Companies were related to the Dutch Cie "Van Ommeren" at Rotterdam.

regards
Alfons
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  #2  
Old 11th May 2008, 14:31
K urgess K urgess is offline
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I moved your post to its own thread, Alfons.
It may help give a better response.
Regards
Kris
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  #3  
Old 12th May 2008, 04:55
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If it is any help the funnel markings of the Medomsley Shipping company were a red band on a black funnel. on this red band was a six pointed white star surrounded by a white circle.
Source; Travels of the Tramps, volume 111 by N L Middlemiss, cover illustration.
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  #4  
Old 12th May 2008, 11:39
K urgess K urgess is offline
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I agree with Mac about Medomsley funnels but can't find the house flag.
The only Crawford I can find is in Talbot-Booth's Merchant Ships of 1942.
The Crawford listed is a Glasgow company.
The house flag is a large blue "C" in the middle of a white ground and the funnel is black with two narrow blue bands.
Regards
Kris
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  #5  
Old 12th May 2008, 21:45
Dave Edge Dave Edge is offline
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Alfons,
It appears both companies used the Van Ommeren houseflag of the VO symbol on a white diamond over two horizontal white bands on a green ground.
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  #6  
Old 13th May 2008, 00:08
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Bit of research with the help of Stan Mayes.
There are two house flags attached.
Ships called "Langlee" belonged to Medomsley managed by F. Carrick according to Talbot Booth.

This is old data and I have no idea what happened after 1945.

Cheers
Kris
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Stan Funnels 1320A.jpg (15.9 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg Stan Funnels 1320B.jpg (15.9 KB, 30 views)
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  #7  
Old 13th May 2008, 11:18
Dave Edge Dave Edge is offline
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Quite by chance while looking up something else I came across an item by my old friend Louis Loughran, the guru of flags and funnels, describing the flag and funnel that Kris has posted - the right hand one. Medomsley was managed by Carrick and Company and used the colours at right. A. Crawford, whose colours are at left, was a Glasgow tramp ship company, also known as Vale Steam Ship Company, and had nothing to do with Medomsley as far as I know.
Louis mentions in his article - Marine News, August 1970 - that 'the company has had a varied catalogue of houseflags and funnel marks through the years' so I suspect we may only be scratching the surface with this company so far.
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  #8  
Old 13th May 2008, 15:40
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Sorry, Dave, a few crossed wires.
The Crawford houseflag was to show the first company Alfons asked about and I'm sorry if it looked as if I thought the two were related.
The Carrick houseflag was the only one I could find for Medomsley.
As you say two unconnected companies but neither of them from London as suggested by Alfons.
It does sound as if they changed owners/managers a few times.

Cheers
Kris
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  #9  
Old 13th May 2008, 17:01
Roger Jordan Roger Jordan is offline  
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Crawford and Medomsley houseflags

The following might be of interest.

MEDOMSLEY STEAMSHIP CO LTD (formed 1906)
Managed until 1942 by F Carrick & Co Ltd, Newcastle
Carrick was voluntarily liquidated and re-constituted in 1942.

CRAWFORD SHIPPING CO LTD (formed 1927)
Managed and beneficially owned until 1942 by Andrew Crawford & Co Ltd, Glasgow
Andrew Crawford & Co Ltd was temporarily out of shipowning/management after losing its then last remaining vessel in 1941, but it returned to shipowning in 1945-46. It was not involved with Crawford Shipping Co Ltd after 1942.

The common link with these two companies came about in 1942 when management was taken over by HG Mann, who was the boss of Buries Markes Ltd, both with offices at 2-3 Crosby Square, Bishopsgate, London EC3.
In 1945, Crawford Shipping Co Ltd bought the steamer EMPIRE FLAME, which was renamed DUNKERY BEACON, and in 1946 Medomsley Steamship Co Ltd bought EMPIRE GALE, renamed LANGLEEGALE. The latter carried on the Medomsley naming style of Langlee----. The two 1929-built Medomsley steamers LANGLEECRAG and LANGLEETARN were taken over with the company for management by Mann in 1942.

Things get a bit complicated after the war, but it is reasonable to assume that Crawford Shipping and Medomsley were under the wing of Buries Markes, and if not subsidiaries, almost certainly “associated companies”. These all had the same address and telephone number. HG Mann and AF Blair were directors of all three companies, and those two gentlemen together with FA Bell, were directors of Crawford and Medomsley. That was how things stood in 1946. In 1947 they were joined by Mr Phs van Ommeren, a managing director of Van Ommeren Shipping NV, Rotterdam, and also a director of Phs Van Ommeren (London) Ltd, who became a director of both Crawford and Medomsley, but not of Buries Markes.

In autumn 1947, Crawford and Medomsley were bought by Van Ommeren (London) Ltd, and several new directors appeared on the scene. Blair and Bell, mentioned above, disappeared off the listings. HG Mann remained, however, as a Buries Markes director and joined the Van Ommeren London board. He retired in the earlier 1950s.

The funnel and flag colours as shown in the posting above are correct as of 1939 and might well have been revived in 1945, but I can find no evidence of this. Van Ommeren livery was on all of the vessels by 1948 (the new LANGLEESCOT of 1947 entered service with Van Ommeren livery) …. Funnel: “black with white V inside white ring”; houseflag: “horizontal bands of green, white, green, white, green, with black V inside black ring on white diamond superimposed over the bands”.

I have compiled the above thanks to Lloyd’s Register, the Directory of Shipowners, Shipbuilders and Marine Engineers, Talbot-Booth various issues, and Lloyd’s Confidential Index.
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  #10  
Old 13th May 2008, 20:21
K urgess K urgess is offline
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Great stuff, Roger.
Thanks for an excellent update on the history of these two companies.
Cheers
Kris
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  #11  
Old 13th May 2008, 20:52
Bruce Carson Bruce Carson is offline
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I'm not sure if the following adds anything to the discussion.
"Flags, Funnels & Hull Colours" by Colin Stewart, revised by John S. Styring (April 1963-Revised and Enlarged) show both companies, Crawford and Medomsley, using the colours of van Ommeren.
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  #12  
Old 13th May 2008, 22:04
Dave Edge Dave Edge is offline
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Roger,
Many thanks for clarifying the situation - and we think shipowning/managing/operating is convoluted today!
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  #13  
Old 20th May 2008, 17:08
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averheijden averheijden is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roger Jordan View Post
The following might be of interest.

MEDOMSLEY STEAMSHIP CO LTD (formed 1906)
Managed until 1942 by F Carrick & Co Ltd, Newcastle
Carrick was voluntarily liquidated and re-constituted in 1942.

CRAWFORD SHIPPING CO LTD (formed 1927)
Managed and beneficially owned until 1942 by Andrew Crawford & Co Ltd, Glasgow
Andrew Crawford & Co Ltd was temporarily out of shipowning/management after losing its then last remaining vessel in 1941, but it returned to shipowning in 1945-46. It was not involved with Crawford Shipping Co Ltd after 1942.

The common link with these two companies came about in 1942 when management was taken over by HG Mann, who was the boss of Buries Markes Ltd, both with offices at 2-3 Crosby Square, Bishopsgate, London EC3.
In 1945, Crawford Shipping Co Ltd bought the steamer EMPIRE FLAME, which was renamed DUNKERY BEACON, and in 1946 Medomsley Steamship Co Ltd bought EMPIRE GALE, renamed LANGLEEGALE. The latter carried on the Medomsley naming style of Langlee----. The two 1929-built Medomsley steamers LANGLEECRAG and LANGLEETARN were taken over with the company for management by Mann in 1942.

Things get a bit complicated after the war, but it is reasonable to assume that Crawford Shipping and Medomsley were under the wing of Buries Markes, and if not subsidiaries, almost certainly “associated companies”. These all had the same address and telephone number. HG Mann and AF Blair were directors of all three companies, and those two gentlemen together with FA Bell, were directors of Crawford and Medomsley. That was how things stood in 1946. In 1947 they were joined by Mr Phs van Ommeren, a managing director of Van Ommeren Shipping NV, Rotterdam, and also a director of Phs Van Ommeren (London) Ltd, who became a director of both Crawford and Medomsley, but not of Buries Markes.

In autumn 1947, Crawford and Medomsley were bought by Van Ommeren (London) Ltd, and several new directors appeared on the scene. Blair and Bell, mentioned above, disappeared off the listings. HG Mann remained, however, as a Buries Markes director and joined the Van Ommeren London board. He retired in the earlier 1950s.

The funnel and flag colours as shown in the posting above are correct as of 1939 and might well have been revived in 1945, but I can find no evidence of this. Van Ommeren livery was on all of the vessels by 1948 (the new LANGLEESCOT of 1947 entered service with Van Ommeren livery) …. Funnel: “black with white V inside white ring”; houseflag: “horizontal bands of green, white, green, white, green, with black V inside black ring on white diamond superimposed over the bands”.

I have compiled the above thanks to Lloyd’s Register, the Directory of Shipowners, Shipbuilders and Marine Engineers, Talbot-Booth various issues, and Lloyd’s Confidential Index.
L.S.

It looks that this is the correct explanation.

A "van Ommeren" Captain explained to me that after both companies were taken over by "van Ommeren, London" the house flag was as follows:

http://i50.photobucket.com/albums/f3...o1MedCrawf.gif

As described above by Roger Jordan, the time before "van Ommeren" it was very complicated.
I thank everyone who did his utmost to clear my question

Regards
Alfons

Last edited by averheijden; 20th May 2008 at 17:10..
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  #14  
Old 8th November 2011, 04:15
LadyDonaldson LadyDonaldson is offline  
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My late Father Laurie M. Smith, sailed aboard the Langleegale from November 1950 to December 1952. I have just received his Merchant Marine Records, so it is nice to see information and pictures of this ship.
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