Shen Neng 1 aground on the Great Barrier Reef. - Page 7 - Ships Nostalgia
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Shen Neng 1 aground on the Great Barrier Reef.

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  #151  
Old 16th April 2010, 10:20
greektoon greektoon is offline  
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Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
Someone is doing those sums right now! Depends on the engineroom damage I fancy.

I have known a ship stuffed on a reef for an insurance scam but I was the man charged with finding out what happened - we rumbled it and did not pay. I won't name the owners as they are still in business. They did not think that we would go to the lengths of tracking down their ratings in three continents - the rating's stories all matched. As Iain says, very senior officers on board for that voyage (only) insufficient victualling for the officially intended voyage, salvage tug assistance not sought (when the SMIT ROTTERDAM, no less, passed within view and called up!) and to make assurance doubly sure an engine room fire (shifts the burden of proof, see...)
I think I know the case you refer to. No need to be coy, its in the public domain anyway.
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  #152  
Old 16th April 2010, 11:00
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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I think I know the case you refer to. No need to be coy, its in the public domain anyway.
I think you probably do. The XXX Club (my employers) did not pay and the H&M underwriters wimped out, which resulted in cargo Mareva'ing the H&M proceeds as there was no Club Letter. My late friend Peter Jones did the legwork. Delighted to see that his daughter is carrying on the business.
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  #153  
Old 16th April 2010, 11:47
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I like it, when a computer with good software vets a ship! I like it even more, when it manages to do this without any human interference or human bias being introduced into the answer!
Alastair,

Unfortunately (for your proposition, but fortunately for those who don't have to put our faith in unthinking machines) the computer only does what its software instructs it to do. Software is written by a human - all judgements, and actions taken are based on that human's interpretation of the opertational requirements. His/her understanding of the process are used to weight the importance of various factors involved in the decision-making.

So you have their human bias (and fallibilities) built into the decisions that the computer makes. Worse still, the computer never learns from its mistakes, but faithfully repeats them ad infinitum, until a human is instructed to re-write the software.
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  #154  
Old 16th April 2010, 12:28
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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Originally Posted by Ron Stringer View Post
Alastair,

Unfortunately (for your proposition, but fortunately for those who don't have to put our faith in unthinking machines) the computer only does what its software instructs it to do. Software is written by a human - all judgements, and actions taken are based on that human's interpretation of the opertational requirements. His/her understanding of the process are used to weight the importance of various factors involved in the decision-making.

So you have their human bias (and fallibilities) built into the decisions that the computer makes. Worse still, the computer never learns from its mistakes, but faithfully repeats them ad infinitum, until a human is instructed to re-write the software.
I also like cad-cam and data bases, however as smart as the software may be, it doesn't flag up stress damage and cracking at bulkhead collars, nor does it measure corroded ballast tank vent pipes, and/or damaged ballast tank coatings.

Also, there is nothing on the bridge which guarantees that the, "watch-keeper", is keeping a watch!

Having seen as many bulk carriers/VLOOCs/OBOs and other rusting, floating, deathtraps, as I have; I've long wondered why reasonably intelligent seafarers go to sea in them! As for "Mountain Thistle", I have written a few words about this vessel and it's successors, (in hull numbers), elsewhere on this forum.

You see Alistair, cad-cam is all very well and good for design and theoretical loading, but the bloody computer does NOT carry out the high quality welding and weld inspection during and after construction.
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  #155  
Old 16th April 2010, 12:51
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Well, I put my employers' money where my mouth was, on that one, 16 years ago.

We spent an awful lot of time and quite a lot of money on building a better bulker -30mm tank tops, abrasion resistant epoxy, intercostals, strengthened bulkheads, avoidance of stool space cracking, hydraulic rack and pinion roll up roll covers, programmable hold cleaning guns with eductors and a free fall lifeboat a decade before the IMO made them mandatory:

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galler...radale/cat/510

Known to her builders as "the yellow Rolls-Royce"!

I'd be interested to know how she scored on Rightship, if anyone with access cares to check.
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  #156  
Old 16th April 2010, 13:37
non descript non descript is offline
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Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
Well, I put my employers' money where my mouth was, on that one, 16 years ago.

We spent an awful lot of time and quite a lot of money on building a better bulker ...

I'd be interested to know how she scored on Rightship, if anyone with access cares to check.
Although it is only a guide, at the moment she has 4 Stars (and is called ERRADALE STAR which is fun)

Last edited by non descript; 16th April 2010 at 13:40..
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  #157  
Old 16th April 2010, 13:54
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Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
Well, I put my employers' money where my mouth was, on that one, 16 years ago.

We spent an awful lot of time and quite a lot of money on building a better bulker -30mm tank tops, abrasion resistant epoxy, intercostals, strengthened bulkheads, avoidance of stool space cracking, hydraulic rack and pinion roll up roll covers, programmable hold cleaning guns with eductors and a free fall lifeboat a decade before the IMO made them mandatory:

https://www.shipsnostalgia.com/galler...radale/cat/510

Known to her builders as "the yellow Rolls-Royce"!

I'd be interested to know how she scored on Rightship, if anyone with access cares to check.
It's appreciated Andrew, but it could have been done much earlier, not necessarily by you; but by the industry! Lower manning scale calls for ease of cleaning, as does specialised coating.

I've been out of the repair field since '94, so I'm not as familiar with the new systems as you are. The old basic rules will still apply though, a damaged coating is a potential hole, how big depends on the standard of CMS inspections and repairs.

Last edited by Billieboy; 16th April 2010 at 14:02..
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  #158  
Old 16th April 2010, 14:41
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Although it is only a guide, at the moment she has 4 Stars (and is called ERRADALE STAR which is fun)
Thanks.

She was sold to Lou Kollakis six years ago with a five year bare boat charterback to CNCo.

She was in part a reaction against the loss of the "Mineral Diamond".

The idea was to build a bulker that would last, and which could be operated safely by a small crew over a long time; in the event I think we can say that we suceeded.

The reason we went to H&W was in part the excellence of their hull design department (I'd particularly like to mention John Bedford) and in part the refusal of Eastern yards to accept that we were serious about putting seven thousand tons of "unnecessary" steel into a ship.

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  #159  
Old 17th April 2010, 00:22
Portway Portway is offline  
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Grounding of Shen Neng 1

Extract from the Australian Newspaper 0900Hrs 17 04 2010.


Bad weather prevented divers from doing any further investigations of the hull of the Shen Neng 1, now lying in deeper waters off Great Keppel Island. Because the rough weather is expected to continue, the salvage company that must decide the future of the ship is considering using a robotic submarine to do the inspections.

Maritime Safety Queensland general manager Patrick Quirk said there had been no leakage from the ship despite the rolling caused by the swell.

The ship is holding well and the situation is stable with no emerging issues of concern.

Portway Sydney Australia.
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  #160  
Old 17th April 2010, 01:12
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Originally Posted by alastairrussell View Post

.......... I do not see any of you being interested in what is in the new IMO code which relates to the loading and discharging of bulk carriers and is supposed to be signed off and come into service next January. I am, and I would like to know if fatigue and working hours gets a mention? Has anyone sighted a copy?

I do also not see any of you being interested in the new IMO PSC inspection and database system that is being introduced at the same time! I am, and I would love to know what is in it..............
Alastair,

You can keep up to date with all these matters on the IMO web site!
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  #161  
Old 17th April 2010, 07:28
alastairrussell alastairrussell is offline  
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Bill and Ron,

When I gave up going to sea in 1985, I worked design verifying and investigating boiler and pressure vessel failures for a government OH and S department.

It was easy, all boilers and PVs in Australia had to be built, welded, tested, operated and maintained to an Australian or sometimes an overseas standard. All the Australian PV standard documents were all crossed referenced.

Way back then, we had a quite simple software programmed in GW Basic which was written to detect any non compliance in the design drawings put up for verifying and built to a particular Standard . You fed in all the data from the drawings into an old steam driven Wang computer and it beeped when it found a non compliance! It was easy!

During a failure investigation all an inspector has to do then was to collect or photograph the evidence and then detail all the non compliances to the appropriate PV standard in his investigation report. This made the inspector’s job real easy when being cross examined in the witness stand. Everything is either in compliance or is sub standard, there are no gray areas!

The international shipping industry still suffers from a wee bit of basic dishonesty and corrupt activities. We all remember back in the old days before improvements in communication came in when the master of the ship had real power. The company orders to the master then was ‘you must expedite the ship at all times’! The cost of all this expediting of his ship was just passed on into the discharge costs. I remember one of my favourite skippers delaying the ship in a USA port for 24 hours because he did not want his ship putting to sea on a black Friday. Can you imagine that happening in this day and age?

Bill, if we could end up with IMO and IACS having one set of codes, standards and regulations for all international ships. It would surely make the job of all PSC, marine and engineering surveyors a lot easier. There will be no gray areas, no local standards being used. Everything on the ship including the welding will either be in compliance or substandard to the IMO/IACS rules. If substandard welding of ship hulls becomes an issue in the future the welding standard will be changed and there could be an increase in the amount of NDT done on welding runs with all defective welding found, being gouged out and rewelded.

There have been some great developments introduced by the IT industry. You only have to look at velocity prediction programmes (VPP) being used in designing fast racing sailboats. From the VPP they have now developed new computerised design handicapping systems that are very accurate. They have stopped using biased human inputs from the hands of the club handicapper.

The IT industry is also making it harder for all criminals. I have been on a few juries and I was surprised at the amount of evidence being used that is coming in from large data bases. Out here they brought in a new law to stop money laundering for the purpose of importing illegal drugs. It was not long after that they then caught a swag of fine up standing chartered accountants! They linked them to the drug boss by looking into the telephone company’s large computerised data base of client’s phone calls!

The AU government here has spent $300,000,000 putting in new computers so that all government departments can talk to each other and cross check their records automatically. The word is out that you cannot now tell the income tax office one thing and the pension and unemployment agency another!!

Electronic systems are now doing a better job of looking after the ER than a human watch keeper so I would of course prefer a good well built UMS engine roomed ship to a watch keeping one.

Mind you, I did like doing the 4 to 8 watch and then turning too after breakfast to do a wee bit of maintenance. I was a second engineer for the majority of my time at sea and I think I fitted in well in this position. Even now I wake every morning automatically at 4 and start planning my day. It is strange my memory comes good then and I am a sharp as a tack and after that it’s all down hill during the day.

I was never comfortable when sailing as chief, maybe I was born to be on the 4 to 8 watch.

With regards to your comment about who would want to go to sea on some of these rust buckets. I see that INCO one of the last Australian owned ship management companies wants 40 qualified marine engineers, 20 deck officers and 30 ratings.

Its Chief engineers get 130 to 150 thousand dollars AU per year and the leave rate is just about one on one off (.926). They are getting a lot of applicants but none of them have the proper skill or qualifications!

Regards

Alastair

Last edited by alastairrussell; 17th April 2010 at 23:39.. Reason: Typo
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  #162  
Old 17th April 2010, 08:32
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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Alistair, I agree that standards have risen since 1980, but despite the various computer programmes being upgraded and improved on a regular basis, the information put into the computers still requires an experienced eye to be dragged through double bottoms and up stringers to under deck positions on bulkheads in tanks and holds 30-40M deep. You know yourself, that it takes a week to inspect the eight corners of every Bulkhead in a reasonably big, (200K+ dwt), ship. Time, is what the, general ship, owner never has for safety inspections!

PSC does, at last, remove most of the deathtraps, but it has taken more than twenty years to get the system running in a reasonable manner. I remember discussing PSC with some of the senior Surveyors in Rotterdam just after the system was started. With a hundred ships coming into Rotterdam every day, there were a total of five inspectors! There are a few more these days and the information is passed on from State to State; this catches the odd dodger quite easily.
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  #163  
Old 17th April 2010, 10:19
boyd guard boyd guard is offline  
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billieboy,passed the torry canyon as they blew her up with bombs, have identical photo as in the book.
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  #164  
Old 17th April 2010, 19:10
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You were lucky not to get hit then Boyd! What a bender that would have been, on the Barrier Reef!
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  #165  
Old 18th April 2010, 04:17
alastairrussell alastairrussell is offline  
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Alastair,

You can keep up to date with all these matters on the IMO web site!
JB

Thanks for the info about the IMO website, I already have IMO in my favourites list and I do scan it now and again.

I get the feeling that they want me to purchase the codes rather than read them on their website. With me being a Scottish born Australian! I am now a wee bit of a ‘retired Meany’ and would rather spend my pennies elsewhere!!

I did check my so called International Seagoing qualifications on the IMO website and I was put out that the AMSA had me down as having ‘expired qualifications’.

I wanted to be able to operate a steam boat or launch here in Gippsland Lakes in VIC. So I contacted Marine Safety Victoria asking for a state coastal steam engineers ticket in lieu of my expired Australian Commonwealth class 1 steam and motor certificate. I was then told that they only issued tickets in lieu of a National certificate if they are valid!

I then said “what’s this National Certificate, in my day it was either a deep sea or a coastal certificate and it would cost me arm and leg in accommodation costs alone to re-validate my DEEP SEA ticket”. Ï said “It would be a lot cheaper for me to sit your exam, but in doing so it’s only fair to me that you insure that my examiner should have valid class 1 steam ticket”. There was deathly silence on the phone! I then checked if my NSW Boiler Inspector Licence was still valid and it is.

In all fairness to them and the AMSA it appears they are only complying with the IMO’s new STCW international maritime qualification system and the high cost of revalidating marine qualifications privately is an Australian problem! It looks like I will just have to carry on using my sails along with the 20 HP Yanmar diesel.

Regards

Alastair

Last edited by alastairrussell; 18th April 2010 at 06:37.. Reason: typo
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  #166  
Old 18th April 2010, 04:59
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I fully understand your feelings Alastair and can't argue with what you are saying.
It is worthwhile remembering that to revalidate our certificates every five years is totally free if we can prove one year sea time during the previous five years. Otherwise, as you say, it costs an arm and a leg to do the course.
It is not just an Australian problem but is supposed to be worldwide following the introduction of STCW 95 which tightened up requirements internationally. The STCW Convention is at this moment being further strengthened so that hopefully world wide standards will be improved once again.
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  #167  
Old 18th April 2010, 10:37
Iain B Iain B is offline  
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Shen Neng 1 Fatigue and Hull Life Span



Most ships have a lifespan of a few decades before there is so much wear that refitting and repair becomes uneconomical. Shen Neng 1 fast approaching the 20 year mark.



All vessels are built with a given fatigue capacity when leaving the shipyard. This fatigue capacity is being reduced from the very first day in operation. Theoretically, this fatigue capacity reduction is evenly distributed over the projected life span of the vessel. along with Maintenance schedules and procedures etc, actual events however might not mirror theory. Peak stress loads during loading, discharging or heavy weather might accelerate the development of fatigue in the hull.



Average dynamic stress levels of 12% will result in a hull life span of 23 years. An increase of average dynamic stress levels to 18% will reduce hull life span to just 8.6 years. Sheng Neng 1 is already very close to the mark. Being just over seventeen years old and on her third owner perhaps like a car of the same age not a good investment to the average person [the engine may still run but the body is not so good].

Portway Sydney Australia.
Portway

Material fatigue and this sort of techical question is a long way out side my knowledge and competence, but I do remember having a long meeting about it with some class society people and some academics from a large university's Naval Arch faculty.

This would be in 92? (maybe 93?) when bulk carrier losses were a very serious concern. As I recall someone had published a technical paper and this fatigue issue had been raised. I also seem to recall that the UK Govnmt were trying to sell a warship to the Indians and then they were told it had reached it's 'fatigue' end of life.

I don't remember much about the technical briefing at all (due to not understanding most of it) but I do recall a few comments "mild steel is a very forgiving material" and I do remember that the Class people were promoting the new IACS Unified Requirements and they were confident this would address any fatigue problems.

Of course there is an increasing possibility of damage or failure in an older ship, but the number and value of Hull claims on older ships (of all ship types) has imporved since the 90's. We do not see structural failures starting at 9 and 10 years old.

I would not (and could not) disagree with your technical arguments, but the in built design strength of ships and the current inspection regime seems to be achieving what we hoped for.

As Andrew suggests, ~I am sure that whether the Shen Neng 1 ends up as a Total loss will be a judgement based on an assessment of the amount of damage in the Engine room.


Iain

Last edited by Iain B; 18th April 2010 at 10:41..
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  #168  
Old 18th April 2010, 11:25
Iain B Iain B is offline  
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Originally Posted by alastairrussell View Post
Dear friends

I disagree with some of the above posts and I am thinking that a few of you might have your heads stuck in the sand. Is it not time to stop defending some of the ‘not so good’ procedures of the past and to start looking ahead into the future to improve the way things are done in the international shipping game. Surely, we all must get behind IMO and the IACS and help them to produce one set of rules, standards and codes for all International Shipping. We owe it to the seafarers.

I do not see any of you being interested in what is in the new IMO code which relates to the loading and discharging of bulk carriers and is supposed to be signed off and come into service next January. I am, and I would like to know if fatigue and working hours gets a mention? Has anyone sighted a copy?

I do also not see any of you being interested in the new IMO PSC inspection and database system that is being introduced at the same time! I am, and I would love to know what is in it.

Iain and Mark

I have read everything I can on RightShip and I see it differently from both of you. I am of the view that this computerised vetting system was introduced in Australia to stop the ‘ships of shame’ and the ban on 15 year old ships being loaded. It would also, stop the ‘iffy’ practise of having a ship blacklist.

The way I read it, Rightship wants to stop a 2 star (unacceptable ships) from being chartered and then sent in ballast to load in Australia. Is it not better that an owner of a 2 star ship improves the ship and gets his extra star before the ship is allowed to be chartered?? I like, computers and good software. I like, AutoCAD design software along with its attached Finite element analysis vetting software. I like it, when a computer with good software vets a ship! I like it even more, when it manages to do this without any human interference or human bias being introduced into the answer!


We have to realise that some of our Australian mineral loading ports do not have safe anchorages, major repair facilities or detention and lay up berths for the large Bulk carriers. To keep the queues of ships down to a reasonable level we have to turn the ships round quickly. We do not have the time or the facilities to inspect and hand out stars. Surely, surely, the onus has to put back on the shipowner to get his ship in a three star rating situation before it is chartered!!!.

With regards to the Chen Seng1 I remember back in the early 70’s when we loaded our panamax bulk carrier in Port Hedland in 8 hours (two loaders). It was a two team effort one loading the iron ore fines and the other pumping the ballast out. It was not a one man show! Even then, in the engine room we adjusted the change over time of the sea watches when leaving to ensure that the watch keepers got some rest.

Iain, it will be very interesting to see what happens to her. With the engine room now being flooded, it will a long tow up to the nearest economic repair facilities say in Singapore. If the DBs in the ME area are damaged, this could have affected the ME alignment! Go into the ATSB site and look up the grounding of the MV Iron Baron. She was 10 years old and they de-oiled the ship and then towed her out to sea and sunk her in 4000 metres of water with her cargo still onboard. In Australia we call it the ‘Tyranny of Distance’ and with the Chen Neng 1 only being a 3 star ship when she left China I just cannot see how she will not be a write off. Time will tell. Depending on her damage Gladstone harbour authorities may refuse her entry into their port.

Can you tell me where I can obtain any information on the new IMO PSC code along with the new the new database THETIS?




Dear friends



Regards

Alastair
Alastair

A few comments on some of the points made.

IMO Code on bulk carrier loading - I guess this is the BLU code? This is in force and has been for a while. There was a whole raft of new Bulk carriers regs rolled out in the mid 90's and I am sure this was one of them.

Fatigue - STCW includes rest hour requirements for watchkeepers. The new MLC convention will mean work and rest hours are regulated for all crew members.

Computers vs Humans - My problem is that the computer (including Rightship's computer) only calculate risk based on the information that is inputed. PSC inspectors are not superheroes ans some are not even basically competent. Rightship relies heavily on PSC input and considers an inspection by a corrupt inspector in certain ports to be of the same value as an inspection by a qualified and experienced inspector somewhere else. A clear inspetion will imporeve the rightship rating (an owner can bribe these people -in fact some of them expect to be bribed). Not only does he get a short and painless inspection, but he gets his star rating enhanced and the users of the system are misled.

Even in 'good' ports so called 'good' PSC inspectors are limited in what they can do and what they are allowed to do. They do not do structural inspctions, they do not go into the holds.

Shen Neng CTL - The current Rightship rating of a Panamax will have no bearing at all on a commercial / insurance decision to see if she will be CTL or not. She will have an insured value and if the cost of repair is greater than the insured value then she will be a CTL. if not she won't. I do not know what her insured value is, but Panamaxes are earning decent money. Looking at Sale & Purchase reports I would guess she has a resale value of 25 -30 million dollars. You can do a lot of repairs for 20 Million.


IMO PSC Codes
IMO encourages PSC regimes to be set up on a regional basis in an attempt to maintain some control and sanity. i.e. prevent PSC inspections in every port (should only be inspected once, when it's due, in each PSC region) and try to maintain some comon interpretations. This does not work either different inspectors in the same port see things differently.

The new system you refer to is the Paris MOU (EU) PSC region. A clever system devised by clever people using data input of variable and unreliable quality.


Iain

Last edited by Iain B; 18th April 2010 at 11:33..
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  #169  
Old 18th April 2010, 13:16
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When we were coming up with the Erradale I spent quite a while having fatigue in steel structures explained to me, along with related matters like stress corrosion cracking. The type of steel has an awful lot to do with it.
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  #170  
Old 20th April 2010, 01:19
alastairrussell alastairrussell is offline  
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Alastair

A few comments on some of the points made.

IMO Code on bulk carrier loading - I guess this is the BLU code? This is in force and has been for a while. There was a whole raft of new Bulk carriers regs rolled out in the mid 90's and I am sure this was one of them.

Fatigue - STCW includes rest hour requirements for watchkeepers. The new MLC convention will mean work and rest hours are regulated for all crew members.

Computers vs Humans - My problem is that the computer (including Rightship's computer) only calculate risk based on the information that is inputed. PSC inspectors are not superheroes ans some are not even basically competent. Rightship relies heavily on PSC input and considers an inspection by a corrupt inspector in certain ports to be of the same value as an inspection by a qualified and experienced inspector somewhere else. A clear inspetion will imporeve the rightship rating (an owner can bribe these people -in fact some of them expect to be bribed). Not only does he get a short and painless inspection, but he gets his star rating enhanced and the users of the system are misled.

Even in 'good' ports so called 'good' PSC inspectors are limited in what they can do and what they are allowed to do. They do not do structural inspctions, they do not go into the holds.

Shen Neng CTL - The current Rightship rating of a Panamax will have no bearing at all on a commercial / insurance decision to see if she will be CTL or not. She will have an insured value and if the cost of repair is greater than the insured value then she will be a CTL. if not she won't. I do not know what her insured value is, but Panamaxes are earning decent money. Looking at Sale & Purchase reports I would guess she has a resale value of 25 -30 million dollars. You can do a lot of repairs for 20 Million.


IMO PSC Codes
IMO encourages PSC regimes to be set up on a regional basis in an attempt to maintain some control and sanity. i.e. prevent PSC inspections in every port (should only be inspected once, when it's due, in each PSC region) and try to maintain some comon interpretations. This does not work either different inspectors in the same port see things differently.

The new system you refer to is the Paris MOU (EU) PSC region. A clever system devised by clever people using data input of variable and unreliable quality.


Iain
Iain

Thanks for all your info. With regard to the new code of practice due in January, I am confused as I have sighted conflicting information. I would like to say now, that there is a strong ‘possibility’ that your BLU book is being replaced by a new code with a different name. This new IMO code is on sale at the moment and is graded as being voluntary perhaps becoming compulsory in January 2012. But please do not take my word for it. I am confused!.

I have attached the following from the AMSA dated march 2007. The full document can be viewed in their website.

Following the dramatic increase in the number of bulk carrier incidents and the loss of their crews, the International Maritime Organization (IMO) developed and subsequently adopted a wide range of safety measures designed to improve the safety of bulk carriers.

Included in these safety measures are requirements for improving the strength and maintenance of bulk carriers, guidelines for their inspection at terminals (IMO Resolution A.866 (20)) and recommendations concerning the loading and unloading of bulk cargoes. The latter are published in the “Code of Practice for the Safe Loading and Unloading of Bulk Carriers” (Res. A.862 (20)), which was adopted by the IMO in November 1997 and amended by MSC.238(82) effective from the 1st of January 2007. The Code is important as it addresses the issue of safety of bulk carriers in ports whereas other IMO measures are primarily concerned with the safety of bulk carriers at sea. It provides a realistic and pragmatic risk management framework, and covers all solid bulk cargoes except grain. Guidance on such matters as the suitability of ships, procedures between ships and shore, cargo transfer and ballast handling is included in the Code.

The Code primarily stems from an Australian initiative at IMO. It was subsequently developed in consultation with, and the support of, Australian industry including shipowners, the mining industry represented by the Minerals Council of Australia and bulk cargo terminal operators. AMSA gratefully acknowledges the active and ongoing assistance of these parties in the development of the Code.

Amendments to SOLAS Chapter VI, which enter into force internationally on 1 July 1998, provide for a terminal representative to be appointed and makes reference to the Code. The recommendations of the Code include guidance on the functions of the terminal representative in relation to good practice and the loading and unloading of solid bulk cargoes. Most Australian terminals have staff whose duties include managing the interface with the ship and would satisfy the terminal representative requirement.

The Australian Government is committed to the preservation on the marine environment and the protection of life and property at sea. AMSA endorses the Code in the belief that it makes a valuable contribution to the attainment of this objective and recommends its use by ships, cargo interests and terminals involved in the loading or unloading of solid bulk cargoes. This can only help to achieve the aim of safe ships and clean oceans.


I had a look at the new Paris MOU PSC region website, I like it and hope it goes well. With regard to the corrupted inputs into the present PSC system that’s a different story.

The whole international shipping industry and most waterfronts have always been dishonest and corrupt and it was real bad well before the letters PSC appeared. I am not game to tell you about some of my experiences. Remember the rule, the ‘master must expedite his ship’. On the other side, I sailed with a master that refused to sign a bill unless he got his 5%, so you can imagine what his nick name was! He even put the ‘heavies’ on the old dobie lady for cut in her takings!

Do you remember when the LR localised some of their overseas offices??

I was in one bad port in Asia were the payoffs paid by the ships agents was exactly the same as the total discharge costs!

I remember when there was a major corruption clamp down in the USA waterfront during a big political corruption scandal that was going on then. The dry dock people even stopped supplying us with a TV for the officer’s lounge. What about the Australian painters and dockers union!

I honestly feel computer systems have or will reduce this problem. Everyone’s actions including the surveyors are now on public display in databases and remember too, the email documentation system used by major companies is also catching a few execs out. The cash society is on the way out.

If IMO manages to produce good competent written Codes and Standards, I am sure the software programmers will to do the same.


Alastair

Last edited by alastairrussell; 20th April 2010 at 01:25..
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  #171  
Old 20th April 2010, 04:08
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Duncan112 Duncan112 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Andrew Craig-Bennett View Post
When we were coming up with the Erradale I spent quite a while having fatigue in steel structures explained to me, along with related matters like stress corrosion cracking. The type of steel has an awful lot to do with it.
It is indeed complex, I did my thesis for my EC examination on prediction of life in a bulk carrier structure, the nub of the problem was the length of any defect that would lead to sudden structural failure and the number of stress cycles that would cause an undetected defect (weld inclusion) to propagate to this length. Until we have 100% radiographs of welds we will have the potential problem of ships structures having a finite (but unknown) life, we can take a punt at loss of integrity due to corrosion and when the stress imposed on the structure will get on the wrong side of the sn curve but not on the size of any defect that will develop into a crack. Having been on a ship that developed serious hull cracks (having only recently passed a special survey in dock) it is frightening (and what prompted me in my thesis subject)

The earlier estimate of 23 years roughly coincided with my estimates from a 1mm weld defect. The reduction in life is roughly exponential with increase in defect size.

THe stress monitoring set up on Erradale was very valuable for seeing the change in stress due to weather and course - does Andrew know if it is still in use?

Duncan
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Old 20th April 2010, 04:59
Portway Portway is offline  
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From the Morning Bulletin Rochampton Queensland. 20 04 2010.

The Shen Neng 1 is to be brought to Gladstone for the next stage of the salvage operation.

The bulk coal carrier will be brought into Gladstone to unload coal and potentially undergo repairs before being towed overseas, maritime officials have announced.

An entry to Gladstone on Thursday is probable provided weather conditions are suitable.

Maritime Safety Queensland General Manager Patrick Quirk said salvage experts had indicated the Shen Neng 1 required repairs and some cargo to be discharged prior to being towed directly to a foreign port.

“Because it was so damaged in the grounding the ship probably needs to have a significant amount of coal unloaded and potentially have some temporary repairs undertaken before it leaves Australian waters,” Mr Quirk said.

“But make no mistake, while it remains in our waters we’ll be taking every possible precaution to ensure we take care of the ship and minimise the risk of further oil discharge.”

Gladstone Ports Corporation CEO Leo Zussino was yesterday unable to comment on the move to bring the carrier here because of his position on the Australian Maritime Safety Authority.

He said, however, all relevant authorities were putting plans in place to ensure the Gladstone public was well informed of the planned exercise.

Portway Sydney Australia.

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Old 20th April 2010, 15:39
Billieboy Billieboy is offline  
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The main problem that I have with all these, "Rules and Safe Operational Practice", regs is that eventually scantlings will be measured to allow operation within the regs, irrespective of the age and or the corroded state of other parts of the vessel. We have already heard that PSC, "stays on the deck", and that, other than class, no-one is required to go mountaineering through the vessel.

Agreed; there are owners who ensure that their vessels are properly maintained, yet when those vessels are sold, where is the regulation, (other than special survey - a class requirement), which removes poor vessels from the trade? Let us not forget that the shipping master who signs on the crew is only required to check the load line and SOLAS certificates; the seamen's union guy just collects the dues from the seafarers.
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Old 20th April 2010, 16:35
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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The practise use to be that the first owner (from new) kept them for around 7 yrs and then paper moved them to a subsidary working under F.O.C. and I would have thought that if a vessel had been involved in a serious incident it's Star rating would be zeroed until the inquiry was completed, at the moment it's just a Hulk.
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Old 20th April 2010, 17:13
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Andrew Craig-Bennett Andrew Craig-Bennett is offline  
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(I'm going to parade some specialised knowledge, here..) I suspect, reading between the lines, that there is a right royal barney going on between Shenzhen Energy Transport and Svitzers over redelivery from the Lloyd's Form. LOF requires the vessel to be delivered to her owners by the salvors in a "place of safety" and it can certainly be argued, and probably is being argued, that "at anchor of the Queensland coast" is not a "place of safety" if you are a dead ship floating on your tank tops. In the old days (1970's, in my case!) the SA surveyor (when there were such people) would have pulled a long face if asked for a certificate of seaworthiness for an ocean tow on tank tops with the cargo still aboard. So SET want the ship alongside and some at least of the cargo out. The salvors on the other hand know that every day spent adds to their costs without a corresponding increase in the salvage award, so they want to redeliver the ship as soon as possible.
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