Ship Departures Help - Ships Nostalgia
14:56

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

Ship Departures Help

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 5th September 2019, 20:56
TexasNavy TexasNavy is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Ship Departures Help

Hello,

Looking for help in finding the name of a troop / passenger ship which departed Sydney, Australia on 17th July 1941 and arrived in the UK (port unknown) on 2nd September 1941. My Uncle who was in the RAAF was onboard.

If any can provide guidance on where I could start researching I would be most appreciative.

Yours sincerely
Paul Burns
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 6th September 2019, 16:13
eddyw eddyw is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 7,593
You could try this site, which includes details of ship movements:
http://www.convoyweb.org.uk/index.html
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 16th September 2019, 17:13
TexasNavy TexasNavy is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Many thanks for the link Eddyw, much appreciated.

Whilst I have not been able to find the information I am looking for as yet, the Convoy Website is full of very interesting information which I am enjoying perusing.

Many thanks again.

Yours sincerely

Paul Burns
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 16th September 2019, 18:36
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,292
Paul, That Convoy HX133 departing Sydney... it is Sydney CB, as in Sydney Cape Breton, hence the code for HX is 'Halifax'. Not much use to you.

Piers Plowman wrote a book about all convoy's departing Australian ports. I can't find my copy! Not much use to you either.

Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 16th September 2019, 19:00
TexasNavy TexasNavy is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Thanks Stephen,

I have looked up the book and will purchase a copy, looks a good reference and research source.

Regards

Paul
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 16th September 2019, 19:22
Foca Foca is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1955 - 1997
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
Departure Sydney Thursday 17th July 1941

I am not really sure but a ship leaving Sydney on that date.
"California Star" Independent .......she was torpedoed in 1943 by German submarine U-515, 45 crew lost from total 64..1 taken POW
Information taken from Arnold Hague Ports Database.
Hope it will be a step in the right direction, but it is not certain if thats the ship you want. "California Star" was owned by Blue Star Line, which did run to Australia
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 16th September 2019, 21:08
Wismajorvik's Avatar
Wismajorvik Wismajorvik is online now  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Radio Officer
Active: 1962 - 1979
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Posts: 204
Have you seen this?

https://recordsearch.naa.gov.au/Sear...ameSearch.aspx
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 17th September 2019, 01:31
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by TexasNavy View Post
Thanks Stephen,

I have looked up the book and will purchase a copy, looks a good reference and research source.

Regards

Paul

Paul, Don't panic! Found the book... wrong shelf!

I will go through if I can see if s has what you wants.

ACROSS THE SEA TO WAR - Australia and New Zealand Convoys from 1865 to the two World Wars to Korea and Vietnam. -Peter Plowman. Excellent cover... by self. ;-)

Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 17th September 2019, 02:21
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,292
Paul, Quite a bit of info and might give you a couple of problems.

IF you uncle was travelling in a Troopship there are some problems. He might have gone by say, small cargoboat heading to the UK, but if he went in a trooper it would have been the JOHAN VAN OLDENBARNEVELT (JVO).

JVO arrived Sydney 16th July 1941. Embarked 1,500 troops and sailed on the 17th. for Auckland. At Auckland the troops disembarked and JVO went back to Sydney on 25th July. She then joined MARNIX VAN ST ALDERGONDE, SIBAJAK for the next voyage from Fremantle on Convoy US11B on 8th August. The convoy carried troops from various regiments "....as well as numerous RAAF reinforcements."

The convoy arrived Singapore on 16th August, The troops disembarked and the ships returned to Australia.

So, from this, it is helpful but perhaps not. These are the only troop convoys leaving Sydney on this period.

I am going to assume a few points:

1. Your uncle may well have been on JVO on the 17th July.. went to Auckland and remained on board and then went onward to the voyage to Singapore.

2. Unlikely he sailed in ships that were carrying troops without escort and would have been one of the convoys.

3. I don't think he was in a ship that went independent and headed round S. Africa. Too risky. So, might have gone back to the UK via the JVO to Singapore and another ship across to the Pacific and then by another ship to Panama, New York and transatlantic to UK. Possible and likely.

4. Next important. You can see the time to get from Sydney on 17th July and then to Singapore 1th August. No way he would have been able to get to the UK by early September!

5. If he went by a cargo ship, not in convoy, sailed 17th July and went directly Sydney to Panama to UK, would have taken six or eight weeks, without escort, convoy etc.

6. Next job, find shipping lists for Sydney if he sailed in another ship, not as a transport. Possible, but you will need to look for the lists for those dates.

Stephen
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 17th September 2019, 02:25
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,292
Further.

The troopships that we coming out of Sydney etc during this perid including the big ships like QUEEN MARY, QUEEN ELIZABETH AQUITANIA etc and they were running to the Middle East and Singapore, not heading to the UK.

The book DE JOHAN VAN OLDENBARNEVELT by Wim Grund. This book has a very detailed logs of the voyages for the ship in this period... day by day! Crew lists, photos etc, but no lists of troops. That would have been too easy.

Stephen

Last edited by Stephen J. Card; 17th September 2019 at 02:34..
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 17th September 2019, 11:34
Roger Griffiths's Avatar
Roger Griffiths Roger Griffiths is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,077
Hello,
Just to confirm the movements of JVO. Taken from documents in the British National Archive. Reference MT40/147. See attached.

May I ask where the dates of departure and arrival are sourced from. Are they from RAAF records, personal recollections of your Uncle or what?
I think Stephen's analysis regarding transhipment's is highly likely.

regards
Roger
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 19072011 056.jpg (247.6 KB, 8 views)
__________________
Dim ateb yn well nag ateb anghywir. Nid oes dim yn ddall fel rhai nad ydynt yn dymuno gweld
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 17th September 2019, 13:08
Foca Foca is offline  
Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1955 - 1997
 
Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 88
Can't be the "California Star" as it only arrived Liverpool as below

Sydney NSW, Jul 17, 1941 Independent Brisbane, Jul 19, 1941
Brisbane, Jul 21, 1941 Independent Melbourne, Jul 23, 1941
Independent Sydney NSW, Jul 23, 1941
Melbourne, Jul 23, 1941 Independent
Sydney NSW, Jul 24, 1941 Independent Melbourne, Jul 26, 1941

Sydney NSW, Jul 24, 1941 Independent Melbourne, Jul 26, 1941
Melbourne, Jul 29, 1941 Independent Singapore, Aug 13, 1941
Singapore, Aug 28, 1941 Independent Townsville, Sep 18, 1941
Townsville, Sep 19, 1941 Independent Sydney NSW, Sep 24, 1941
Sydney NSW, Sep 27, 1941 Independent Balboa, Oct 20, 1941
Cristobal, Oct 22, 1941 Independent
Bermuda, Oct 28, 1941 Independent Liverpool, Nov 7, 1941

Last edited by Foca; 17th September 2019 at 13:11..
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17th September 2019, 13:47
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is online now  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,292
Quote:
Originally Posted by Foca View Post
Can't be the "California Star" as it only arrived Liverpool as below


Bermuda, Oct 28, 1941 Independent Liverpool, Nov 7, 1941

Ah! Bermuda, 28 Oct. My birthday..... 11 years later!
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 25th September 2019, 21:37
TexasNavy TexasNavy is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
Many thanks to everyone who have responded with information. It is much appreciated. I agree with you all that with what little I have been able to see myself is that the California star could not be the ship.

I am attempting to research using the link provided by Wismajorvik and am following up a lead provided by Steven.

In response to Rogers question I got the dates from my Uncles records which are titled "Personal Record of Service Airmen R.A.A.F Form P/P.25." The reference to embarkation and arrival are in Section 22 titled "Movements and Miscellaneous Items"

Once again many thanks and I will keep you updated with any other information I may find.

Regards
Paul
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 27th September 2019, 20:13
TexasNavy TexasNavy is offline  
Member
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 6
National Archives of Australia

I found these records regarding embarkation rolls from Sydney listed in the NAA but now need to figure out how to drill down further. Will keep you posted.

Regards

Paul
Attached Images
File Type: jpg Embarkation Rolls.JPG (54.9 KB, 7 views)
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off




Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.