Apapa - Ships Nostalgia
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  #1  
Old 11th June 2019, 14:34
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Apapa

Hello everyone, I'm doing some research for a book and wonder if anyone can help. I'd like to know as much as possible about what the journey from Lagos to Liverpool would have been like in 1949, for those traveling third class as well as first. What were the cabins like? Would it have been easy to run around the deck every morning? What were the main differences between first and third class? What sort of activities were available? Was it a smooth journey? Anyone? Thanks.
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  #2  
Old 11th June 2019, 16:37
eddyw eddyw is offline  
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Interesting account by Fred Thompson of Liverpool-Lagos voyage on Accra in 1952 here: (scroll down)
http://www.liverpoolships.org/accra_...ter_lines.html

You can get an idea of the layout and accommodation from the deck plans here:

http://www.lind.org.zw/ships/dempste...arge/index.htm

Running around the deck (lower promenade, C Deck) before breakfast was something of an institution for seasoned passengers. North of Las Palmas Atlantic gales were a risk; off the African coast baby hurricanes (localised but extremely violent) might turn up in season.

Last edited by eddyw; 11th June 2019 at 16:57..
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  #3  
Old 11th June 2019, 17:39
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyw View Post
Interesting account by Fred Thompson of Liverpool-Lagos voyage on Accra in 1952 here: (scroll down)
http://www.liverpoolships.org/accra_...ter_lines.html

You can get an idea of the layout and accommodation from the deck plans here:

http://www.lind.org.zw/ships/dempste...arge/index.htm

Running around the deck (lower promenade, C Deck) before breakfast was something of an institution for seasoned passengers. North of Las Palmas Atlantic gales were a risk; off the African coast baby hurricanes (localised but extremely violent) might turn up in season.
Eddy, thanks very much. This is really useful.
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  #4  
Old 11th June 2019, 20:00
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Dickyboy Dickyboy is online now
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Hi Berniemosh. I might be wrong, but my first thought is that there might not have been many 3rd class passengers. Most, I suspect would have been colonial ex pats, who would have travelled above 3rd.
Native Nigerians travelling might have been few and far between in those days, and I suspect they would have been the ones to travel 3rd or below. I'll be happy to be proved wrong though.
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  #5  
Old 11th June 2019, 20:59
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Originally Posted by Dickyboy View Post
Hi Berniemosh. I might be wrong, but my first thought is that there might not have been many 3rd class passengers. Most, I suspect would have been colonial ex pats, who would have travelled above 3rd.
Native Nigerians travelling might have been few and far between in those days, and I suspect they would have been the ones to travel 3rd or below. I'll be happy to be proved wrong though.
Hi there,
Thanks for the reply and you're right, these were native Nigerians - the national football squad of 18 players, on their first trip abroad. I'm just wondering how much worse than First Class their journey would have been. Did they have access to the higher decks? Would they have been able to meet up with their chairman, who was traveling First Class?
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  #6  
Old 12th June 2019, 00:04
eddyw eddyw is offline  
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From googling I see the team travelled on Apapa. Dickyboy is correct, Apapa had only 6 x 4berth cabins in 3rd class. These were down on E deck right aft (with lots of vibration from propellors presumably). On D deck above there was a small general purpose saloon and a small covered promenade area. (see deck plans - link in previous post). It seems special arrangements for exercise were made and the team were well received.
http://www.horebinternational.com/th...teams-uk-tour/
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  #7  
Old 12th June 2019, 00:59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyw View Post
From googling I see the team travelled on Apapa. Dickyboy is correct, Apapa had only 6 x 4berth cabins in 3rd class. These were down on E deck right aft (with lots of vibration from propellors presumably). On D deck above there was a small general purpose saloon and a small covered promenade area. (see deck plans - link in previous post). It seems special arrangements for exercise were made and the team were well received.
http://www.horebinternational.com/th...teams-uk-tour/
.
Great historical link!
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Old 12th June 2019, 07:12
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
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As mentioned - a great historical link from that era!

My own father was the appropriated pilot for Anchor Line at Liverpool at the same time. I have a vivid recollection of the occasion in 1954 (when I was aged eleven) and the MCC cricket team was travelling to Bombay. They travelled via Anchor Line, whose passenger accommodation aboard Cilicia, Circassia and Caledonia was all First Class. Sailing was at 1600 on a Saturday from Liverpool Landing Stage, with my Dad on board as far as Point Lynas , ETA 2000. When clear of The Bar, Dad was invited down to dinner in the saloon, with the MCC team.

The delight of my older brother and myself can readily be imagined when Dad subsequently arrived home with two miniature cricket bats, each signed by the entire MCC team. My guess is that these were goodwill hand-outs, carried in some quantity with them. I'm ashamed to say that my own prize has long-since been lost.

It is difficult to imagine today that any international football team would travel Third Class whilst their boss might enjoy the junkets of First Class - but I'm sure that it was entirely possible in earlier days, as described aboard the Apapa.
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  #9  
Old 12th June 2019, 08:59
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyw View Post
From googling I see the team travelled on Apapa. Dickyboy is correct, Apapa had only 6 x 4berth cabins in 3rd class. These were down on E deck right aft (with lots of vibration from propellors presumably). On D deck above there was a small general purpose saloon and a small covered promenade area. (see deck plans - link in previous post). It seems special arrangements for exercise were made and the team were well received.
http://www.horebinternational.com/th...teams-uk-tour/
.
Thanks again, love the detail about propeller vibration! I have a couple of odd questions you may or may not know the answers to. The tourists brought with them sacks of food such as yams, rice and shrimps - would they have had to keep these in their cabin, or would they have been stored elsewhere? Also, apparently the shipping line provided picture postcards showing the Apapa, do you know how the players would have got hold of them? And finally, where would third class passengers eat? Thanks again.
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  #10  
Old 12th June 2019, 14:30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by berniemosh View Post
Thanks again, love the detail about propeller vibration! I have a couple of odd questions you may or may not know the answers to. The tourists brought with them sacks of food such as yams, rice and shrimps - would they have had to keep these in their cabin, or would they have been stored elsewhere? Also, apparently the shipping line provided picture postcards showing the Apapa, do you know how the players would have got hold of them? And finally, where would third class passengers eat? Thanks again.
I imagine that the team would have travelled almost entirely in 3rd class, even though they were the national team. This might have left E D (The shipping company) in a bit of a cleft stick. Even if they had wanted to upgrade the team, the regular Ex Pat passengers, Think Raj type system, would have been very put out with having to travel and integrate with "The Natives" It's very much the way it was in those days.

As an aside, I did a couple of cruises on the Reina Del Mar from South Africa to South America in the mid 60s, (Apartite? days) And the very few "Coloured" & "Black" Passengers were very much discriminated against by the other passengers, but not by the crew, even in those days.

I expect they would have been given galley space to either prepare their own food, or have it cooked for them. The ship would have cold rooms and freezers available for the storage of food.
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  #11  
Old 12th June 2019, 20:42
eddyw eddyw is offline  
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Generally items "not required on voyage" would be stored in the baggage room. Food items could be accommodated specially by arrangement. Stewards , 'hotel' and galley department staff on ED ships were mostly Nigerian and Im sure would have been only too pleased to help. 3rd class was 'all found' and meals no doubt taken in the 3rd class saloon on D deck. Food on the ED ships included a lot of delicious W African cuisine so I'm sure the team would have been well catered for. Postcards were available on board I'm sure the pursers dept would have been happy to supply them. Dickyboy is right about the racism, the social distinctions among passengers reflected that of the colonial society they were part of. This is likely to have been been restrained/muted however given the 'official' sponsorship and endorsement of the team by the 'colonial powers that be'.

Last edited by eddyw; 12th June 2019 at 20:50..
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  #12  
Old 12th June 2019, 21:35
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Thanks very much for this, a lot of useful detail.
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  #13  
Old 12th June 2019, 21:38
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Thanks again Dickyboy - that's quite an eye opener, but v useful.
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  #14  
Old 12th June 2019, 23:13
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Originally Posted by berniemosh View Post
Thanks again Dickyboy - that's quite an eye opener, but v useful.
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  #15  
Old 16th June 2019, 09:12
berniemosh berniemosh is offline
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Just one more...

Just one more question. Could anyone tell me what happened when a ship arrived in Liverpool in those days. Would 1st Class passengers disembark first? Would they have packed their own baggage?How did baggage handlers get on board?And where would the 1st Class passenger (the chairman of the FA), meet up with the team (traveling 3rd Class) on board? I'm assuming they all would have had to go through customs and immigration etc
Oh, and would 3rd Class passengers have to carry their own luggage?
Thanks in advance.
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  #16  
Old 21st June 2019, 05:28
Kiwi Pom Kiwi Pom is offline  
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Mention of the APAPA brought back a few memories. As an apprentice I did four consecutive trips between 17/10/55 and 30/1/56 and another trip from 4/6/56 to 18/6/56. The last two of those trips was as acting 4th Officer.
Watch keeping was our main duties but I did have one unusual duty on the morning watch once we were in the tropics. The Apapa swimming pool was small but deep so for the Kiddies to use it my duty was to change into swim togs, get the level of the pool lowered to about 2ft, and keep an eye on them for an hour then get if filled up again for the adults. Of course with only a small level of water and any ship movement you got a good surge of water splashing from end to end hence the need for a lifeguard. Not a bad duty!
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Old 21st June 2019, 11:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Old Se Dog View Post
dickyboy - the correct spelling is apartheid - for the record this is the first time i have heard of any passenger being discriminated against on a union castle ship - especially if its a cruise ship - which the reina was - and galley space for the preparation of food? or have it cooked for them? never heard of it ! i stand correct if i have been misinformed - the attachments clearly show first cabin and tourist class in her days with pacific steam - and as a cruise ship for union castle - she only had single class status ! for the record - i have attached a not wanted on voyage baggage label
I DID say by the passengers, NOT the crew. The Reina was carrying a full compliment of South African passengers (One Class) They treated the Coloured/Black passengers like ****. Those same passengers set off many of the pyrotechnics from the lifeboats as well. That really did cause a fuss and litter. Worst two cruises I ever did on her.
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Last edited by Dickyboy; 21st June 2019 at 15:15..
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