Machinery Horrors - Page 4 - Ships Nostalgia
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  #76  
Old 9th May 2019, 21:42
ALBY2 ALBY2 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skilly57 View Post
Alby, the yard installed the Paxmans on the generator flat with a large engine-sized opening in the deck plate underneath each machine. There was a drainable drip tray fitted over this hole, which was easily removed when required. In the photos, the sump was removed by lowering down through this opening - it had developed a crack & needed repairs anyway, but also gives far better access to the c'shaft & bearings when not in the way.
The first survey we did on the first Paxman back around 1985 or 86 we had 3-foot high legs made (they fitted in between the bedplate & the resilient engine mounts) so we could lift the engines up, slide the legs in, and lower it onto them. This entailed uncoupling the Lawrence-Scott electromotive generator first.
This method lifted the c'case to a nice working height, but meant removing a lot of associated pipework, and also put the heads too high to work on.

The legs and the deck holes were the result of finding how awkward the V4 RPH Paxmans were to work with on a previous, smaller cement ship, the dev Ligar Bay.
Cheers,
Skilly
Hi Skilly, Richard Carr from the PaxmanHistory has asked where abouts these two engines are located and is it OK to share these photos with him. thanks Alby
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  #77  
Old 10th May 2019, 00:22
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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I am not so sure. Pornography is at risk of state control!
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  #78  
Old 10th May 2019, 05:27
skilly57 skilly57 is offline  
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Varley - luv it!!

And Alby, yes, not a problem.

These 2 generators are in mv Golden Bay II (keel laid 4th May 1978, Robb Caledon Yard No. 572, Dundee). From build until 2017 the ship was operated by one owner here in NZ, and I joined her in 1979, got off in March 2017, but also did do a few offshore jobs and other things during that period. Retired back to NZ from overseas work in 2015 & received a letter asking if I could 'fill in on their lovely bulk cement carrier for 2 weeks'! Yeah, right - ended up doing another 2 years on her, plus overhauling the engines/gearbox control systems again - a job I have done every 5 years since she was launched!

The ship is currently taking a load of cement from Aalborg to the Faroes I think. She carried over 11 million tonnes of cement around Australia & NZ in 38 years of service here and the current owners hope to get another 10 years with her.

Only a month ago the old man rang me for some help, so I am still involved a bit. I have all the running hours, history, photos etc from 1979 to 2017 for these engines. Maybe I should go to Richard Carr directly so as to see what is useful for him.
Cheers,
Skilly
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 02.05.17_The last NZ cargo loaded.jpg (131.5 KB, 24 views)
File Type: jpg 100714.11a_Golden Bay.jpg (131.7 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg arr tga a.JPG (127.6 KB, 19 views)

Last edited by skilly57; 10th May 2019 at 05:59..
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  #79  
Old 11th May 2019, 06:32
Tony Foot Tony Foot is offline
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@ Bob W.
Aussie navy still have the Hedemora in the subs, and all reports say they are a disaster.
I guess they can't get them out.
Why do navies never crosscheck with the Merchant Marine about equipment, I wonder.
BTW. The Aus navy's latest great plan is to build a bunch of French nuke sub design, fit them with diesel engines and try to frighten off the Chinese with them. Thank The Great Spirit climate change will destroy the world first!
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  #80  
Old 12th May 2019, 06:59
ALBY2 ALBY2 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skilly57 View Post
Varley - luv it!!

And Alby, yes, not a problem.

These 2 generators are in mv Golden Bay II (keel laid 4th May 1978, Robb Caledon Yard No. 572, Dundee). From build until 2017 the ship was operated by one owner here in NZ, and I joined her in 1979, got off in March 2017, but also did do a few offshore jobs and other things during that period. Retired back to NZ from overseas work in 2015 & received a letter asking if I could 'fill in on their lovely bulk cement carrier for 2 weeks'! Yeah, right - ended up doing another 2 years on her, plus overhauling the engines/gearbox control systems again - a job I have done every 5 years since she was launched!

The ship is currently taking a load of cement from Aalborg to the Faroes I think. She carried over 11 million tonnes of cement around Australia & NZ in 38 years of service here and the current owners hope to get another 10 years with her.

Only a month ago the old man rang me for some help, so I am still involved a bit. I have all the running hours, history, photos etc from 1979 to 2017 for these engines. Maybe I should go to Richard Carr directly so as to see what is useful for him.
Cheers,
Skilly
More great photos, I still amazed that a naval architect had the nous to mount the diesels in such a way that you could access the crankcase from below, certainly not like that on BP tankers. No problems contacting Richard Regards Alby2
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  #81  
Old 12th May 2019, 08:16
skilly57 skilly57 is offline  
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Alby2, it wasn't a naval architect that mounted them like that - it was a marine engineer - he was C/E on the original Golden Bay I, stood by dev Ligar Bay during building at Henry Robb's in Leith, then stayed on her as C/E until he came ashore as engineering super in 1971. He was then totally responsible for the design specs, machinery, crewing, etc of the Golden Bay II above. He would bring the preliminary drawings for mv GBII down to the ship we were still running (dev 'John Wilson', also built in Leith by Henry Robb), lay them on the table, and we all had the opportunity to give ideas & input. Length was determined by basin swing areas, draught by water available at the river bar harbours she was designed to service, and beam to fit the Lyttelton Dry Dock in NZ. She is transverse & longitudinally framed so as to enable her to sit aground whilst 50% loaded, and many of the scantlings are in excess of Lloyd's requirements, as is the rudder, which is 6% over spec and made her a beautiful steering ship.

This process eliminated almost all the gripes/inefficiencies we had experienced on the previous 3 bulk cement ships, and resulted in a vessel that could well run to 50 years of service. No one builds ships like this anymore!
With 150,000 hours on each M.E. (Ruston 12RK3CMs x 2, driving through a Renke-Tacke gearbox onto a single shaft), the crankshafts have yet to be touched, although the engines have eaten their way through a pile of liners, pistons, fuel pump guts, injectors, bearings & cylinder heads over the decades.

The cement machinery is all original except for the 4 x C-350 air compressors, which output 50 cu metres per minute, EACH, at 47 psi max (This is original spec, but replacements are nearly the same). Each is powered by a 300 hp electric motor (direct on-line start, so you have to let the main engine recover a bit before pushing the next start button!). The 1,600 kW PTO alternators (one driven off each main engine) can individually supply the power for the cargo machinery in port, and also drive the thrusters (3.5 ton thrust fwd & 4 ton aft), which enable the ship to turn in it's own length, as many ports we visited had no tugs available to assist in berthing, etc.

So really, the naval architects didn't get much say in how she went together. The credit should all go to the foresight of Arthur Graham Smith (RIP), of Wellington, NZ.

I have added a few photos:

1. Showing the 400 hp motor inside the rudder - powers the fully feathering 4-bladed prop of the Pleuger active rudder unit.

2. 1980 Guarantee docking, showing Pleuger, with active rudder at 85 degrees max angle - made for a very effective stern thruster, and as the emergency propulsion unit when driven by the 2 Paxmans.

3. 2007 docking, showing the Berg propeller that replaced the Stone Manganese prop in 2004.

4. 2004 - old prop & new prop! The SMM item was simple, but had design faults that caused blades to crack regularly/break off (Aug 1984). The new Berg prop was much smoother, and a knot faster for the same installed hp and 165 rpm shaft speed. The blades areas on both types are identical, but the skewed design has more of that area toward the outer circumference, so develops more thrust.

I contacted Richard direct - we had mailed each other a couple of years back when I supplied him with the original info re these Paxmans.
Cheers,

Skilly
Attached Images
File Type: jpg 400 hp ruddermotor.jpg (531.9 KB, 19 views)
File Type: jpg 1980_Guarantee docking_3.JPG (38.5 KB, 13 views)
File Type: jpg Plueger & Berg_2007 docking.jpg (241.6 KB, 15 views)
File Type: jpg 021_2004_SMM & Berg CPP.jpg (154.3 KB, 18 views)

Last edited by skilly57; 13th May 2019 at 00:58..
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  #82  
Old 12th May 2019, 10:40
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YM-Mundrabilla YM-Mundrabilla is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony Foot View Post
@ Bob W.
Aussie navy still have the Hedemora in the subs, and all reports say they are a disaster.
I guess they can't get them out.
Why do navies never crosscheck with the Merchant Marine about equipment, I wonder.
BTW. The Aus navy's latest great plan is to build a bunch of French nuke sub design, fit them with diesel engines and try to frighten off the Chinese with them. Thank The Great Spirit climate change will destroy the world first!
To do anything other than try to 'spin' out of the 'non-existent' problem would be an admission of a bum decision in the first place. Any admission of a problem would be, of course, politically incorrect!
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  #83  
Old 12th May 2019, 10:54
OilJiver OilJiver is online now  
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Skilly, great pics and really interesting posts.
Many thanks,
OJ
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  #84  
Old 7th August 2019, 12:38
oldgoat1947 oldgoat1947 is offline  
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Re HEDEMORA I sailed with them on one ship. they looked like a barrel with cylinder head on them 1200 rpm and noisy. We had a main bearing jack bolt work loose it fell between the connecting rod and the block smashing two cylinder liners and the L.O. pick up pipe the engine shut down. It ended up going ashore being flown back to Sweden for repairs and coming back 4 months later. In my 5 month trip I had two Generators in the ER for 10 days. and a Caterpillar on deck in a container. for Most of the Voyage. That and two MAK medium speed main Engines with a shaft geny and twin CPP's Character building as they say
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  #85  
Old 10th August 2019, 07:55
skilly57 skilly57 is offline  
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Bob (Post #84 ), I was given a guided tour through the Collins Class sub HMAS Farncombe in 2000. E.O. was telling me about the periscope & propeller problems (the Yanks reckon they could hear these sub's props in San Diego, while the sub was till in Australian waters!), when we eventually came to the engine room. Three Horrible Hedamoras evenly spaced across the compartment, but No.3 had just had a pump fall off after the ever-present severe engine vibration sheared all the retaining studs at the aft end of the entablature. Hedamoras are selected for subs as they are designed to run naturally aspirated, not turbo charged, for sub applications. Some diesels just cannot develop power unless they are pressure charged. On the other hand, some diesels cannot develop power even when they are pressure charged!!

Down aft, there was an interesting arrangement of 4 ship's stabilizer units, all set with the blades at 45 degrees above & below horizontal, rather than vertical & horizontal. This enabled the sub to retain some control for diving & turning even if 3 units had been damaged.
Skilly
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Last edited by skilly57; 10th August 2019 at 08:11..
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  #86  
Old 5th September 2019, 16:45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Oatey View Post
The Paxman manual says something about "turn the engine upside down" for major crankcase work. Good luck with that!
We actually had the capsizing gear to do that but don't recall using it. I do remember the cylinder liners were eaten by erosion on the water side on the 1200 rpm machines. This was eventually sort of cured by chrome plating the affected area. We did however have one ship where they ran at 900 rpm with no hint of that problem
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  #87  
Old 5th September 2019, 20:57
OilJiver OilJiver is online now  
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Not too much of a problem, on the 1200 rpm (dry liner) machines I worked with. (Plenty other stuff mind)
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  #88  
Old 9th September 2019, 21:42
dannic dannic is online now  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Gibbs View Post
We actually had the capsizing gear to do that but don't recall using it. I do remember the cylinder liners were eaten by erosion on the water side on the 1200 rpm machines. This was eventually sort of cured by chrome plating the affected area. We did however have one ship where they ran at 900 rpm with no hint of that problem
Rolls Royce DV8 engines on Port Chalmers, and no doubt others, had cradle either on deck or down No.7 upper tween deck for maintenance, depending on weather forecast! Lift short engine out and turn over to change main bearings.

Dannic
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  #89  
Old 10th September 2019, 09:01
Engine Serang Engine Serang is offline  
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Cradle be damned, we turned the engine using chain blocks and did liners, bearings etc on our knees. In the generator flat between the air compressor and the OWS. Men.
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