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  #1  
Old 31st May 2014, 19:46
Alistair Macnab's Avatar
Alistair Macnab Alistair Macnab is offline  
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Cargo Handling Gear....

I must admit, that like all other Bank Line contributors to this site, I have come to the point of "nothing left to talk about"!

So here's something new to discuss if any of you are up to it. I see that the newest Bank Boats were fitted with so-called derrick cranes.

I recall Captain Rodgers telling me that they were the best thing since sliced bread, even better than real cranes.

Was that so? One of my stevedore friends here in Houston said that he chartered one of these boats to load oil well equipment to the Arabian Gulf. He told me that the "Erman" hatches were a problem as were the swinging booms. Was he just the usual stevedore moaner, after all, he was from Leith and an ex- Ben Line man?
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  #2  
Old 31st May 2014, 20:06
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alistair Macnab View Post
I must admit, that like all other Bank Line contributors to this site, I have come to the point of "nothing left to talk about"!

So here's something new to discuss if any of you are up to it. I see that the newest Bank Boats were fitted with so-called derrick cranes.

I recall Captain Rodgers telling me that they were the best thing since sliced bread, even better than real cranes.

Was that so? One of my stevedore friends here in Houston said that he chartered one of these boats to load oil well equipment to the Arabian Gulf. He told me that the "Erman" hatches were a problem as were the swinging booms. Was he just the usual stevedore moaner, after all, he was from Leith and an ex- Ben Line man?
If we are thinking of the same thing Alistair, they were Velle derricks, which we used to call speed cranes when I worked on the Mersey Docks. A bit of a nightmare to rig, they were very good when you got the hang of them, and a good team of deckhands could work cargo almost as fast as a quayside crane.
Didnt Tenchbank have them?
Regards,
Pat
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  #3  
Old 31st May 2014, 20:45
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Alistair Macnab Alistair Macnab is offline  
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Velle Dericks.....

Pat.....
That's the word that eluded me! Velle Derricks. And the "Tenchbank" had them.
Thanks and Kind Regards,
Alistair
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  #4  
Old 31st May 2014, 22:20
lakercapt lakercapt is online now  
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If you had to rig a new wire for them you had better make sure the fox was on correctly as then it was a real nightmare.
Get the manual out and try to follow it!!!
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  #5  
Old 1st June 2014, 00:23
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Velle derricks,all too modern for me,16 years in bank line and good old union purchase rigs,after that I went on to ferries and bow and stern doors much easier,
jim
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  #6  
Old 1st June 2014, 09:10
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I suspect the stevedore's aversion to Velle derricks was more to do with the fact they only required one winchman rather than the two used with Union Purchase gear. Seemingly the Australian unions insisted on the same number of men being employed, shades of the "Clouder" and "Chief Justice"
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Last edited by Duncan112; 1st June 2014 at 18:00..
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  #7  
Old 1st June 2014, 11:13
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Did not have to be rigged for use (compared with union purchase)fully auto with joy-stick operation for spot loading for one man operation over-side and hatch(cranes need some one overside/hatch for directions).Thats the theory any way, without taking unions in to consideration.
PB.JPG

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  #8  
Old 1st June 2014, 18:11
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Originally Posted by A.D.FROST View Post
Did not have to be rigged for use (compared with union purchase)fully auto with joy-stick operation for spot loading for one man operation over-side and hatch(cranes need some one overside/hatch for directions).Thats the theory any way, without taking unions in to consideration.
Attachment 48906
My, that's an awful lot of string.
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  #9  
Old 1st June 2014, 19:26
China hand China hand is offline  
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They worked well on the Dacebank, apart from those little winches in the tops (they tended to dry out quickly). The fish class didn't have ermin hatches, the Corabortions did, and they were truly absobluddyeffingawful.
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  #10  
Old 1st June 2014, 19:27
Pilot mac Pilot mac is offline  
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Great for spot loading and especially good for beams and pontoons, however for certain cargoes union purchase still faster.
Ermin hatches that I sailed with were a strange 'concertina' affair and I can confirm China Hands sentiments!

Dave

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  #11  
Old 1st June 2014, 20:17
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I was workingin Cammell Lairds in 1972 when they built three cargo liners for PSNC, Orbita, Ortega and Orduna.
These had Velle Derricks, and I was working in a crane on the wet basin wall, with the riggers when they set about rigging the first of them.
Lairds had a very good team of highly experienced and time served riggers, but there was a hell of a lot of head scratching and false starts before they eventually got the rig right. After that, they steamed ahead with the rest, but that first one took them best part of a day to do.
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Old 2nd June 2014, 06:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A.D.FROST View Post
Did not have to be rigged for use (compared with union purchase)fully auto with joy-stick operation for spot loading for one man operation over-side and hatch(cranes need some one overside/hatch for directions).Thats the theory any way, without taking unions in to consideration.
Attachment 48906
When in Brooklyn (NY) on the Somerset in 1967, the longshoremen managed to bring the whole thing down while trying, if I remember correctly, to rig up a union purchase to a house fall over the shed door.
Ian
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  #13  
Old 2nd June 2014, 10:06
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Here is a picture of the velle derrick rig. Complicated to sy the least
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File Type: jpg velle derrick.jpg (30.1 KB, 129 views)
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  #14  
Old 2nd June 2014, 10:32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pat Kennedy View Post
Here is a picture of the velle derrick rig. Complicated to sy the least
This is not a 'Velle' but a British equivalent ie.'Thompson High-Speed Crane' as on the PORT CAROLINE & CHAMERS and Standard "Clyde Ship"
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  #15  
Old 2nd June 2014, 10:46
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I think it is well proven that's why they are the not used today. Crane S--t all over them.
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  #16  
Old 2nd June 2014, 11:31
backsplice backsplice is offline  
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Te "Benstac" had a couple of them ...we lost one over the side in H K harbour just after teatime one night it landed in a junk apparently it was lowered to low we were called out to re-rig it ...getting the gear out of the foc,sle was a job and a half from memory it was 8 or 10 strand wire and bloody long but l always liked them .....the rest of the running gear was AEG one man could batten down and drop (lower) the derricks single handed using a joystick ....great days ???
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  #17  
Old 3rd June 2014, 23:29
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Originally Posted by A.D.FROST View Post
This is not a 'Velle' but a British equivalent ie.'Thompson High-Speed Crane' as on the PORT CAROLINE & CHAMERS and Standard "Clyde Ship"
No sir, that is a Velle, distinguished by the T-head, and though not seen here, the swivel at the heel.

This arrangement, coupled with the direct and crossed pennants connecting the topping lifts to the 'T' killed any swing in the load quite effectively.

The 12 tonne sets I sailed with on the Baknes class had a simpler topping lift arrangement, in that one port topping lift wire led to one barrel of the port winch, the other went direct from the masthead to one barrel of the starboard winch.

The topping lift winches were fore and aft, rather than athwartships as shown.

The starboard topping lift was vice versa.

Rigging them was quite straightforward, but unless the derrick was stowed fore and aft, there was an uneven number of turns on the topping lift drums that had to be allowed for.

The ones I knew had an extra winch, wires and blocks to allow for grabs to be used, which complicated things further.

The 30 tonne Thompson derricks, fitted on the Clyde class 'Sig Ragne' though a similar arrangement, had a 'ram's head' at the end and no swivel at the heel.

The topping lifts were similar, but the fall had an additional block at the head, which could be removed and shackled in at the heel to double the speed and halve the load.

I think their main attraction was that they were composed of wires, winches and blocks, with easily replaceable components, whereas the cranes of the day were complicated and less reliable.

Last edited by randcmackenzie; 3rd June 2014 at 23:37.. Reason: clarity
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  #18  
Old 4th June 2014, 08:03
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Ever sail on the Baknes Roddy ?.
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  #19  
Old 4th June 2014, 13:12
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Originally Posted by China hand View Post
They worked well on the Dacebank, apart from those little winches in the tops (they tended to dry out quickly). The fish class didn't have ermin hatches, the Corabortions did, and they were truly absobluddyeffingawful.
Hello China, I've noticed that the Corabank Class doesn't seem to be remembered too fondly in several other threads. Can you enlighten those of us who didn't have any experience of the class why they seem to be disliked?
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  #20  
Old 4th June 2014, 20:02
China hand China hand is offline  
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Bones,
The Corabank class were loved or hated. I've never met anyone who sailed on them who did not have a strong opinion one way or the other. I only sailed in three of them, Moraybank (lots), Forthbank and Meadowbank, as mate, then master. I found them very unloveable ships.
This thread is about cargo gear: what ships they were for that! In an era when cutting crew manning was at least on the horizon, they were not exactly economical ships to handle, gear wise. Derricks a la union purchase, a single crane, a set of twinnable tandem cranes that very rarely did what they were told, an old fashioned jumbo that knocked out nearly everything else if it was rigged.
Five different sets of hatch covers: Macgregors, ermins, pontoons, tank lids, all with problems.
Ships designed to do lots of things but did them all not too well.
I haven't even started on deep tanks and THAT story.

But they lasted thirty years, so maybe it's just me
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  #21  
Old 4th June 2014, 23:51
randcmackenzie randcmackenzie is offline  
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Baknes

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Originally Posted by John Cassels View Post
Ever sail on the Baknes Roddy ?.
Yes, John. I was mate April to September 1971. We took her over from Jebsen's at Le Havre.

She was about a year old, totally unmaintained apart from some spray painting, and, to make matters a little more interesting, with all four fall wires on the aft grab gear cut off in the middle using an angle grinder.

Quick experience on re-rigging that one, the grab was in the hatch on top of the cargo.

Though there were many issues on deck, her main problems all stemmed from the engine room.

Best regards,

Roddie.
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  #22  
Old 5th June 2014, 09:07
IBlenkinsopp IBlenkinsopp is offline  
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I must admit, that like all other Bank Line contributors to this site, I have come to the point of "nothing left to talk about"!
I guess you're right Alistair, I have spent longer talking about being at sea, that I actually was at sea!

Eddie B.
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  #23  
Old 5th June 2014, 09:39
John Cassels John Cassels is offline  
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Must have joined her shortly after you left Roddie. Did a A guy called Watson
relieve you ?.
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Old 5th June 2014, 12:05
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Harrisons (Clyde) Vennachar and British Monarch were fitted out with Velle Derricks. We had to strengthen the brackets on the mast at the heel of the derrick and we also fitted self-righting blocks at the "business end" as the originals kept flipping over.
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Old 5th June 2014, 19:34
China hand China hand is offline  
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Trying to spot containers with ships gear whilst doing weird things with deeptanks and getting some interesting trim/list combinations was always a delight and a memory to be treasured.
We did a spot test on the new sockets (in drydock) and it all went wonderfully.
Super wanted to do it again when we got to the down under end, but afloat and with about 5 metres trim.... Yuk.
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