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  #26  
Old 1st February 2020, 18:09
Jim Glover Jim Glover is offline  
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steam any day
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  #27  
Old 1st February 2020, 19:59
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Good to see a thread leap thirteen years , there were some good one back then.
No argument , for pleasure, perfection, peace and quiet steam was the theme but alas money intervenes and we had what was necessary over the later years.

Bob
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  #28  
Old 2nd February 2020, 00:06
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howardang howardang is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthechill View Post
For the ultimate buttock-clenching experience I reckon Cunards ACL ships "Atlantic Causeway" and "Atlantic Conveyor" took some beating! Two roof-fired Foster-Wheeler boilers operating at 900 p.s.i. and around 950F superheat certainly kept your mind on the job! Power was supplied by two miniscule AEI turbines whizzing round at 12500 r.p.m. driving the alternators! Feed-pumps were Weirs TWL (Turbine/Water-Lubricated)!!! The ultimate fiendishness was that the whole plot was automated to a very high degree and this was quite something! Rather than using electronic automation the powers-that-be went for pneumatic so, if you lost the air-supply, everything fell over! (In all fairness there were 3 air-compressors so total loss of air was extremely rare). However when things did fall over the resulting chaos happened very rapidly! One of the MOST memorable falling-overs was when the superheat safety-valve fell-off the main steam-pipe, on the for'd boiler on "Conveyor" when we were doing around 24 kts! Now THAT was an attention grabber! The noise in the control-room (about twenty feet away from the fallen-off safety-valve) was absolutely horrendous!!!! Yes sir! "Interesting" ships!!!
Speaking of pneumatic systems, I have a memory of a mechanic on Causeway who was disciplined for some offence and told that he would be leaving the ship on arrival in the UK. He was overheard muttering to someone that be was going to chose his moment and get behind the desks in the contrio, room and switch round as many pipes as possible. I seem to remember that from then on he was watched like a hawk until he went down the gangway!

Howard
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  #29  
Old 2nd February 2020, 10:10
Laurie Ridyard Laurie Ridyard is offline  
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I was on deck, but I'll stick my bit in here.....

I sailed on mostly Doxfords, but as a Deck App., I did one trip on
S.S. " Treglisson ", a triple expansion with exhaust steam turbine steamer;it's last trip.

It was probably one of the last of it's type, and Hains sold it on in February, 1960.

I spent some time down the ER and got to operating the controls on both motor and steam ships.

In 1967 ,I joined Metcalfe's S.S. " Dunelmia "as 2/0; but that was such a horrible rust bucket I only stayed 6 days. I think it was the last deep sea triple expansion vessel registered in the UK.

ATB

Laurie
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  #30  
Old 4th February 2020, 18:21
david freeman david freeman is online now  
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Just drifting and dreaming. In the 12.000dwt or 16.000dwt in the BP Tanker fleet of the 60's, were basically Motorships: However the auxiliaries apart from the DC Generators {Diesel powered 350KW?}, were in fact steam up and downers weirs single cylinder pumps-Steam from the 2 auxiliary scotch boilers 110psi, and I believe a basic steam doubl expansion emergency genny 75KW.dc. 110V.
Of course memory plays tricks, and this could be all balls???
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  #31  
Old 4th February 2020, 20:00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by david freeman View Post
Just drifting and dreaming. In the 12.000dwt or 16.000dwt in the BP Tanker fleet of the 60's, were basically Motorships: However the auxiliaries apart from the DC Generators {Diesel powered 350KW?}, were in fact steam up and downers weirs single cylinder pumps-Steam from the 2 auxiliary scotch boilers 110psi, and I believe a basic steam doubl expansion emergency genny 75KW.dc. 110V.
Of course memory plays tricks, and this could be all balls???
My first ship, Harrison's Clyde 'British Monarch' was Diesel with all steam auxilliaries including the little DC generators.
My fantasy of operating a triple expansion main engine was never fulfilled and subsequent trips were steam turbine.
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  #32  
Old 5th February 2020, 00:23
dannic dannic is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Philthechill View Post
For the ultimate buttock-clenching experience I reckon Cunards ACL ships "Atlantic Causeway" and "Atlantic Conveyor" took some beating! Two roof-fired Foster-Wheeler boilers operating at 900 p.s.i. and around 950F superheat certainly kept your mind on the job! Power was supplied by two miniscule AEI turbines whizzing round at 12500 r.p.m. driving the alternators! Feed-pumps were Weirs TWL (Turbine/Water-Lubricated)!!! The ultimate fiendishness was that the whole plot was automated to a very high degree and this was quite something! Rather than using electronic automation the powers-that-be went for pneumatic so, if you lost the air-supply, everything fell over! (In all fairness there were 3 air-compressors so total loss of air was extremely rare). However when things did fall over the resulting chaos happened very rapidly! One of the MOST memorable falling-overs was when the superheat safety-valve fell-off the main steam-pipe, on the for'd boiler on "Conveyor" when we were doing around 24 kts! Now THAT was an attention grabber! The noise in the control-room (about twenty feet away from the fallen-off safety-valve) was absolutely horrendous!!!! Yes sir! "Interesting" ships!!!
Yes was on Conveyor as cadet, back at college talking to P&O cadets who had been on Canberra etc, about how quiet steamships were - had to disagree!!
Next forty years motorships but often with turbo generators, superheated, cargo pumps etc but still had to do training record book to get endorsement a couple of years ago to work on steam recip!!

Dannic
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  #33  
Old 5th February 2020, 00:57
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The one tool I used most during my apprentiship was a scraper, the type of engine I worked on most of this time were reciprocating steam engines as fitted to the Loch class frigates and to the bird class minesweepers , most of the ship's engine trials I went on were steam engined and when I came to go to sea there was nary a steamer in sight!
Motor ships soon illustrated the comforts of the former power but that's progress I guess,

Bob
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  #34  
Old 6th February 2020, 10:51
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Tim Gibbs Tim Gibbs is offline
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Philthechill's description of the Atlantic Causeway is very similar to my experience on ACT2 except for the 24 knots! Things did seem to go wrong in microseconds. One second everything was fine(ish) and the next there was no water in the boilers ..... and we no electro- feed pump to quickly restore control. And testing the overspeed trip on the 12,000 rpm T/A sets ...... not good for the underpants.
Perhaps the 75LB6 Doxfords weren't to bad after all .. except when a fuel valve stuck open. On one occasion the resulting explosion blew the relief valve uptake pipe off its flange and broke the spring in two place.
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  #35  
Old 9th February 2020, 15:16
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Tim Gibbs Tim Gibbs is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Gibbs View Post
Philthechill's description of the Atlantic Causeway is very similar to my experience on ACT2 except for the 24 knots! Things did seem to go wrong in microseconds. One second everything was fine(ish) and the next there was no water in the boilers ..... and we no electro- feed pump to quickly restore control. And testing the overspeed trip on the 12,000 rpm T/A sets ...... not good for the underpants.
Perhaps the 75LB6 Doxfords weren't to bad after all .. except when a fuel valve stuck open. On one occasion the resulting explosion blew the relief valve uptake pipe off its flange and broke the spring in two place.
Actually on ACT2 a couple of things did happen slowly - neither of them good ;
-the vacuum would slowly decrease over a few days but then start to recover before it tripped the plant.
- the daily feed water consumption would increase during the passage but then return to an acceptable rate at the start of the return passage.
Despite much investigation, we never fathomed out what was going on.
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Last edited by Tim Gibbs; 9th February 2020 at 15:20.. Reason: Typo / finger trouble
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  #36  
Old 9th February 2020, 17:17
Steve Hodges Steve Hodges is offline  
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As a bit of an aside to this " Motor or Steam" discussion, I note that the United States training ship "Empire State" still seems to be going strong at the grand old age of 58. She is single-screw steam turbine with two Foster Wheeler D-type boilers, original as far as I know, and so pretty similar to the sort of plant that I first sailed with nearly half a century ago. Unsurprisingly, I understand she is scheduled for replacement - but I wonder if a motor ship would have been so long-lived?
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  #37  
Old 13th February 2020, 06:31
wl745 wl745 is offline  
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Not a sea going type but travelled the world attending to steam /diesel and gas turbines.So I found your comments very interesting!!I worked in Zambia on a power plant where the equipment was dragged out by ox cart in the late thirties and was still running in the mid seventies ...very high maintenance!
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  #38  
Old 13th February 2020, 09:38
duncs duncs is offline  
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I remember(I had just joined) on the collier SS Deptford, before sailing from Battersea PS, where we were bound for, was told same abba. Didn't have a clue where that was. Back to my room and wait for sailing. After a couple of hours, nothing happening, I went up to the bridge. Bloody hell, we were clearing the Thames. Felt nothing with the steam engines.
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  #39  
Old 13th February 2020, 17:56
stevekelly10 stevekelly10 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim Gibbs View Post
Actually on ACT2 a couple of things did happen slowly - neither of them good ;
-the vacuum would slowly decrease over a few days but then start to recover before it tripped the plant.
- the daily feed water consumption would increase during the passage but then return to an acceptable rate at the start of the return passage.
Despite much investigation, we never fathomed out what was going on.
Some strange things happen on steam ships ! I sailed on 2 identical ULCC's. It was decided to replace the pneumatic Bailey mini line boiler controls with a new up to date electro\pneumatic system due to the cost of spares of the Bailey system. The first ship was done, the Stena King ! After it was done, every ballast passage when you started the IG scrubber pump, the port boiler water level dropped as the feed inlet valve would shut ??? and you had to take manual control of the valve ! Once the scrubber pump was stopped everything returned to normal ? despite numerous investigations the fault was never found ! Consequently the second ship was never converted, the ship I was on and we got a load of second hand Bailey mini line pares !
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  #40  
Old 14th February 2020, 01:01
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Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
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NITC's Alvand was refitted with electronic (pulse) controllers for boiler management generally during extensive drydocking in Sembawang in the early 90s. Much weirdness ensued. My solution (not Haven automation's as they claimed) was to swap the power supply to DC (basically the battery supply) to divorce them from possible mains borne interference.
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  #41  
Old 14th February 2020, 01:13
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Although only three years at sea, I suspect that, when manoeuvering, we had a trusted fireman doing the boilers.

As for Bailey boards
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  #42  
Old 14th February 2020, 02:08
blueprint2002 blueprint2002 is offline  
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From another perspective, as viewed on board warships on which I have served:
A 30-year-old “Black Swan” class sloop (WW2 vintage) was one of the earliest, a twin-screw ship with single-reduction, geared steam turbines taking saturated steam at just 225psi from two Admiralty 3-drum boilers. Only two 100kw turbo generators, steam reciprocating engines for other auxiliaries: FD fans, main circulators, steering and anchor windlass. Up-and-down, (direct-acting) steam pumps for everything else: FO, LO, feed water and so on. The evaporator had an extraordinary triple pump: three parallel pump plungers, crossheads linked by a rocking beam, all operated by a single steam cylinder.
The only automatic devices on the ship were the feed regulators and the feed controllers; even the turbine gland steam was hand-controlled, though it didn’t take long to learn the art of adjusting the valve to give the faintest whiff of steam at the HP turbine forward gland. But practically every other gland leaked, some more and some less, so feed consumption was sometimes more than the one evaporator could cope with. In which case, the fresh water situation also quickly became critical.
Open-front boilers, so there were air-locks at the boiler room entry hatches (still working perfectly after all those years), and who even thought about emergency escape arrangements? Burning Furnace Fuel Oil (similar to HFO), the registers soon acquired a glowing, lumpy ring of clinker, which had to be cleared manually, using a kind of poker, about twice each watch, hopefully without damaging the surrounding brickwork.
But my abiding memory is of the double blow-down of the evaporator every middle watch, and the astonishing quantity of scale that had to be swept out into buckets which were then hauled up, manually of course, to be emptied over the side. Well, it was sea salt anyway, so no retrospective guilt feelings about polluting the ocean. The bilge water was another matter, always emulsified with the FO and LO that never stopped seeping through the pump and valve glands.
For all that, rated shaft RPM was still achievable, briefly: maybe a testament to the longevity of the steam plant?
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