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Historical Warships Birkenhead

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  #51  
Old 10th May 2008, 16:56
yorky jim's Avatar
yorky jim yorky jim is offline  
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i was there in march this year,and i found it very difficlt to get any where near the ships,but this was my best shoot.
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  #52  
Old 11th May 2008, 11:26
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vchiu vchiu is offline  
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Thank you Chris and Jim

I can't understand why such a restrictive policy. Hopefully it seems they put some bilge pumps in action, as Jim's picture was showing some list

Cheers
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  #53  
Old 25th May 2008, 22:56
Graham01 Graham01 is offline  
 
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Hi All

I am a new poster to this forum so please excuse me if I may of overlooked something when reading it before I registered,

I will do a short introduction here as I want to ask a few questions on the HMS BRONINGTON but also say a little bit about myself as well to quantify who I am and what we are trying to do.

My full name is Graham Pickles, I am at present living in Hemlington near Middlesbrough and for anyone who knows the area I live in a good part :-) I have a Nautical History Society which at the moment is trying to save the HMS KELLINGTON in Stockton, We are at the moment in a position where we have secured meetings with the Council and forewarding our business plan to them for our project. This is where the BRONINGTON comes in. Firstly I have tried to find out latest information n this ship from the local council press offices and associations as well as private people, and I have not got one reply from any of them. Actually that is a bit unfair as I have received replies from members of another board regarding the ship but not from the people who should know.

I also notice from posts here that a great amount of secrecy seems to be in place regarding the BRONINGTON, Does anyone feel this may be as they are dismantling her and selling on pieces worth money? This would also account why I cannot find an information from the council etc.

We are trying to not only preserve but fully restore these ships as well as giving them a great opportunity for the future to not only sail again but educate at the same time in a unique way which we have been in talks sorting out.

I also have to agree with many of the posts, Our heritage is been sold down rive ( sorry for the pun not intended ) It would seem that the nautical part of Great Briton should be forgotten, I feel we should through groups societies and individuals let our voices be heard and show not just the Government but also press councils and the Developers that we will not stand for any more of our ships been scrapped to make way for a building or buildings that will be probably only a white elephant in a couple of years and torn down in the way of improvement.

The younger generation of today are accused of all sorts of things, and OK there is some of them who deserve to be classed in this way but what of the ones who are truly interested in history and the past. the ones who ask of there parents and grand parents what they did in the war or service. We will soon be unable to show them any of the older ships which saved and served our country or worked in order to make us a country to be reckoned with,

I have books full of information on past ships which I am able to find out about there history, but in most cases as in the ton class am unable to go see a good specimen. We are trying to alter that but getting no where on the BRONINGTON.

What I truly cannot understand is why the people who are supposed to matter, the council, Peel docks etc and the media do not want to discuss it with us or even tell us the latest position of this ship. I thought we had a hard time with the Kellington but at least we could get answers and do something.

I apologies for going on in this and I would hope someone can point me in the right direction to maybe help. or if anyone has any photo's hey could allow me to see I would be most apreciated they can be internal external old or new.

Regards
Graham Pickles

Last edited by Graham01; 25th May 2008 at 22:57.. Reason: Adding a sentance
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  #54  
Old 26th May 2008, 07:23
Graham01 Graham01 is offline  
 
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HI

Thanks for the reply but for some reason I cannot see it on the board but email notification says it is here??????.

HI Santos, many thanks as I say for the reply which was as follows.

"I don't think that at this moment in time, parts of BRONINGTON are being sold off etc. I think that Wirral Borough Council and Peel Holdings just dont know what to do with the ships, except that they dont want them they are not part of their plans."

You could be correct in that, We had the same trouble with the Kellington as parts disappeared and blamed on the vandalism which seems to be very selective, plus apparently our Vandals except for the fire damage use correct tools. and pieces of pipes that matter are the only ones missing apparently. I also agree that the people in the know do not know what to do with them, What grieves me is that they will not even reply to mails which we have sent nor does the media there, a rather strange blanket secrecy seems to be the order of the day. If they will not talk or reply how can anyone help or put ideas foreword ?

"Personally I think that they are concerned about adverse publicity, so they dont want the public to see any decline in the vessels and also they are perhaps hoping that if they are hidden away longer enough, people will forget about them and then they can be disposed of without publicity."

Again if this is the reason and I have no reason to disagree with you on it as it is feasible, surely the lack of interest shown to people who may be able t help will only cause more adverse publ;icity which I am sure they do not want anymore. The problem we had here was the fact they where hell bent on scrapping but due to the position of the Kellington it could not be hidden away, although after saying this a lot of things went on behind the prying eyes of public, Scaremongering was and is still been used and only adverse publicity to words the ship is reported not the good publicity or even hopes of Saviour.

"I dont know other than to say its a very sad and trying time for anyone trying to preserve anything nautical at the moment. Developers seem to think that maritime history is not a part of today anymore and will not enhance any maritime historical developements. This I think is a big mistake and that they should be remembering what made ports like Liverpool and Birkenhead big and try and capitalise on that rather than destroy it."

I totally agree with you here. At the end of the day it all boils down to fat cat profit. It is a big mistake they forget about heritage as one day we will not have any left for the nautical world to look at. Maybe we should listen more to the elements the Dutch and other people tell us and do. Not just in the preservation of old ships etc but in the defenses of our land. But that is another story for another day and quiet possibly another thread or board.
***************
Regards Graham Pickles

There may be other replies also, but you will not receive any more notifications until you visit the forum again.

All the best,
Ships Nostalgia

Last edited by Graham01; 26th May 2008 at 07:26.. Reason: Spelling
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  #55  
Old 26th May 2008, 18:56
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Graham,
I agree wholeheartedly with your sentiments on the venerable old ladies that have been left to rot in Birkenhead Docks, as you and Santos quite rightly say, it's all about profit and the big , cash strapped local councils will be unwilling to provide cash to save our maritime heritage - it's just not 'en-vogue' at the moment, far better putting money into lucrative Urban regeneration schemes (which strangely enough closed the Historic Ships Collection here in the Wirral in the first place).
Anyway I will leave the politics of this alone as it is a very emotive subject with me (and many others on this website), having Served in several Ton Class Ships and a short spell in HMS Plymouth on loan back in the '80's.
I think HMS Bronington is materially in a very bad way, prior to her being closed as an attraction (on HSE grounds) she had some problems with leaks on the upper deck (like most Tons Broni has wooden decks) particularly around the Focsle area, this has progressively got worse and a fair amount of water has penetrated her decks and is on pooled on 2 Deck - causing the rather ungainly list she currently has. (This was confirmed in a TCA sponsored survey last year)
I think Santos will agree that she has sported this list for at least 12 months - god knows what she now looks like internally - but it can't be pleasant.
If you are having trouble getting anything out of the authorities, It may be worthwhile speaking to the Ton Class Association, I know they did a fair bit of work with Broni and Kellington/Iveston and they do have a fair amount of contacts to call upon as well as a vested interest in seeing the remaining Ton class ships preserved, there are not many left in the UK now - They also have HRH the Prince of Wales as Patron, he was a previous CO of Broni back in the 70's (with my father in law as Leading Chef).
The President of the association is Admiral Lippiet who is another ex Ton man.
The TCA website is www.tca2000.co.uk - If you go to the website and select TCA committee there is a link to the email address of each of the key members, it may be worthwhile firing an email to them of your plans, maybe they could help or point you in the right direction?
Let me wish you all the very best in what you are trying to do.
Fair winds and following seas.....
Yours Aye
Tom
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  #56  
Old 27th May 2008, 07:33
Graham01 Graham01 is offline  
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomvart View Post
Graham,
Anyway I will leave the politics of this alone as it is a very emotive subject with me (and many others on this website),
HI Tom

I could not agree more with you, Politics is a very emotive subject with me as well especially as I am battling with it most days with the Kellington.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomvart View Post
think HMS BRONINGTON is materially in a very bad way, prior to her being closed as an attraction (on HSE grounds) she had some problems with leaks on the upper deck (like most Tons Broni has wooden decks) particularly around the Focsle area, this has progressively got worse and a fair amount of water has penetrated her decks and is on pooled on 2 Deck - causing the rather ungainly list she currently has. (This was confirmed in a TCA sponsored survey last year)
I think Santos will agree that she has sported this list for at least 12 months - god knows what she now looks like internally - but it can't be pleasant.
I am led to believe this by reports I have been issued with from people who are not associated with the owners or councils etc. And yes the wood decks are a problem, I am at moment trying to source wood decking for the Kellington and Hull planks. ( politics again make this harder as a lot of mahogany for the hull planking comes from Africa ) The Kellington has the same problem here with a leaky deck section from the Focsle, But as we are going to renew all her decks we are not too worried. apart from the obvious work involved of course and cost.

The Kellington also has a list to Port of a few degrees, but again we can soon sort that it is not a worry to us. What I did not know was the TCA had sponsored a survey last year, I will have to get back in touch with Rik or Bob regarding this,

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomvart View Post
If you are having trouble getting anything out of the authorities, It may be worthwhile speaking to the Ton Class Association, I know they did a fair bit of work with Broni and Kellington/Iveston and they do have a fair amount of contacts to call upon as well as a vested interest in seeing the remaining Ton class ships preserved, there are not many left in the UK now - They also have HRH the Prince of Wales as Patron, he was a previous CO of Broni back in the 70's (with my father in law as Leading Chef).
Thanks for the pointer here Tom and yes the TCA is a big help , I have been in touch with them on many occasions with ref to the Kellington and got good solid advice and help from members there, I also asked about the Bron and was again given advise and help by members. I do have to stress here though that the TCA is not associated with us or our projects as we are not in association with them. But they are a great and knowledgeable association who I hold high esteem for.

I am still totally staggered that no one from the Liverpool or Birkenhead council is prepared to do a simple thing like answer a email. As for the press it would seem they may be gagged on the subject as even they do not reply or acknowledge mails.

Thanks for the well wishes Tom they are apreciated.

Graham
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  #57  
Old 31st May 2008, 22:32
jeffuk13 jeffuk13 is offline  
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Hi even though I never served on Hms Plymouth, I spent time on Her sister Berwick, I'm in the position to rescue her but just dont know where to start, I am willing to purchase her and have her towed to Sheerness and maybe restored, please help folks with who to contact etc
cheers
Jeff
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  #58  
Old 1st June 2008, 07:27
Graham01 Graham01 is offline  
 
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HI Jeffuk13

Basically it depends where you are now, To recover a ship is not a easy task as I am sure people here will tell you. It is a matter of contacting many people. With your proposed project you have the added problem unless you are better than I am as to contacting someone who knows about the ship, has authority and can help, I have wrote to just about everyone regarding the BRONINGTON and got NO reply from anyone in authority including council and press. You also need authorisation to place the ship at you intended location and insurance guarantees etc.

Before you tow here you will also need to arrange for a hull survey in order to establish she is safe to tow in tidal waters. this and the above is all the easy bits ( well most of the time) there s many more things to do and a project takes a long time to set up before you even get to the stage of moving her and starting the restoration.

I really do wish you luck as I truly believe that our past maritime heritage should be saved. If you want any help at all and feel I may be able to help please send me a email I will try to help in any way possible. But as I say be warned it is not a easy task. and it does not happen over night unfortunately.

Just to give you some ideas, we have been doing the Kellington and wanted to move on to the BRONINGTON. On the Kellington since Feb this year we have sent and received replies to the Government,council,Mp's and other officials over 4000 emails. All or most have replied and followed up on before we could even start to prepair plans.
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  #59  
Old 1st June 2008, 12:10
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Hi Jeff,

Suggest you start with Wirral Borough Council. I dont know which department however the tel no is 01516387070.

Good luck I hope you achieve your aims.

Chris.
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  #60  
Old 2nd June 2008, 17:50
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Guys,

What you are doing is admirable, let me wish you all the very best of luck.

Tom
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  #61  
Old 19th August 2008, 11:54
Graham01 Graham01 is offline  
 
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Hi All

Apology for lack of posts and replies, To anyone who has sent replies I thank you for your interest and we are still gaining speed on the project.

The following is this months updated abridged for message boards, I can send the full report to anyone who wants a copy or I can add anyone to our mailing list

The report for August

Progress report

1. At the end of last month and the beginning of this month we approached 2 maritime agencies, The Historic vessels, and Sunderland Maritime Heritage, We felt they may be able to help with letters of support. The replies we obtained where very favorable. And these have been added to the support letters already obtained.

2. We also approached the Stockton Council water Authority regarding keeping the Kellington where she is and renovating her to a standard to use for training. They quickly blew this out of the water so our original plans to remove her are now the only option.

3. Two possible sites has now been found for the lifting out of the ship both of these sites fall within the Stockton area so all permissions will have to come from them. We hope to be in a position to apply for the permissions through the council by the end of this month. A draft planning permission is been wrote up by our solicitors as we speak.

4. The BBC made a report on a similar project although this was land based. They asked us to put our project foreword. We have not done so as yet but we do have a contact for this. We will also be preparing the news press release and awaiting the outcome of the meeting with the council before sending it to the press.

5. We have also been in touch with the MNTB (Maritime Nautical Training Board) regarding obtaining details certification we require. We have been granted the correct ones in readiness and courses have been prepared in readiness.

6. A dry dock near the Kellington’s position has been secured.

7. A meeting with the Wivanhoe’s museum has enabled us to work out tonnages for the lift. A lot more work needs to be done on this so if anyone can estimate the lightest we can get the ship down to it would be appreciated.

8. We now have a second offer for another long term Berth for the Kellington when work is complete.

9. We are also now in talks with a European Sea Cadets Society regarding sponsorship deals. Several companies have also shown a big interest in this form of backing. Our latest figure for financial backing now stands at 666,300.00 plus possible sponsorship on top of this. This figure has the possibility of been higher if we chose to operate as a charity. And not a non profit making organization as we are at the moment.

10. Full insurance cover has been arranged for the Kellington project.

11. Stockton Council informed us after we contacted them that 6 workers where aboard the Kellington removing litter.

12. as well as the Kellington Project, we have also started talks to obtain a second ship, This ship is a ex RN Survey vessel. An initial viewing was done last week where we also met up with, Don Smith of the Nottage society, Hans Ng of Brooks Bros and Bob Dean of the TCA. The purpose of this second ship is for two reasons, Firstly to show we are serious and not as been suggested just playing around. And secondly in order to have a ship working and starting the all important business base.



3. Where we are with the council

1. We have applied for the follow up meeting to take place in September with the aim of removing the Kellington by end of year.

Regards to all and if you
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  #62  
Old 19th August 2008, 15:16
Chouan Chouan is offline  
 
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To what extent are the Ton class minesweepers that important a part of our maritime heritage that we need to preserve 2 or 3 of them? Surely efforts could be combined more effectively to ensure that 1 of them is saved, possibly by cannibalising the missing important parts from the others? Then these laudable efforts won't be diluted by spreading them too thinly.
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  #63  
Old 21st August 2008, 20:00
SAS Amatola SAS Amatola is offline  
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Makes sense. Is HMS Bronington the most important one?
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  #64  
Old 23rd August 2008, 18:24
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I think the question we need to ask is which ship is the best preserved and would cost less to repair & maintain as a museum, they are all 'Tons' at the end of the day?
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  #65  
Old 24th August 2008, 16:58
SAS Amatola SAS Amatola is offline  
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Ja, good point. Not forgetting we have the SAS Durban preserved at Durban in SA. Also the modified ex-SAS Pretoria is also around but no longer in naval service.
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  #66  
Old 24th August 2008, 19:15
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I would imagine the woodwork (almost 80% of these ships) in the SA Tons would be in a much better material state than the UK based ships due to the hotter/drier climate in SA?
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  #67  
Old 25th August 2008, 08:55
SAS Amatola SAS Amatola is offline  
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Depends on the upkeep. Museum ships tend to receive minimal care.
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  #68  
Old 2nd July 2009, 19:43
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For those interested, there are some very recent pics of the Plymouth and Bronington on the ISS site - HERE they look very sad I am afraid.

Chris.
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