Historical Warships Birkenhead - Ships Nostalgia
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Historical Warships Birkenhead

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  #1  
Old 19th March 2006, 20:59
Santos Santos is offline  
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Historical Warships Birkenhead

The Historic warships HMS BRONNINGTON, HMS PLYMOUTH, HMS ONYX and LCT 7074 have been abandoned this week by the receivers who have disclaimed the ships.

It would appear that ownership of them is now with the Crown as they are abandoned assets. What on earth will happen to them now is anybodys guess.

The U Boat, U534 is still owned privately as is the ex Mersey BAR LIGHTSHIP which has been moved away from the other vessels.

This is a very sad day and the parties responsible for the breakup of this Historic organisation should be ashamed of themselves.

To do this, just to covert an old flourmill into luxery flats that nobody can afford to live in and wont want to anyway ( its on the side of a smelly dock surrounded by industrial sites and over run with rats ) is a disgrace and their greed is an example of the large property developers of today. The destruction they have wrought in the name of developement is despicable.


Chris

Last edited by Santos; 19th March 2006 at 21:22..
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  #2  
Old 19th March 2006, 22:46
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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Wasn't HMS Bronnington commanded by Prince Charles at one stage? Maybe they should appeal to him for assistance>

John T.
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  #3  
Old 20th March 2006, 09:19
Geoff Bray Geoff Bray is offline  
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Historic Warships

Chris
I am with you on this one, it's a disgrace
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  #4  
Old 20th March 2006, 10:42
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Chris
I agree with all that you have said. I think that it is typical of the majority of property developers all over the world, they think only of several things money and more money.
Frank
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  #5  
Old 6th May 2006, 16:43
Duncan Robinson Duncan Robinson is offline  
 
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any more news?

Is there any more news about these vessels, it all seems to have gone quiet!
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  #6  
Old 6th May 2006, 18:02
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Historic ships

Irish sea shipping website does good updates.
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  #7  
Old 6th May 2006, 18:28
wigger wigger is offline  
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Would'nt it be nice if they could find a home for HMS Plymouth, somewhere appropriate like..Oh, off the top of my head...PLYMOUTH??
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  #8  
Old 6th May 2006, 19:46
Santos Santos is offline  
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Historic Warships

Update so far, the ships afloat have been moved to another part of the dock and the U Boat has been moved further down the quay from where she rested.

Discussions are apparantly taking place between Wirral Borough Council and an unknown person as to the future. So far nothing else has been released.

We can only keep our fingers crossed as to the outcome, we have already suffered the Manxman blow this past week I just hope we dont have to suffer the loss of these ships as well.

Chris.
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  #9  
Old 6th May 2006, 20:27
rushie rushie is offline  
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Here's yet another opportunity for the National Maritime (sailing boats only) Museum in Falmouth to step in and do something..!

What the hell their remit is, and their audacity to be named as they are is beyond me. I would have thought one of their priorities would be to secure some sort of national collection? Surely that's the point of investing public and lottery money in the venture?

Why not moor the Plymouth in Carrick Roads and run boat trips out to her? I know a ferry operator who would love to do it. HMS Plymouth has a long history with Falmouth, I certainly visited her there in 1969 when she was on a port visit.

I'd much prefer to have a tour round a proper historic ship rather than learn how they make canoes in the Solomon Islands.

Grrrr Rushie
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  #10  
Old 7th May 2006, 05:38
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Fully Agreed with Rushie.

The Bronnington is a fine vessel as well. I would be happy to make a trip on it as well. Seems that ship preservation is made of a few islands of success in a sea of failures.

Too many people just see ships as a disposable commodity when old. If we had the same view with buildings, Tour Eiffel , the Tower Bridge and all Buildings over 50 years should be demolished and replaced by modern and functional ones.

I plan to offer a cruise myself, but don't want those plastic cubic& blank "Star of the seas" floating resort.
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  #11  
Old 23rd May 2006, 10:32
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Why not place them in the Albert Dock complex, under the auspices of the mersyside maritime Museum ?? Cheers Bob
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  #12  
Old 5th June 2006, 18:36
agentroadrunner agentroadrunner is offline  
 
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I fully agree, our Maritime history is being ALLOWED to vanish from under our noses by greedy Councils and Port Authorities.

We cant blame the property developers as they are just trying to conduct their business. It's the fault of the people who give planning permission, then knowingly stand by counting the profit while ships, dry-docks etc etc are consigned to the history books.

It's time a National Maritime Heritage Agency was set up with powers to prevent this sort of thing happening and a letter to Charlie might not be a bad idea to get things started!

A
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  #13  
Old 5th June 2006, 19:16
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There is supposed to be one, and it's called the National Historic Ships Register, and it fits in the Department of Culture Media and Sport. Unfortunately it has no powers so that a listed ship does not have the protection enjoyed by a listed building (or tree or electricity pylon!!!)

You may also be interested to know that we did seek help from Prince Charles re the Manxman project. However the main angle of the response was would we invite him to the opening.

Do I sound depressed? Yes

Bill Ogle
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  #14  
Old 5th June 2006, 19:47
agentroadrunner agentroadrunner is offline  
 
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Familiar with the Historic Ship register but as you say it's a bit of a toothless tiger.

What's the latest on MANXMAN? is it bad news?

I remember her at Ardrossan for her summer visits, what a classy ship and mighty impressive flying in through the harbour entrance stern first.

A
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  #15  
Old 7th June 2006, 14:06
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Historic Warships Birkenhead

The latest on the warships is that "Onyx" has been bought by a Barrow business man Joe Mullen for a sum said to be more than 100,000. In the meantime all sorts of sad excuses are being put abroad for the inability to find a home on the Mersey.
Norman.
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  #16  
Old 13th June 2006, 12:31
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Have just seen "Onyx" under tow heading out of Mersey .
Norman
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  #17  
Old 22nd September 2006, 12:06
ddraigmor ddraigmor is offline
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Good thread - any update?

I visited two years ago - mainly to see U-534 (owned by Karsten Ree (I think that is how you spell it!) and on loan to the Trust. The whole experience was great, with the guides knowing their stuff.

It is a damned shame that developers have once again ridden roughshod over our heritage. I hope they can set up again elsewhere although the U-534 would need more than a windy hammer, some red lead and loads of ovies to get her away in one piece.

Keep us posted if you find anything out?
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  #18  
Old 13th October 2006, 18:34
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on Yorkshire t.v last NIGHT
a new program started ,and the very first part was the birds eye view of the north west around LIVERPOOL ,great views down the mersey and the shipping.
then over BIRKENHEAD .looking down on H.M.S PLYMOUTH.now it,s all gone.
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  #19  
Old 20th October 2006, 11:42
ddraigmor ddraigmor is offline
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Mad idea this ----- madder than being mad in a mad house (and I should know all about that........)

We have, on this site, Master Mariners past and present, ex Chief Mates and 2-oh's, Chief and lesser engineers, sparkies, lekkies, bilge rats, deckies, cooks and possibly bottle washers too......We have ex MN and RFA, RN, RCT, RAF, fishing fleets and RNLI - plus the odd coastguard, a policeman and - I bet - a Customs and Excise Officer.

We have ship enthusiasts coming out of our ears...........We have, in short, a couple of very experienced crews available.......

We are or were a maritime nation. We have a heritage and a history. The ships at Birkenhead are historic and should be preserved. There are a few merchantmen out there that deserve that as well.

I'd be willing to offer my time some weekends and possibly as a working holiday to do my bit and see whether we could rescue the ships or indeed one of them - sleep aboard, work day work and chip, scrape, paint, splice etc. I can also write newsletters.........and basically all because it is a part of my history, the sea, and I would be willing to stand up and be counted in an effort to see what could be done to preserve that.

How many tugs and coasters, cargo ships, tramps and tankers have soldiered on, then been left to rot when they had years more life in them? Look at the 'Shieldhall' - a good example of a trust coming together to keep the past alive. Look at Holland, who not only ensure ships live on but actually sail them, exhibit them and generally ensure the past is not forgotten. They make the past pay for the future. Look at the US, who save Liberty and Victory ships, work on them in their spare time and beg, steal or borrow parts - with the aid, often, of the government - and then get the ships back to a condition where they sailed the Atlantic for D-Daycelebrations!

Here in the UK we have forgotten how to stand and fight those who see money and today rather than history and the glorious past.

Anyone else feel that we could lend our weight to this argument?

Jonty
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  #20  
Old 20th October 2006, 15:59
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Not such a mad idea at all. This is exactly the process planned for restoration of the Manxman (see www.ssmanxman.co.uk)
One of the key issues on Merseyside is that there is no support from the owners of the dock estates, Peel Holdings, for restored ships to feature. That is why the Warships had their lease terminated which has lead to the present situation. Similarly the owner of the restored Bar lightship is finding it almost impossible to operate in Albert Dock and recent media articles suggest a move to Salford Quays is likely.
In Manxman's case our conditional offer of a berth in Birkenhead was withdrawn following the Peel takeover. Since that time we have been unable to approach any of the key funding agencies, although a meeting which will take place in 3 weeks time will try to address these issues.
Not bad for a port which won World Heritage Status for it's docks areas, but has chosen to ignore a basic question from the UNESCO Judges who asked "where are the ships?"- and could be the first to lose this important honour.
A frustrated

Bill Ogle
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  #21  
Old 20th October 2006, 16:48
ddraigmor ddraigmor is offline
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Oglebilluk

Just trying to get on the site to see the 'Manxman'. My only 'claim to fame' with the IOMSPCo was towing the 'King Orry' up to Glasson dock on the 'Afon Goch' - well, actually to 15 miles off Anglesey where we handed her over to the 'Afon Wen' (that's the old deep sea tugs - not the new ones nowadays!)

I'd give serious thought to volunteering on a project like this one. One, I think I need the sea again and two, I just like to get my hands dirty! My partner would be handy doing her share too - a working volunteering holiday!

Seems a shame that the port of Birkenhead appears to be going down the same route as others and buying in people, not ships. The tourism angle would generate revenue and if she was seagoing again, revenue from day trips, cruises, educational tours, seagoing conferences, training....the list is endless. But hey, the fat ar**s that sit and make decisions aren't interested in history, are they?

I hope they do lose their World heitage status - they deserve to. That might knock some sense into them!

Jonty
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  #22  
Old 20th October 2006, 17:11
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The big problem is that Peel Holdings are a Developement Company and are primarily concerned with building developement. The ironic thing about the lightship "Planet" is that it is now berthed at Albert Dock which is managed by British Waterways and some of the businesses there feel that a lightship intrudes on their space. Personally I would have thought that it provided interest to their customers.
I do feel that Liverpool seems to be turning its back on the Port it used to be.Even the Maritime Museum does not feel as maritime as it was originally.
Norman.

Last edited by norman.r; 20th October 2006 at 19:11..
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  #23  
Old 21st October 2006, 00:45
ddraigmor ddraigmor is offline
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Norman,

Thanks for that. Interesting about inland waterways and their apparent lack of wanting links. A personal experience for you which may have some bearing on the attitude.

The Oxford canal runs about a quarter mile from my house and it is a good place to walk on a fine day. Three weeks ago, out with my partner, and there is this length of rope lying on the towpath. Being an ex sailor and seeing it lying there with horse's tails both ends, I sat down as we had lunch - by the lock - while I spliced a back splice one end and an eye the other. Generated a bit of interest from a couple of boat owners. One was flying the Red Ensign (which I have always thought was daft on a canal boat anyway!)

One of these august boatmen looked at my effort - I intended it to be a lead rope for the partner's horses as she is always on at me to make a few up and it was good quality cordage, despite being discarded - and he says 'That's gimmicky. Why did you do that? ' I looked at his own warps - knotted both ends and not even bowlines - and said it used to be my job and I could never pass a length of wasted rope. He sniffed and shrugged and said it was very fancy and very rustic - but what was the use of it? If he'd have been better mannered, I'd have whipped and spliced his ropes for him for nothing!

I told him it was for a horse (somewhat sarcastically) and he nodded, sagely, and said 'Ah, you're equestrian then, are you?'

His boat was called 'Ocean Venturer' (fat chance with that freeboard and 40' in length!) and he wore the semi yachting rig of yellow wellies, psudo mariners peaked hat (with anchor and braided edge) and a fisherman's smock.......

Now if he - august, weatherbeaten and grizzled old mariner he probably thinks he is - couldn't tell what I was doing, is it any wonder the waterways lot don't want a real ship spoiling their marina? Even that tradition has become an excuse for waterborne caravaners who remain insulated, it seems.

I sometimes wonder whether we have lost our proud maritime heritage altogether - if it wasn't for many volunteers after thin slices of National lottery money to keep something for the future, they may as well tarmac the whole docks system and hand it over to property developers for new housing and marinas!

By the way, the rope is now in daily use as a lead rope for the horses!

Jonty

Last edited by ddraigmor; 21st October 2006 at 00:49..
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  #24  
Old 21st October 2006, 04:08
benjidog benjidog is offline
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I can see why you were annoyed Jonty but there are prats in all walks of life and it would be wrong to think all canal wallahs are as stupid and arrogant as the bloke you came across.

Reading the earlier account of Liverpool, it sounds like it is the people renting the apartments and offices that were objecting rather than British Waterways. Probably accountants and financial advisers! (My turn to air my prejudices now!).

Regards,

Brian
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  #25  
Old 21st October 2006, 06:22
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I may be able to help with a sorce of willing and able volunteers. PM me Jonty and I'll give you details. I am tied up at the moment assessing the Quetzalcoatl here in Pajaritos, so I may take a couple of days to get back.

Regards,

Dave
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