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Engine-room fines.

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  #1  
Old 22nd February 2007, 15:15
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Ali Bain Ali Bain is offline  
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Smile Engine-room fines.

When I went deep sea one of the many unique customs which surprised me was the “fine” system down the engine-room, not only on steam ships but on the motor jobs as well I believe.
Many of the chief’s and seconds I sailed with could vouch for a false start on the main engine costing them a case of beer every time when they were down on stand by. These were obviously steam men doing their motor time.
Bad bunch these motor men..!!!

Birthdays were always good for at least a case, maybe even two.

Promotion was another obvious and fair one which was usually barrels more than cases.

An epaulette on the wrong shoulder was another favourite and I think just about everyone got caught out on that one at some time or another.

Going back on the menu, i.e. having the main course and then deciding to have the starter.

Lifting the safety valve on any of the main boilers, even if it was the donkeyman, the senior of the watch had to cough up.

When the main engine rev counter clicked back to zero.

I am sure there were many others.
Ali. Bain.
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  #2  
Old 22nd February 2007, 16:22
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Dropping parts or tools on a major or genny. Not putting the job to bed properly on UMS. Overflowing the daily cylinder oil tank on M boats. I don't know in other companies, but in Blue Funnel a person who had a birthday invited everyone to a free bar and picked up the tab.

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Dave
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  #3  
Old 22nd February 2007, 16:42
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How do epaulettes end up on the wrong shoulder, mine were always ambidextrous !
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  #4  
Old 22nd February 2007, 17:13
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With the Benline ones it was easy to mix them up if you were third mate or above or fourth engineer or above.. You had to have the the top bar of the ring facing back and not forwards. I have a photograph on the site showing this. Royal Navy type braid but thinner.
Regards-Ali. Bain.
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  #5  
Old 16th June 2018, 11:15
Chillytoes Chillytoes is offline  
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I seem to recall that if you were fined a case of p**s, that meant that you incurred an additional fine of another case of p** s, and then another case - ad finitum!
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  #6  
Old 17th June 2018, 17:43
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ali Bain View Post
When I went deep sea one of the many unique customs which surprised me was the “fine” system down the engine-room, not only on steam ships but on the motor jobs as well I believe.
Many of the chief’s and seconds I sailed with could vouch for a false start on the main engine costing them a case of beer every time when they were down on stand by. These were obviously steam men doing their motor time.
Bad bunch these motor men..!!!

Birthdays were always good for at least a case, maybe even two.

Promotion was another obvious and fair one which was usually barrels more than cases.

An epaulette on the wrong shoulder was another favourite and I think just about everyone got caught out on that one at some time or another.

Going back on the menu, i.e. having the main course and then deciding to have the starter.

Lifting the safety valve on any of the main boilers, even if it was the donkeyman, the senior of the watch had to cough up.

When the main engine rev counter clicked back to zero.

I am sure there were many others.
Ali. Bain.
Crossing the equator for the first time.
First foreign port.
Crossing the international date line for the first time.
Paid for the first but not the last two.
It probably goes back to the days before bars when they had cabin drinking, which tended to cause clicks.
The lads would build a bar in the smokeroom and dismantle it before arriving in the UK. Obviously a super joined a ship and thought it was a good idea , so the company started to fit them with lockable shutters/grills.
Now I suppose they are all dry ships.
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  #7  
Old 18th June 2018, 11:01
oldgoat1947 oldgoat1947 is offline  
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Dry Ships

Quote:
Originally Posted by sternchallis View Post
Crossing the equator for the first time.
First foreign port.
Crossing the international date line for the first time.
Paid for the first but not the last two.
It probably goes back to the days before bars when they had cabin drinking, which tended to cause clicks.
The lads would build a bar in the smokeroom and dismantle it before arriving in the UK. Obviously a super joined a ship and thought it was a good idea , so the company started to fit them with lockable shutters/grills.
Now I suppose they are all dry ships.
Some Companies are a bit more enlightened and have left the door open. Being somewhat ambiguous they have stated a " As per Charterer's Requirements " If it specifically in the Charter then No booze available while Vessels are in Port or carrying out Cargo Operations. Otherwise its understood that moderate Alcohol Consumption is allowed. At Sea. Lets face it Passenger ships would never have been able to enforce a no drinking Rule.
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  #8  
Old 18th June 2018, 12:05
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Re Old goat 7.
Very often on the NZ/ Aussie coast the Mate would invite some of the steverdore managers into lunch and several pre and post lunch drinks whilst working cargo.

The 2nd &3rd mates would be on deck seeing to cargo load or discharge.
We are talking general or frozen cargo, not oil or gas.
Deep sea a few old men they would have boozy afternoon sessions with the Chief Engineer the Mate and other day workers like the Frosty.

I was not much of a drinker at sea or even now, so what others were doing didn't concern me. I did come across a couple on one ship that had cirrosis of the liver with swollen ankles, the sparkie and the 2nd mate, though I have sailed with C/engs that were a bottle ( gin or whisky) a day men.

Yet despite all the boozing that went on nothing untoward ever went wrong unlike the Costa Concordia.

I have heard that they do random checks with a breathalyser these days. Not sure how that works.
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  #9  
Old 18th June 2018, 16:54
oldgoat1947 oldgoat1947 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sternchallis View Post
Re Old goat 7.
Very often on the NZ/ Aussie coast the Mate would invite some of the steverdore managers into lunch and several pre and post lunch drinks whilst working cargo.

The 2nd &3rd mates would be on deck seeing to cargo load or discharge.
We are talking general or frozen cargo, not oil or gas.
Deep sea a few old men they would have boozy afternoon sessions with the Chief Engineer the Mate and other day workers like the Frosty.

I was not much of a drinker at sea or even now, so what others were doing didn't concern me. I did come across a couple on one ship that had cirrosis of the liver with swollen ankles, the sparkie and the 2nd mate, though I have sailed with C/engs that were a bottle ( gin or whisky) a day men.

Yet despite all the boozing that went on nothing untoward ever went wrong unlike the Costa Concordia.

I have heard that they do random checks with a breathalyser these days. Not sure how that works.
Breathalyser checks are carried out occasionally by some companies I had this occur on several vessels while I was at sea. We had the whole crew up on one ship at 7am in the morning as the company hadn't realised that we wer 12 hours different time Zone to them I had a trace result and the company wanted to know why. My mouthwash contained Alcohol It caused quite a stir. I had just cleaned my teeth and used the mouthwash to rinse. Some seafaring Unons won't allow their members to be breathalysed un less there is an accident (Canadian ) for one and there has to be reasonable grounds to suspect Alcohol abuse. Strangely enough drugs are more of issue now. and Prescription meds abuse is more prevalent.
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  #10  
Old 18th June 2018, 23:52
dannic dannic is offline  
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Normal to have unannounced tests onboard, both at sea and in port. Seems onboard saliva or breath testing now is more reliable so dont need outside help from urine samples lab testing, obviously also when there has been a mishap.
Dannic
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  #11  
Old 19th June 2018, 00:16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlythSpirit View Post
How do epaulettes end up on the wrong shoulder, mine were always ambidextrous !

With curles as with standard MN diamonds there is a right way and a wrong way to wear them, mind you the black gang may not have been aware of that fact!

All the aforementioned case fines applied equally across all departments in my experience.
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  #12  
Old 19th June 2018, 01:31
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You'll have to elucidate I am afraid Malim Sahib. I have those of my first two promotions on my desk and the only way I can see them being on the wrong sides is if one were to wear them on one's buttocks.
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  #13  
Old 19th June 2018, 09:30
david freeman david freeman is offline  
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my oh my! I was conned, being such a long time on the 8-12 watch the penalty was if the ER clock stopped that watch provided the c/e with a case of beer. WE were responsible at noon to check the time with the bridge. ships whistle and to wind up the endearing , charming piece of gear.
Life can be a *****? so can the clock, especially when changing time zones?
Did I quote bonetch?

Last edited by david freeman; 19th June 2018 at 09:32.. Reason: **
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  #14  
Old 19th June 2018, 13:32
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You'll have to elucidate I am afraid Malim Sahib. I have those of my first two promotions on my desk and the only way I can see them being on the wrong sides is if one were to wear them on one's buttocks.

Look at a pair and then look at the vertical and horizontal seams of the diamond, if they're properly made then the diamond on one board/epaulette should be symmetrical to the other, but they should not be identical.
The vertical seam should always be towards your back with the horizontal at the bottom, hence wearing them the wrong way round was known as "flying backwards" and punishable by being fined a case of beer.
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  #15  
Old 19th June 2018, 13:50
vickentallen vickentallen is offline  
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As a Lecky we did not have that problem, in my time deep sea . no curles or diamonds, just two gold bands.
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  #16  
Old 19th June 2018, 21:17
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Did I read that a Chief ventured down to the ER.. this only happened twice while I was with BP.. once when a main SW cooling pipe broke, and then only to make sure the engine was stopped as soon as it was discovered.. the other to see the counter turn 1M... otherwise chief in a box....
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  #17  
Old 19th June 2018, 22:36
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Having just joined my first ship in Liverpool so very green, decided during the 1 1/2 lunch hour to nip up to the Post Office on the E.R bike ( had been liberated from some docks somewhere and each tube painted a different colour, back pedal brakes as well) , so rather than change out of uniform went up there in my reefer jacket but no cap ( Engineers didn't wear uniform caps, yet we had to have them).
When Igot back I was told it was usually a case of beer for going ashore in uniform, particularly out of the Dock Gate.First offence, let off.

Going back to the Uniform Cap, there was never a time we Engineers needed them unless you were Chief for the weekly cabin inspections.
At BOT Sports ( Fridays at 4.30 @ sea) we were in our boilersuits as we had stuff to do, ie hoses, or setting off an extinguisher or starting fire pump or lifeboat engine, so wearing a cap it would have ended in the bilge or being blown over the side.
Obviously Deck Dept was fully booted and spurred, complete with shades regardless of weather, until one Sports day all the Engineers trooped up to the boat deck in shades (but still no hats)and it was a gray Friday Afternoon.
I only got to almost wear my hat once as a J/eng was when I swopped roles with the Deck Cadet and went on the Bridge entering Calloa Peru, and on entering the Bridge, the 3rd mate said, " You can take that off for a start" after I had spent 10 minutes in front of the mirror trying to get it to look right. I carried it for a few voyages and then never bothered after that.

Did any other Engineers have an occasion to wear their cap at sea?
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  #18  
Old 19th June 2018, 23:03
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re: Lets face it Passenger ships would never have been able to enforce a no drinking Rule.

Two years ago HAL - Holland America Line - banned all drinking on board or ashore for ALL crew including officers. Like forever HAL officers ate with the guests and ordered off the menu. That still exists but no drinking of any alcohol while onboard or ashore.

Just the other day on his daily blog:

https://www.hollandamerica.com/blog/albert/

Captain Albert mentioned this again while he was ashore in a port that is famous for its beers. While he is working, meaning he is assigned to a ship, HAL folks are forbidden to drink anywhere.

Greg Hayden
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  #19  
Old 20th June 2018, 05:26
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Engineers drinking

I wondered what I had struck when I joined the Rangitane as a first tripper, a cargo/passenger ship (450) on the NZ-UK run.
The bond issues were frequent , a tray of Barclays beer , a bottle of spirits of choice ( Booths gin in hex bottle 9/6d , Black and White whisky 19/6 were the norm) and 4 boxes of 50 Woodbines at 3/6d per hundred.
A 50 pack of cigarettes was donated to the smoke room stock and there was some sort of roster re donating some portion of spirits and beer to the entertainment pool.
Smoke room Parties were frequent with invited passengers and the junior mates and sparkies also used to join us as they were unable to step out of line upstairs .
There were controls and limitations, the junior engineers and electricians were not permitted on the passenger decks in the evening after 10pm and rules were observed but right up to the red line.. concessions were made to deck times for special occasions such as the fancy dress ball, the talent concert and Dinner Adieu night .
I remember the latter night as we approached Wellington , the Engineer room 12 to 4 appeared OK but when I needed to change over a fridge Department circulating pump that was in the main engine room space a greaser answered the phone and suggested that I should come down and do the job myself as no one was very fit.
I wasn't so good myself but the 3rd Eng had his head cradled in his arms on the engine room desk. The 5th was roaming around trying to look alive and the 9th was throwing up in the bilges.
There were two - big six cylinder Doxfords thumping their way to down under with perfect rhythm and all was calm and well.
Not the normal scene of course and everyone probably could have snapped to attention if need be but those were the days and times.

Bob
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  #20  
Old 20th June 2018, 08:22
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Did any other Engineers have an occasion to wear their cap at sea?
Never.
I only took it with me first trip.
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  #21  
Old 20th June 2018, 11:10
oldgoat1947 oldgoat1947 is offline  
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Never.
I only took it with me first trip.
Only one time when we had a "Scattering of Ashes" some old Sailor's last wish. We had a Minister Join as a "Supernumery" for a trip across the North Sea and he conducted "the Last Rites" All the Officers and Engineers not on watch attended (Everyone then adjourned to the Bar for a light refreshment.
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Old 21st June 2018, 14:34
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Always took my steaming bonnet to sea with me - always packed my socks in it - never wore it once. My nephews wore it a lot more than I ever did before they reached the age of 5.

I did hear of a first trip J/E in UASC that turned up on the quayside in the Gulf 40+ degC wearing full Blues and Steaming Bonnet - and he had come via Beirut Airport! Bet he made it to Chief

As for fines - never heard anything of the sort. But the 3/E and my self did put a case of the Big T in the bar when the rev counter went back to zero on our watch - but at 14p a can, it wasn't a big deal.

Talking of cheap booze anyone got recommendations for a 4 Bells Rum replacement - I've had to stop drinking it as I am down to my last inch in the bottle bought last trip to sea in 1983 at the cost of 75p.
I checked on line a while back and it now goes for about £180 a bottle when it comes up at auction
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  #23  
Old 21st June 2018, 15:55
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Originally Posted by Lao Pan View Post

Talking of cheap booze anyone got recommendations for a 4 Bells Rum replacement - I've had to stop drinking it as I am down to my last inch in the bottle bought last trip to sea in 1983 at the cost of 75p.
I checked on line a while back and it now goes for about £180 a bottle when it comes up at auction
Try this - lovely drop !! https://groceries.morrisons.com/webs...-Rum/217585011
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  #24  
Old 21st June 2018, 16:37
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Lao Pan 22,
I see you live in Weston Super Mud, so you are not too far from RNAS Yeovilton.
If you haven't been its worth a day out there and to Haynes Motor museum.
They sell ' Navy Rum ' in the gift shop at RNAS at a reasonable price, how it compares to the old 4 Bells , not sure.
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  #25  
Old 9th August 2018, 05:57
Dave Lambert Dave Lambert is offline  
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Speaking of rum. Remember we ran out in West Ireland on a bulker I was on. The old man managed to source a supply in Limerick and stocked up with a case or two. It was called Salty Dog with a leering navy type character on the label. Sailed across to Norfolk Roads to load coal and my brother who I'd not seen for a few years visited. The Salty Dog went down OK on the night but we were not so good the following morn. We'd rolled a couple of bottles and when checking the empties the rum had etched the glass inside. Back to Four Bells after that!
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