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  #201  
Old 26th July 2012, 17:56
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ART6 ART6 is online now   SN Supporter
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I have never understood why anyone in his right mind would want to go to sea in anything powered with the over-sized equivalent of a Singer sewing machine without the reliability. I served my time in a yard that built Sulzers and sailed on one. I didn't like it. Nasty, noisy, oily things. Only so many engine starts until the starting air ran out. What a way of running a ship is that when the bridge are looking for something like twenty starts and stops a minute with a few emergency asterns included?

Steam turbines were the boys. Run for one hundred years without irritating or inconveniencing anyone. Endless starts and stops and asterns and double rings without moving a hair. Babcock boilers to give them their power, oil burners that could be slammed in and out in seconds to regulate that power. A steady rumbling noise that induced deep sleep in one's cabin.

Why would anyone want to go to sea in a glorified Nissan motor car?
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  #202  
Old 27th July 2012, 17:57
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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You have to go back into Marine Engineering history to find the answer Art.
In the late 1900's/ early 20's there was a "rash" of Turbine Blade failure's which left a lot of Shipowner's very unhappy. The alternative was the VTE's (which was the Devil they knew) or the very heavy and expensive Marine Diesel Engine. At this point knowing there was a gap in the power market the Diesel Engine builder's jumped in with their various offering's from the unusual Scott- Still to the Doxford. To make the Diesel Engine more attractive to Shipowner's being able run on the cheaper HFO was important when full away. For manoeuvring the Scott- Still used steam and other engine's used pre-injection, however the increased wear when using HFO was well known in the 1920's and Engine Builder's subsidised the cost of repair's to make their product more attractive to the Shipowner. The clanker's were not popular with all Shipowner's who still preferred steam and in the case of the VTE well into the 1950's. The Chief want's the sack if he has an untidy Turbine Engineroom.
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  #203  
Old 18th August 2012, 13:39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beartracks View Post
Hugh -
That Doxford engine was truly loved by a lot of us. I never imagined walkways and lights in the crankcase of an engine!
I spent almost a year on the MS Trans-Gulf, owned and operated by Mississippi Valley Barge Line. It was their only ship. Formerly the Esso Little Rock, Sun Hull 191, she was delivered 1/1941. converted at Alabama DD to a half-assed self-unloader bulk carrier with large deck cranes and a belt system alongside the holds which never worked. Engine was 5 cyl 32" x 40"/55", 8250 BHP Sun-Doxford. That engine was the biggest thing I ever saw. Remember, this was 1965.
Don
L.S.
She was SUN HULL 197, see:

http://users.telenet.be/doxford-matt...0SUN%20pdf.pdf
or
http://shipbuildinghistory.com/histo...active/sun.htm

SUN- DOXFORD

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Alfons
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  #204  
Old 22nd August 2012, 13:20
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Now, a twin bank Doxford - that's got to be the ultimate ..... nightmare*/ excitment*/ ingenuity*/stupidity*/ bravery*
*= delete as felt appropriate
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  #205  
Old 1st December 2016, 09:19
Abbeywood. Abbeywood. is offline  
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Favourite Engines:
As previously mentioned my own preference was for the Sulzer RD and later the RND.
The major bugbear of the RD was the replacing of the gas and oil seals on the rotary exhaust valves whereby one was forced to lay on top of the valve body to gain access to the seal housings. Not very pleasant if the ship was on a short turn round and the exhaust valve still retained considerable heat and where planks of wood eased the burning sensations to ones nether regions
Thankfully the RND did away with the exhaust valves by the extending of the Piston skirts.

Regards Pete'
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  #206  
Old 1st December 2016, 11:16
Rudolph.A.Furtado Rudolph.A.Furtado is offline  
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Smile Favourite Engines.

During my sea-service from 1983 to 2006 was mostly employed on ships having the "Sulzer Rd" and "Sulzer RND" Main Engines and hence was more familiar with the machinery.
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  #207  
Old 1st December 2016, 12:38
JohnBP JohnBP is offline  
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Sulzer always. British Sargent ran like a sewing machine for 8 months. Just routine maintenance only....
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  #208  
Old 2nd December 2016, 09:56
jmirvine jmirvine is offline  
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I sailed on 2 "Birdie boats" with Sulzer engines. The British Fulmar and the British Curlew. Biggest heap of crap I ever had the misfortune to come across. I forget how many pistons we pulled, but it was certainly in double figures. Once the main engine was running for about half an hour, you couldn't see back to the aft end of the lower plates for the blue oily smoke.

Dreadful things.
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  #209  
Old 4th December 2016, 20:54
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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As one Chief told me, don't sail with any engines begining with "P",
Paxmans, Pielsticks or Pdoxfords.
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  #210  
Old 4th December 2016, 21:19
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You forgot Polars
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  #211  
Old 4th December 2016, 22:37
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Just read through this thread, and saw a few mentions for smaller engines such a Gardners and Perkins (P6's).
A large number of ocean going motor yachts built in the 60's and 70's had Caterpillars of either straight 6 or V8 designs, and some had Detroit Diesel 71 series motors.
Gardners would run continuously at medium speeds up to 1800rpm without any fuss. Detroit Diesels (commonly called two stroke motors) constantly leaked oil from the cylinder block inspection doors, and anywhere else, due to the pressurised airbox around the cylinders.
Perkins were just noisy things that sounded rattly all the time, although they supplied their 6354 and 4107(?) engines to other manufacturers such as Volvo and Caterpillar.
Ford also supplied 4 and 6 cylinder lumps for marinising. These would be supplied by various companies such as Sabre Marine, Mermaid Marine, Watermota Ltd etc. They were installed in small cruisers and powerboats.
Personally, I found that the marine propulsion systems designed and made by Ted Hood and Lowell North were 100% reliable and totally silent in operation, with enough power to shove a 76 foot ketch along at 12 knots...
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  #212  
Old 4th December 2016, 23:28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duncan112 View Post
You forgot Polars
British Polar!

Here as Acting Chief Engineer at age 12. Couldn't reach the telegraph handle past the STOP!
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  #213  
Old 4th December 2016, 23:53
Hamish Mackintosh Hamish Mackintosh is offline  
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You forgot Cummins DS, they had a v configuration 555, we called it a triple nickel which was primarily designed for marine use, quite noisy and had a tendency to leaking waterpumps, otherwise a fair lump of metal,The beauty of the 71 and 53 series detroits was their versatility,anything you could hang on the left side would also fit on the right side (one had to watch rotation in some cases tho) and the airbox inspection holes always were a problem for leaking, but never never never just tighten a leaking airbox cover, the torque was I think around seven foot pounds, it only took about another seven foot pounds to distort the cylinder it was covering
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  #214  
Old 5th December 2016, 12:44
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
British Polar!

Here as Acting Chief Engineer at age 12. Couldn't reach the telegraph handle past the STOP!
Stop is a good place to be, far less breakdowns
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  #215  
Old 5th December 2016, 13:01
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Originally Posted by chadburn View Post
Stop is a good place to be, far less breakdowns

LOL. Even better.... 'FWE'.... then you can enjoy a few beers!
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  #216  
Old 5th December 2016, 14:43
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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After I went off site to do a couple of jobs I thought that FWE might be a better answer.
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  #217  
Old 5th December 2016, 16:43
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
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Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
British Polar!

Here as Acting Chief Engineer at age 12. Couldn't reach the telegraph handle past the STOP!
Worked on Polars twice when I was serving my time, they seemed big dirty engines at the time compared to the WerkspoorsTM410 and Mirrlees K's that were running on gas oil. Think the Polars were on Heavy of sorts.
They were the only two strokes during my time, till I went to sea.
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  #218  
Old 5th December 2016, 17:35
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Worked on Polars twice when I was serving my time, they seemed big dirty engines at the time compared to the WerkspoorsTM410 and Mirrlees K's that were running on gas oil. Think the Polars were on Heavy of sorts.
They were the only two strokes during my time, till I went to sea.

MARINIA's Polar burned gas oil. If I remember the genny was Lister Brackstone and that was dirty. Mind, I was only 12 so I might not get it quite right. I remember a couple of buckets of gas oil in the E/R with 'part's being washed. That seemed dirty.

On YouTube there is a clip of a small tug 'Kenton' starting up with her Polar. Unmistakable sound of the scavenging pump and also the air-starting.
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  #219  
Old 5th December 2016, 18:52
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Hedemoras not my favourite either. Very compact (weren't they built for submarines?) and the only thing going for them is that you can whip the heads off and pull the pistons single-handed.

Al
Horrible engines, adjustable main bearings with wedges, steam technology, why have it on a diesel? I saw one on the 'Treasure Seeker' just about cut in two by thrown rods. Happily management saw the light after that and we replaced them with Wartsilas.
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  #220  
Old 5th December 2016, 19:19
chadburn chadburn is offline  
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[QUOTE=D1566;2290361]Horrible engines, adjustable main bearings with wedges, steam technology, why have it on a diesel?

Could it be down to this?
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  #221  
Old 5th December 2016, 20:29
Dartskipper Dartskipper is online now  
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Originally Posted by Hamish Mackintosh View Post
You forgot Cummins DS, they had a v configuration 555, we called it a triple nickel which was primarily designed for marine use, quite noisy and had a tendency to leaking waterpumps, otherwise a fair lump of metal,The beauty of the 71 and 53 series detroits was their versatility,anything you could hang on the left side would also fit on the right side (one had to watch rotation in some cases tho) and the airbox inspection holes always were a problem for leaking, but never never never just tighten a leaking airbox cover, the torque was I think around seven foot pounds, it only took about another seven foot pounds to distort the cylinder it was covering
Also forgot Glennifers. Dennys built two small ferries, and one of them, the Leven operated in South Devon as Pride of the Bay. She had twin Glennifers in a proper engine room, complete with air start system. She had reversing gearboxes too, so air was only needed for the initial start. To pump up the bottles, one cylinder could be disconnected from the fuel system and some valves turned this way and that. She also had a hand pump which was very hard work.Eventually, after being sold on to another owner, she had the Glennifers replaced by twin 6 cylinder Fords.
The Detroits could be seen in all sorts of sizes. I saw a twin V16 set up in a large fishing cruiser, and an ex US Navy inshore minesweeper had two 6:71 quad installations (Eight 6:71 engines in total.) Ear defenders would have been absolutely essential in that engine room. There are a many Detroit motors in action on You Tube. Mike Harrah has built a spectacular V24 monster for a hot rod truck.


Here's a V8.


I would hate to have to strip that lot down if it dropped a liner! One thing that always makes me wonder is that no matter how many cylinders a Detroit has, they all sound the same.

I quickly learned not to overtighten those airbox doors.
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  #222  
Old 5th December 2016, 22:46
Hamish Mackintosh Hamish Mackintosh is offline  
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That looks like a 53 series, but I guess they will all be out of production now what with the polution police?
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  #223  
Old 5th December 2016, 22:49
Hamish Mackintosh Hamish Mackintosh is offline  
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We had 10 of the 92 series jimmies that were turboed as well as blown, those guys sure could scream
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  #224  
Old 6th December 2016, 07:03
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On full throttle the sound of the ignition was drowned out, for sure. Everybody I met who worked with them always called them "Screaming Jimmies." The two 4:71 GM's in Orcella were just as noisy as any 6 or 8 cylinder motor. Fortunately, the engine space was well insulated and sound proofed.
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  #225  
Old 6th December 2016, 08:06
david freeman david freeman is offline  
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Sailed maily with 'Pamatrada' steam turbine ME Sets-HP/LP- astern Turbines on to a Doulbe reduction gear of the articulated type up to some 20K SHP single prop. Boilers could be a problem, if one did not keep the water sweet, and free of salts.
Interesting types of turbine sets HP and Lp and astern were the Stal-Laval feeding on to epicyclic gear sets, and a single shaft up to 45-50K SHP.
One of the more interesting turbine I came accross for power stations with direct turbine drive to the Genny, was a 'Lungstrome' Turbine The power generated was in megawatts! How many pershaft I am unsure off??
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