Bill (William) Turner - engineer 50s - late 70s - Ships Nostalgia
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Bill (William) Turner - engineer 50s - late 70s

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  #1  
Old 8th September 2017, 00:42
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Bill (William) Turner - engineer 50s - late 70s

Hi,

Bill was my Dad, (from Liverpool) and engineer on quite a number of Ellerman ships, He passed away in March '83, Mum gave me his discharge books only quite recently. Would have been 82 this year had he lived. Would love to hear from anyone who might have sailed with him. Some of the Elllerman ships he was on in the 60s and early 70s
Tagus are :-
Mercian
Crosbian
Malatian
Athenian
loads of trips on Flaminian
Catanian
Florian
Arcadian
Darinian
Minho
Tamega
Tua
Tiber
Tronto
Tagus
Rapallo
Anything at all, good, bad, indifferent. Know nothing at all really about his life at sea. asked him to take me with him when I was a child. Dad said not really the place for kids !!
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  #2  
Old 8th September 2017, 09:56
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Hiya, I have researched a number of dad's ships and I'm confident that the T ships weren't Norwegian. Mid 70s the T ships all changed names as were transferred to Ellerman City Liners so for example Tamega became City of Genoa.
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  #3  
Old 12th September 2017, 20:20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post
Hi,

Bill was my Dad, (from Liverpool) and engineer on quite a number of Ellerman ships, He passed away in March '83, Mum gave me his discharge books only quite recently. Would have been 82 this year had he lived. Would love to hear from anyone who might have sailed with him. Some of the Elllerman ships he was on in the 60s and early 70s
Tagus are :-
Mercian
Crosbian
Malatian
Athenian
loads of trips on Flaminian
Catanian
Florian
Arcadian
Darinian
Minho
Tamega
Tua
Tiber
Tronto
Tagus
Rapallo
Anything at all, good, bad, indifferent. Know nothing at all really about his life at sea. asked him to take me with him when I was a child. Dad said not really the place for kids !!
Pam

Minho/Tamega/Tua/Tiber/Toronto/Tagus were al " Hustler "container ships on bare boat charter from Sea Containers to Papayanni. In the mid 70s they were all given " City " names. Rapallo was one of Wilosn Lines of Hull. All the others were " Paps " ships. They ran to Portugal and the Med.

Alan
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  #4  
Old 13th September 2017, 02:20
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I sailed on the Athenian for 2 or 3 trips in about 1974 - 75 though I do not remember you dad there are photographs of the ship and probably some of his others in the gallery which you may find interesting
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  #5  
Old 14th September 2017, 11:00
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Thanks Alan - your post fits with my research to date. What does 'bare boat' mean?
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  #6  
Old 14th September 2017, 11:04
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Hiya Joe Q,

According to Dad's records he was only on the Athenian once very briefly in Feb '71, a home trade run. Have browsed the gallery and found most of his ships in there which was nice. Gives me a hankering for the sea!!
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  #7  
Old 14th September 2017, 12:35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post
Thanks Alan - your post fits with my research to date. What does 'bare boat' mean?
Bareboat is where the owner - charters the vessel to an operator, on a "bareboat" basis.

It is normally a long term charter (say - up to 5yrs), and all running costs are down to the operator. The operator sometimes changes the vessel name and livery while they use it too.

At the end of the charter, the vessel is handed back to the owner, surveyed and any financial restitution - made, for any defects.
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  #8  
Old 26th September 2017, 18:22
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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VNC's could that lead to a seaman being blacklisted for a time??

here's the thing my Dad joined the Darinian on 15 March 1967 for a foreign trip, his record book shows he left the ship on 20 March 1967 at Swansea. The Master has entered 'Extract from Eng.2 signed JW Hodson.' My Dad was supposed to be the second engineer on this ship. The next entry in his book is dated 26/09/68 on the City Of Eastbourne which was a different line in the Ellerman group to the Darinian, from my limited knowledge. It seems that he may therefore have been out of work for 18 months??
Also amongst his papers is a card (ES57) of Record of service Off Articles and Off Contract in which he records the City of Eastbourne trip, and a brief trip in '69 on a Coaster for Coast Lines.
I'm really rather shook up by this, as, if he was out of work, what a worry for Mum & Dad, there were four of us by then, all under 7 years of age!!
BTW he never sailed again on the Darinian. Any thoughts/insights??

Last edited by Pam Turner; 26th September 2017 at 18:43.. Reason: Forgot to pose a question
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  #9  
Old 26th September 2017, 20:05
saudisid saudisid is online now  
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Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post
VNC's could that lead to a seaman being blacklisted for a time??

here's the thing my Dad joined the Darinian on 15 March 1967 for a foreign trip, his record book shows he left the ship on 20 March 1967 at Swansea. The Master has entered 'Extract from Eng.2 signed JW Hodson.' My Dad was supposed to be the second engineer on this ship. The next entry in his book is dated 26/09/68 on the City Of Eastbourne which was a different line in the Ellerman group to the Darinian, from my limited knowledge. It seems that he may therefore have been out of work for 18 months??
Also amongst his papers is a card (ES57) of Record of service Off Articles and Off Contract in which he records the City of Eastbourne trip, and a brief trip in '69 on a Coaster for Coast Lines.
I'm really rather shook up by this, as, if he was out of work, what a worry for Mum & Dad, there were four of us by then, all under 7 years of age!!
BTW he never sailed again on the Darinian. Any thoughts/insights??
Pam

If you look on the Ellerman Lines thread in Shipping Companys Mike Kinnear has posted a lot of crew lists. Your Dad is listed in the City of Eastbourne Dec 68.

If you PM Mike he may be able to gve you more info.


Alan

PS of the crowd in the Eastbourne then I sailed the the Mate John Welsh ad the Chippy Arthur Colley latter.
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  #10  
Old 26th September 2017, 21:17
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Thanks Saudisid.

Don't know what's up with me at the mo, but forgot to say that Dad got the VNC when he was on The Darinian for those 4 days in March 1967, he was on the City of Eastbourne 18 months later.

Why would he have got the VCN?? Was he blacklisted in some way by Ellerman & Papayanni from March 1967 after the Darinian incident and what's an extract??
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  #11  
Old 26th September 2017, 23:38
saudisid saudisid is online now  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post
Thanks Saudisid.

Don't know what's up with me at the mo, but forgot to say that Dad got the VNC when he was on The Darinian for those 4 days in March 1967, he was on the City of Eastbourne 18 months later.

Why would he have got the VCN?? Was he blacklisted in some way by Ellerman & Papayanni from March 1967 after the Darinian incident and what's an extract??
Pam

VNC = Voyage not Completed. Not a good discharge but anything other than VG VG was classed as a bad discharge.

He could have missed the ship or even " Jumped ".

Alan
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  #12  
Old 27th September 2017, 10:53
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Hi Alan,

I knew it meant Voyage Not Completed. Would this have gone against him though? As I said, it appears he didn't sail again for an 18 month period, and then with a different Ellerman Line.

Why would someone 'jump' ship after 4 days?

Thanks,

Pam
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  #13  
Old 27th September 2017, 16:31
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Pam,
I think that the VNC may have arose from a medical condition. Eng.1 is a seagoing medical certificate (fit for duties). Eng.2 is a medical history held (previously by BoT) by the MCA.
Rgds.
Dave
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  #14  
Old 27th September 2017, 17:30
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Thanks for this Dave. BoT I assume is Board of Trade, but what is MCA? Had no idea what an Eng 2 was, or Eng 1 - thought they might be shorthand for different engineer ratings!!
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  #15  
Old 27th September 2017, 19:33
saudisid saudisid is online now  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pam Turner View Post
Thanks for this Dave. BoT I assume is Board of Trade, but what is MCA? Had no idea what an Eng 2 was, or Eng 1 - thought they might be shorthand for different engineer ratings!!

Pam

MCA is the Marine and Coast Guard Agency. It is joining up of Coast Guard and BOT [ or DTI ] which ever hat they had on at the time. Bit like they joined HM Tax with HM Customs.

Alan
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  #16  
Old 5th May 2018, 14:30
john nichols john nichols is offline
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Hi Pam
I'm sorry to hear your dad passed away in 1983 - the year I left Ellermans. Bill and I sailed on the same ships quite often, especially Malatian and the Hustler cargo ships (those ships that began with a "T"), and we were good friends. He was the 2nd Engineer and I was the Chief Officer (or First Mate if you prefer). Your dad was always a terrifically strong man and was a very able engineer. We were drinking mates ashore and joked with each other all the time.
I seem to recollect he worked right through the night at one port when we had an engine problem, he did all sorts of lifting and hammering, but then a few hours later he coughed and badly slipped a disc in his back and had to leave the ship.
I've no idea what the incident with the "VNC" was about but I can say with hand on heart that he was well thought of by the seagoing crews at Ellerman's and also in their Liverpool Shore Gang when they fixed many a shipping problem.
You can be proud of your dad he was a great guy and a great shipmate
Regards
John Nichols (Nick The Greek)
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  #17  
Old 5th May 2018, 15:01
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Bless you John for telling me this.
This is the only contact I have had from anyone who actually remembered working with/alongside him. Your timing is perfect too, as your message has come three days after my wonderful Mum's funeral on Wed 02/05. Mum nursed Dad through his illness, as well as looking after five of us, and her Mum & Dad.
Are the T ships you referred to the following: Tormes, Tua, Tronto, Tamega?? Were these mainly on runs to the Mediterranean. I remember Dad home from sea with back problems, and I'm sure he had to wear a surgical girdle/corset thing for a time. This would have bee sometime in the early 70s.

May I ask why you are 'The Greek' ?
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  #18  
Old 5th May 2018, 16:51
john nichols john nichols is offline
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Hi Pam
May I offer my condolences on the passing of your mum but hopefully past news of your dad has lifted your spirits a little.
I was made redundant from Ellermans in January 83 and as I lived in Hull I lost contact with most of my old shipmates. Today, when I opened up this web site, it was the first news I had that your dad had died.
I cannot remember on which ships your Dad and I were together, we used to move from one ship to another fairly regularly, sometimes we all moved on together, but sometimes we split up and went on other ships within the fleet.
Those "T" ships were Tagus, Tamega, Tormes, Tronto, Tiber, (names of Mediterranean rivers) plus a later one called Mondego. They were all small container ships (when carrying cargo containers was in its infancy) and we loaded in Ellesmere Port for ports in Portugal and the Med. These container ships were additional to our Ellerman cargo ships that you saw in the Liverpool Docks but eventually the Hustler Class container ship (plus bigger, newer container ships) began to replace the older ships.
Why am I called Nick The Greek? Well, I suppose I've always been swarthy and dark and very handsome just like a Greek God.........? OK, to be honest, I think the name was just a shortening of my surname together with a common name among Greek people.
I dont know how many of those old Papayanni guys are still around since I still live in Hull, those I kept in touch with have passed away but so its nice to occasionally open up Ships Nostalgia to see a few names I can still remember.
I began my E & P career in 1959 as a 3rd Mate and was a Captain when I left in 1983, 24 years of permanent sun tans and happy memories.
Please dont hesitate to ask me if you have queries about your dad. Sadly, I'm sure I dont have photos of him and I together which is a pity.
Best Wishes
John (Nick the Greek)
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  #19  
Old 5th May 2018, 17:32
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Hello again. Yes, it has lifted my spirits a little to hear from you. Thank you again, and I will of course have more questions for you at a later date, if you can bear it?! A shame there are no photos, I don't think it was something Dad did. I have only two photos of Dad at sea, and have posted them on this forum on a thread I started under his name for Bank Line. He started out on Bank Line 'tramp ships' in the mid 50s. Please do have a look at them.
Means such a lot to be in contact with you John.
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  #20  
Old 6th August 2018, 15:51
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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My Dad, Bill.

Hello again John,
Hope you are well. Off down south next week and going to the Guildhall library to look at some Voyage Record Cards of some of Dad's trips, particularly the longer trips.

Would you care to share any details of how you and Dad spent time off the ships - an edited version is, of course, acceptable!!

Pam
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  #21  
Old 6th August 2018, 16:41
john nichols john nichols is offline
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Hi Pam
Good luck with your search at the London Guildhall - I'd never heard of them and their records.
You asked about your Dad and me ashore!!!!!!...............! Sorry but not as debauched as you may think (or hope). Our best times were in Lisbon because the ship spent about 3 days there discharging/loading cargo. It was common practice (legally illegal!) for the Chief Officer and Captain to receive a small sum of money from the Stevedoring Company as a thank you for the co-operation they received during the port call. I used to get perhaps 20 prior to us sailing from Lisbon so I used to save it for the following trip and it was sufficient for your dad and me to go up town to a sea food restaurant, have a huge plate of fresh prawns and a few gallons of beer. Sometimes the "few gallons" stretched to "several gallons"! Then stagger back to the ship have a nightcap and turn in around 1-2 a.m. Cabaret/Nightclubs in Lisbon were expensive and out of our league.
On other occasions a whole group of Officers would sit around drinking beer or gin and out do each other with outlandish tales of unlikely happenings on other ships (usually Happy Paps ships). None of us were overpaid but we managed to have a lot of honest fun.
Let me know how you get on in London
Regards
John
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  #22  
Old 19th August 2018, 17:50
Pam Turner Pam Turner is offline
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Hi John,
What a great anecdote. Have been to Lisbon, it's a lovely city. Well, had a look at the Voyage Record Cards for about 12 trips Dad made, at the Guildhall Library in London last Thursday. I only know about the existence of these cards because of this website - it's all to do with Lloyd's List and shipping insurance apparently. Anyway, I have details of ports of call on trips he made after qualifying as an engineer on Bank Line ships in the late 50s, and I also requested the VRCs for some Ellerman trips; the Flaminian from 26/08/60 to 01/11/60; the Crosbian 14/01/60 to 06/06/60; the Florian 05/03/60 and the City of Eastbourne from 26/09/68 to 01/03/69, if you wish, can forward the details, but it might well be you weren't on those particular trips.

What happened to all the stevedores, imagine they are no longer required these days??

What cargoes did you take to Portugal, and what did you bring back other than Port wine and Mateus??


Best regards,

Pam
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  #23  
Old 20th August 2018, 15:15
john nichols john nichols is offline
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Hi Pam
Pleased you made headway with your search in London though none of the dates you mention tallies with any of the dates from my record. If you contact me by my email, [email protected] I could email you all my dates so we narrow down the period I actually sailed with your dad.

The stevedores? Some retired I suppose, but some went to work at sites where cargo was loaded into containers for both road and sea (I recall one of the first sites at Garston) and other stevedores went to work at the container docks, such as your own Seaforth and Ellesmere Port and most ended up (allegedly) on rates of pay that made them millionaires compared to us seafarers due to the way their salaries were structured.

From Liverpool we carried very mixed cargoes, bits and pieces of everything from agricultural tractors to toilet bowls (one voyage we took pedigree pigs to Lisbon for pig breeding), The textile industry was a booming industry in Portugal at this time and we carried lots of industrial knitting/weaving machines, nylon yarns, polyester pellets for nylon type clothes etc. We also carried whisky, cornflakes, HP sauce and every other commodity.
Coming home from Portugal the cargoes were sometimes port wine and Mateus Rose (as you say) - (100s and 100s of tons of Mateus - no idea where they got all the grapes!) but we also carried lots of cork in bales and also granulated cork in sacks, they don't weigh much but they certainly very quickly filled the holds. We also carried big rolls of wood pulp paper and barrels of cork sap (called rosin), all stuff you'd expect from an agricultural country.

Hope all this helps to paint a picture of your dad's career. I find it surprising there are no other ex-Ellerman personnel on the S.N. site who remember your dad

Best Regards
John
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