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Collision in S.F. Bay - Merged Threads

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  #1  
Old 9th November 2007, 00:53
SeaStoryWriter SeaStoryWriter is offline  
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Collision in S.F. Bay - Merged Threads

Container ship tried to take out one of the big bridges. Crushed 100' of the safety barrier and laid herself open some. Understand she's losing some bunker oil but is in no danger of foundering or seriously fouling the bay.
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  #2  
Old 9th November 2007, 10:32
DAVIDJM DAVIDJM is offline  
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She was Hanjin Shipping's 65,131-ton COSCO BUSAN

Try this site
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNUKT85I3.DTL
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  #3  
Old 10th November 2007, 05:42
SeaStoryWriter SeaStoryWriter is offline  
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USCG didn't get to the oil in a timely manner. Seems there's some 58,000 gallons in the bay. Today's LA Times had a photo of the streamers around Alcatraz-imagine it's available on line. Lotta critters getting hurt.
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  #4  
Old 10th November 2007, 11:30
tacho tacho is offline
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http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl.../MNUKT85I3.DTL

Looking at the 4 pics on the above link - the schematic indicates that she hit the pier stbd side fwd but the picture shows it as being port side fwd. Don't suppose it matters. As a layman I'm surprised that the fuel tank/s are so far forward and so high up?
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  #5  
Old 11th November 2007, 20:20
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The Govenator is really up in arms-seems the response from everybody who was supposed to be ready to deal with this type of thing was FUBAR.
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  #6  
Old 15th November 2007, 12:56
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Electronic Chart Assisted Collision

Judging from the ongoing brohaha in San Francisco re the incident involving the Cosco Busan and the S.F. Bay Bridge and the Pilot blaming the Electronic chart as being somehow to blame for the accident - I may be wrong but this may be the first instance of an electronic chart being at fault.

Last edited by Gulpers; 15th November 2007 at 17:33..
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  #7  
Old 15th November 2007, 13:03
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James_C James_C is online now   SN Supporter
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I wouldn't have thought so John, there must have been other cases.
However as with most things, some people are over reliant on technology and have supreme belief in its infallibility.
With ENC's, the GPS position may be right to the WGS84 datum, but that of course doesn't mean the chart is! I'm sure I've read of incidents in the MAIB safety digest regarding confusion over the datum etc causing groundings or suchlike.
I've even seen people taking Ranges and bearings from an electronic chart! When I said something along the lines of "well if you're going to do that you may as well taken our position from the GPS" I was met with some bemusement and on one occasion an insistence that it was 'ok' because it was a 'terrestrial position'.
Makes you wonder eh?
After all, if you give an idiot on the bridge of a ship brand new up to date equipment, it does not make him any less of an idiot, it just makes him more dangerous!
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  #8  
Old 15th November 2007, 22:07
sparkie2182 sparkie2182 is online now  
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quite right james.........
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  #9  
Old 16th November 2007, 08:55
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That last paragraph is very profound !! Nicely put Jim.

MikeK
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  #10  
Old 18th November 2007, 16:38
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James,
I think what you are getting at is generally known as 'data fusion'. This is the 'black art' of taking all available data and trying to make it into one picture! There are huge problems as you say with determining which data is correct. You can have ENC, GPS, AIS etc all showing a different position.

The thing to remember of course is that all these equipments are 'Aids to navigation' and there is no substitute for good old fashioned seamanship - which includes as I recall using your eyes!!
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  #11  
Old 19th November 2007, 17:57
Amanita Amanita is offline  
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Container ship hits SF bay bridge tower

Looks like the Cosco Busan's in quite a bit of trouble here. Anyone else hear anything about this?
So far it's looking like the ship's captain, the harbour pilot, and the coast guard have some explaining to do.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cg.../BAH3T81G7.DTL

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...F04M.DTL&tsp=1
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  #12  
Old 19th November 2007, 19:38
Amanita Amanita is offline  
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Ouch..I've been reading about that. I just posted the link to another story about this incident.
Sounds like the captain and the pilot really cocked this one up.
As for the ship herself, here's hoping they get the poor girl fixed up. What did she ever do to deserve a captain and pilot screwing up this badly?
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  #13  
Old 20th November 2007, 00:13
bobdurino bobdurino is offline  
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Bridge Smashing

For those of you who have never been to San Francisco, witnessed ship ops in the bay or for that matter been under or over the Oakland Bay Bridge, let me say - its a nasty navigation hazard. In the fog - for those of you who have never been to San Francisco, sailed the bay or witnessed vessel ops, its not uncommon for ships to ground on the approach to Oakland, ground on the approach to the shipping channel beneath the bridge - its dense fog. The Coast Guard runs a ship traffic control post on Treasure Island for the puropse of vessel master/pilot guidance. There is a Coast Guard Landing one mile as the crow files on the other side of TI. Other ships that have had a problem in the bay: USS Enterprise - ran aground in daylight under harbor Pilot command, the captain was reprimanded; A Hydai container ship ran aground 600 yards off the Oalkand marine terminal and 100 yards east of TF and the APL President Lincoln go stuck in the Oakland estuary between perpendiculars as she tried to do a 360 turn a low tide. The pilot was bummed.

As for the tide moving the oil around the bay and out to sea, the Army Corps of Engineers has a massive working model of the bay in Sausalito. It is used to plot currents and pollutants and I suggest they had the sutuation pegged before the press halucinated ecodisaster.

Its a mess, the welded seams of the ship might have ruptured below the waterline causing the spill. In retrospect, its bad but not as bad as it could have been.

Just to substantiate my bone fidies - I have a CG 6 Pack and have raced J24's and CC 50's in the bay for 30 years.
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  #14  
Old 20th November 2007, 23:42
SeaStoryWriter SeaStoryWriter is offline  
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Yeah, been through the gate a few times-fog you can slice off and currents that are two yards forward and one to the side (or back). With the number of incidents, and the size of modern ships, they may have to resort to an old method-tug assist. Considering the price of fuel, and with clean coal technologies (and the huge worldwide supply), we may be back to that too. When was the last time a lump of anthracite fouled a pelican?! Everything old may be new yet again.
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  #15  
Old 7th December 2007, 16:34
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From the Safety at sea website......................
SAN FRANCISCO 07 December – The pilot of the Cosco Busan, the ship that hit the Oakland Bay Bridge in San Francisco Bay on 7 November, has been formally accused of misconduct by the region’s Board of Pilot Commissioners.
John Cota is accused of “having reason to doubt whether the ship could safely proceed under the prevailing circumstances and proceeding on his course with insufficient information about the level of visibility along his intended route.” He is also charged with “proceeding at a speed that was excessive for the circumstances and failing to make full use of all available resources.” Specifically, he is accused of not making use of a tugboat tethered to the stern, failing to seek guidance from the Coast Guard’s Vessel Tracking System and not giving better instructions to the lookout.
Cota has 15 days to respond and to request a hearing. If he does ask for a hearing, the board will decide whether to hear the case or submit it to an Administrative Law Judge. If no hearing is requested the board can act on the charges.
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  #16  
Old 7th December 2007, 23:59
bobdurino bobdurino is offline  
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Bay Bridge Tag

Thank you for this update info. The pilot is toast. Even if he has a satisfactory alibi, his reputation is impuned, and he will loose the trust of captains and fellow pilots. He has been accused of speeding in fog. Speeding in fog aboard a 70,000 ton vessel. Wonder if this will affect his motor vehicle rating
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  #17  
Old 18th March 2008, 02:22
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Pilot charged with criminal negligence

SAN FRANCISCO - The pilot of a ship that spilled thousands of gallons of oil into San Francisco Bay last November was charged by federal prosecutors Monday with criminal negligence and breaking environmental laws.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080318/...e_us/bay_spill

Last edited by John Rogers; 18th March 2008 at 02:25..
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  #18  
Old 18th March 2008, 02:50
SN NewsCaster SN NewsCaster is offline
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Post US oil spill ship pilot charged (BBC News)

The pilot of a ship that spilt 58,000 gallons of oil into San Francisco Bay is charged with criminal negligence.

More from BBC News...
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  #19  
Old 18th March 2008, 08:13
Bill Davies Bill Davies is offline  
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Could set a new precedence!
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  #20  
Old 18th March 2008, 08:39
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Seems logical to me. Surely, the reason a vessel takes on a pilot is in the hopes of being guided safely to a secure berth. If said vessel hits rocks, runs aground or any such accident occurs whilst under the direction of the pilot he must surely bear the blame.
AB
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  #21  
Old 18th March 2008, 08:51
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Greetings,

I always thought that a ship was navigated in pilotage waters to, "Master's Orders and Pilot's advice", Panama Canal excepted. But I would also have though that poor if not bad "advice" should reckon in the apportionment of blame following an incident.

Aye

Pat Thompson

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  #22  
Old 18th March 2008, 09:11
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I was always led to believe that the Master bore ultimate responsibility, and the pilot could only advise.
Pat
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  #23  
Old 18th March 2008, 11:03
Dave Wilson Dave Wilson is offline  
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Well, Pat, traditionally that has always been the case but was seriously challenged in the 'Sea Empress' fiasco. Times are a changing and I would say that a change is long overdue.
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  #24  
Old 18th March 2008, 19:17
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In effect, what is being inferred here is that at the time of this incident, the vessel was not under the command of the master, but of a non crew member who may have only been aboard for ten minutes.
I suspect that "our learned friends" are behind this.
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  #25  
Old 18th March 2008, 20:24
Bill Davies Bill Davies is offline  
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Pat,
I do not think that is the inference at all. The Master is in command at all times and in the past the Pilot ( servant of the shipowner) offers his services and advises the Master. In cases where damage occurs which may be Pilot induced the Pilot is largely held blameless. The above seems to be a new stance on that long held belief.

PS: Know all about Panama and local Authorities dealing with errant Pilots
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