USS FITZGERALD/ACX CRYSTAL collision (merged threads) - Page 10 - Ships Nostalgia
23:05

Welcome
Welcome!Welcome to Ships Nostalgia, the world's greatest online community for people worldwide with an interest in ships and shipping. Whether you are crew, ex-crew, ship enthusiasts or cruisers, this is the forum for you. And what's more, it's completely FREE.

Click here to go to the forums home page and find out more.
Click here to join.
Log in
User Name Password

USS FITZGERALD/ACX CRYSTAL collision (merged threads)

User Tag List

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #226  
Old 26th August 2017, 09:55
Varley's Avatar
Varley Varley is offline   SN Supporter
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Active: 1971 - 2011
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 9,234
Perhaps the spokesperson is of unballasted mind?
Reply With Quote
  #227  
Old 26th August 2017, 10:14
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,072
The ultimate "Bull Crapper"!
Reply With Quote
  #228  
Old 26th August 2017, 10:48
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1973 - 1983
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 524
I think 'debalanced' should have been 'ballasted' and ' deballasted' .
If you 'debalance ' ( if that really is a word) a ship it will turn over and sink.
And that's all they need.
These vessels are like oil rig support ships but with a high forward accomodation, a heavy lift ship. HMS Edingburgh was brought back on one from Australia after she hit a stone pinnacle off the coast of Australia, similiar sort of thing really , poor seamanship. The 'old man' got a job on a sweeper after that, Road Sweeper.

Last edited by sternchallis; 26th August 2017 at 10:50..
Reply With Quote
  #229  
Old 26th August 2017, 11:03
Supergoods's Avatar
Supergoods Supergoods is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Navigation
Active: 1958 - 2015
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 813
Check USS Cole on the web, it was damaged by terrorists in Aden and brought on the Blue Marlin to Pascagoula.
It seems that nobody told the high ups that the crew of the Blue Marlin was mainly Russian, when they discovered this, they were already underway.
Now half the semi-submersible ships are Chinese so should make for some interesting conversations.
Reply With Quote
  #230  
Old 26th August 2017, 12:06
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,616
#228

How very odd.

When HMS Nottingham struck a rock adjacent to Lord Howe Island and was carried back to UK as described, it is fairly well documented that the Captain's career survived intact and that some promotion followed.
Reply With Quote
  #231  
Old 26th August 2017, 12:20
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1973 - 1983
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#228

How very odd.

When HMS Nottingham struck a rock adjacent to Lord Howe Island and was carried back to UK as described, it is fairly well documented that the Captain's career survived intact and that some promotion followed.
Thanks for the ship correction.



Just checked on Wikipedia and I saw that the No. 1 was in charge and the Captain was doing a bit of wining and dining ashore when it happened. So perhaps the No. 1 lost his job.

No doubt the press assumed it was the captain who did this not his No. 1 who was commanding officer for the day.

No doubt the Captain said some thing to the effect of, " I leave you in charge of my ship for a few hours and you have to put a 160 foot slit in her hull and nearly lost it, wasn't you listening to me just before I left" when he got back on board.

Last edited by sternchallis; 26th August 2017 at 12:41.. Reason: Correct facts
Reply With Quote
  #232  
Old 26th August 2017, 12:29
chadburn chadburn is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by sternchallis View Post
Thanks for the ship correction.

I know the Engineer Officer got the MBE for saving the ship and promotion, but did not know the Captain retained his job. Perhaps promoted beyond competence and given a stone frigate. He must have had contacts in high places, like days of old.

Perhaps their Lordships changed their minds from when I last saw an article.
I believe the CO was not onboard at the time of the incident.
__________________
Geordie Chief

From Grey Funnel to any Funnel, just show him/ me the money Mabel
Reply With Quote
  #233  
Old 26th August 2017, 12:34
Binnacle's Avatar
Binnacle Binnacle is offline  
Senior Member
Department: Deck
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,927
Third mate on a tramp steamer eastward bound in the Straits of Gibralter I noted that the compass bearing of a ship on my port bow was not altering, there was still enough light left for me to see it was a warship, probably just sailed from Gib. As there was a fair bit of traffic around and a fellow hauling up on the starboard quarter my actions were limited if he failed to observe Rule 19 (steam vessels crossing). Eventually she gave way but was so close I could see the figures on her bridge. It was one of His Majesty’s cruisers. Ignorance and/or failure to observe the International Collision Regulations is not confined to US naval ships. We safely tramped around the world without any fancy navigational aids, just a compass and DF but we observed the normal practice of mariners without fail, thanks to an Old Man who was one of the old school and insisted on such standards.
Reply With Quote
  #234  
Old 26th August 2017, 12:43
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#228

How very odd.

When HMS Nottingham struck a rock adjacent to Lord Howe Island and was carried back to UK as described, it is fairly well documented that the Captain's career survived intact and that some promotion followed.

He should have been sacked! His ship was close inshore. The CO was on a jolly ashore for no reason. He should have stayed with his ship and sent the Lt. go ashore. Would have been cheaper!
Reply With Quote
  #235  
Old 26th August 2017, 13:47
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,616
#234

He died a few weeks ago and all was recorded in his obituary. No doubt he appreciated that he was damn lucky. As I read the reports, he was in point of fact on board when the ship struck, having returned from his run ashore only a few minutes previously.
Reply With Quote
  #236  
Old 26th August 2017, 13:56
LouisB's Avatar
LouisB LouisB is offline  
Senior Member
Active: 1964 - 1995
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,475
Wasn't one of the excuses, the rock was hidden on the chart by a coffee stain?

LouisB
__________________
R814683
Reply With Quote
  #237  
Old 26th August 2017, 14:05
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,616
Perhaps. Or fly-sh1t.
Reply With Quote
  #238  
Old 26th August 2017, 14:06
LouisB's Avatar
LouisB LouisB is offline  
Senior Member
Active: 1964 - 1995
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,475
Sent to me by a retired Cdr RN

Sent to one of the Navy websites from an RN officer with experience of USN. Guess it should be taken at face value, but maybe elements of truth?


A USN OOD (Officer of the Deck) has a Conning Officer (CONN) and a JOOD (Junior OOD) on watch with them. None of them know how to navigate. Navigation is done by the ratings (enlisted) Quartermaster (QM) branch. One QM plots bearings and ranges whilst two others take the bearings and ranges. If using ECDIS, known as VMS (Voyage Management System) essentially a civilian ECDIS, then GPS is supposed to be checked by other means. Then they have a CIC (Combat Information Center) = Ops Rm. So 6+, on the bridge doing what one civilian Mate or an RN OOW does.
To save money you then cancel the equivalent of OOW course, then re-instate a watered down version 5 years later, close the equivalent of COLLINGWOOD's Nav school, cancel all astro navigation for 9 years (done by the QMs, not officers), then re-instate both; the horrible reality is that the USN has got away with it until now. The WHOLE Fleet is undergoing a safety stand-down and operational pause so that all ships can conduct safety briefs and training. All operationd activity has ceased. Window dressing is what the COs of several ships have said. Firing a 3* is pure politics. The USN knows bad things happen in threes....
It's sad. The USN officer core just doesn't get it, except those that have done exchange jobs with the RN. They get it and are absolutely appalled at USN standards. Those selected as COs frequently go to their ships having not been to sea for 5 years and with a total sea time in the order of 6 years (Bridge and Ops Rm)! Many go as XO for 2 years, then "Fleet Up" to CO in the same ship.
The 4 Rota based DDGs are undergoing OST at FOST; two so far including participating in Joint Warrior. USN staff returning from supporting their ships are staggered by the professional and uncomprosing standards of FOST. Perhaps CVF/CVN Ops may help lift the US game. USS BUSH where amazed at the capability and professionalism of the UK Carrier Strike Group team during SAXON WARRIOR - and this is USN Junior Officers comparing the two staffs!

LouisB
__________________
R814683
Reply With Quote
  #239  
Old 26th August 2017, 15:00
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,072
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#234

He died a few weeks ago and all was recorded in his obituary. No doubt he appreciated that he was damn lucky. As I read the reports, he was in point of fact on board when the ship struck, having returned from his run ashore only a few minutes previously.
RIP!

Not the way to go.

Just recently I spoke a friend, Commander RN Retd (Supply). Long story but he was a second trip Midshipman. The ship was doing in the Solent and got into difficulties, not to do with navigation. The Lt. on the bridge was more interested in the 'difficulty'. The midshipman told the QM, "Steer 222 degrees. Stop Engines! Half Astern. Stop. Let go!" The captain arrived on the bridge and said, "Who anchored?" The Middy said, "Sir" Sir! I did! Sir!" Happened years ago. Must have been good conversation in the wardroom.
Reply With Quote
  #240  
Old 26th August 2017, 15:04
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1973 - 1983
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#234

He died a few weeks ago and all was recorded in his obituary. No doubt he appreciated that he was damn lucky. As I read the reports, he was in point of fact on board when the ship struck, having returned from his run ashore only a few minutes previously.
Speaking with an ex RN officer type shortly after the incident, the excuse given was, " They were landing a helicopter on the After Deck ( perhaps with the Captain on board)". Perhaps nobody was minding the shop, they didn't know were they were in relation to the rock.
Reply With Quote
  #241  
Old 26th August 2017, 15:35
Stephen J. Card's Avatar
Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Posts: 9,072
Commander 'who ran aground' revealed to be ship's saviour

By Sean Rayment, Defence Correspondent
12:01AM BST 11 Aug 2002

The commander of Nottingham, the Royal Navy destroyer crippled when it struck rocks off the coast of Australia, will not be court-martialled but will instead be praised for his actions in saving the ship.
Senior naval officials have accepted that Cdr Richard Farrington - who said after the accident that he would face court-martial as surely "as the sun comes up in the morning" - should not be punished because he was not in charge of the £300 million vessel at the time.
An inquiry into the incident has established that the blame for the disaster cannot be passed on to 41-year-old Cdr Farrington because he had been on board the Nottingham for only about a minute before it ran aground.
Instead, senior officers are arguing that he should be commended for his quick thinking and leadership, which they accept "saved the ship from being sunk and probably saved many lives amongst his 253-strong crew".
Cdr Farrington became the focus of national attention last month when, hours after his ship had hit Wolf Rock, 400 miles north-east of Sydney, he told television crews the incident was "not a good day for me".
Related Articles
HMS Nottingham hits rocks 08 Jul 2002
Destroyer hits massive rock 09 Jul 2002
HMS Nottingham towed away 07 Aug 2002
The ashen-faced officer said: "Just as the sun comes up in the morning, if you run your ship aground you get court martialled. It hazarded the lives of 250 men and women. We have done significant damage to a major British warship.
"This is quite the worst thing that's ever happened, quite the worst character-building stuff. I'd say it's the worst feeling in the world."
The ignominy of the grounding was compounded last week as pictures were beamed around the world of the crippled vessel being towed towards port by two Australian tugs.
The inquiry into the accident on July 11, however, has discovered that shortly before it occurred, Cdr Farrington had handed over command of the destroyer to a lieutenant while he flew by helicopter to the mainland with a sailor in need of urgent medical treatment.
When Cdr Farrington returned, the lieutenant ordered the Nottingham to perform a U-turn to allow the helicopter to land with the wind in the correct direction.
As the ship performed the manoeuvre, the wind speed reached 25 knots and the swell rose to 12ft. The Lynx helicopter landed safely but as the commander was making his way to the bridge, the swell lifted the ship and brought it crashing down onto the reef, ripping open its hull.
A senior naval official based in Portsmouth, the home port of the Nottingham, said: "Cdr Farrington will not be punished for the accident. The accident was not his fault. That is a fact which has now been accepted.
"He quickly took command of the vessel and made a brilliant assessment of the situation. It was his leadership and clear thinking that prevented the ship from sinking and endangering the lives of his crew."
The Telegraph understands that Cdr Farrington publicly suggested that the accident was his fault in part to protect the reputation of the lieutenant in charge of the ship.
The naval official said: "Cdr Farrington was attempting to deflect criticism from the young lieutenant in charge of the vessel. He had agreed with the Ministry of Defence in London that the press line must be that the accident was his fault and that they should reiterate the public statement he had made after the accident."
Cdr Farrington's actions have attracted considerable praise from within the service: senior officers have privately let it be known that they believe he has upheld the best traditions of the Royal Navy.
The future of Nottingham, which is currently alongside the port of Newcastle, New South Wales, has yet to be decided. Naval chiefs have decided to spend £3 million to charter a heavy-lift cargo ship to carry her back to Britain, where a final judgement will be taken on whether she should be repaired or scrapped.
The priority is to safely dispose of the Sea Dart missiles, the ship's main armament, which were damaged by water. Royal Navy technicians will spend the next two weeks removing the weapons, which could become unstable and explode if they dry out.
Reply With Quote
  #242  
Old 26th August 2017, 18:06
chadburn chadburn is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 10,573
Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
#234

He died a few weeks ago and all was recorded in his obituary. No doubt he appreciated that he was damn lucky. As I read the reports, he was in point of fact on board when the ship struck, having returned from his run ashore only a few minutes previously.
He was technically on board if you Class whilst landing in a Helicopter as being aboard, that's the same as the Pilot being aboard whilst climbing the Pilot Ladder.
As previously mentioned the CO quickly took charge of the situation.
__________________
Geordie Chief

From Grey Funnel to any Funnel, just show him/ me the money Mabel
Reply With Quote
  #243  
Old 26th August 2017, 19:40
Barrie Youde Barrie Youde is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 6,616
#242

Point taken, Chad.

But as a matter of mitigation or even as a defence it is a lenience which seems unlikely ever to be granted to a mercantile shipmaster.
Reply With Quote
  #244  
Old 26th August 2017, 19:58
Samsette's Avatar
Samsette Samsette is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 4,980
To a layman such as me, it seems that the more technology available to the seagoing fraternity, the more trouble they manage to get into.

Go back to the 1940s (WW2) - the US built the largest navy in the world and a huge merchant fleet, and MANNED it, with prairie boys, farmers sons, soda-jerks, gas jockeys and others who had never laid eyes on the ocean until arriving at their training schools. Simplicity appears to have served them well, in navigation and propulsion and, all in the face of a highly efficient enemy fleet of U-boats and attack from the air.

Today's losses are incurred while leisurely cruising from one port to another, under peacetime conditions.
Reply With Quote
  #245  
Old 6th December 2017, 01:34
kewl dude's Avatar
kewl dude kewl dude is online now  
Senior Member
Organisation: Other Merchant Fleets
Department: Engineering
Active: 1960 - 1976
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,483
http://gcaptain.com/us-navys-damaged...vous-in-japan/

U.S. Navy’s Damaged Destroyers Rendezvous in Japan

Attached: GCaptain-unnamed-1-750x420.jpg (89.4 KB)

I inflated it to 1554x870

Greg Hayden
Attached Images
File Type: jpg GCaptain-unnamed-1-750x420.jpg (89.4 KB, 51 views)
Reply With Quote
  #246  
Old 6th December 2017, 06:52
woodend's Avatar
woodend woodend is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1955 - Present
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,087
Thanks very much for that one 'Kiwi dude'. Lets hope that it is a one off occurrance!
I have loved that class since bringing the USS GETTYSBURG into Cape Town. I had a very interesting interview on the TV about why i gave permission for her tocome into the port. Had the $10 tour and I found her a very, very impressive ship.
Reply With Quote
  #247  
Old 6th December 2017, 08:58
alaric alaric is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1957 - 1968
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
My location
Posts: 1,064
OK. Problem solved. The US Navy has just launched a new "multifaceted branding campaign"
See http://gcaptain.com/us-navy-unveils-...eid=9bfade5ba6
Reply With Quote
  #248  
Old 6th December 2017, 10:16
5036's Avatar
5036 5036 is offline  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by alaric View Post
OK. Problem solved. The US Navy has just launched a new "multifaceted branding campaign"
See http://gcaptain.com/us-navy-unveils-...eid=9bfade5ba6
Shouldn't both wings be on one side, held up and extended in the crash position?

There is also a new veterans badge, the anchor replaced by a Zimmer frame and the logo "Forget by the Sea.
Reply With Quote
  #249  
Old 6th December 2017, 12:25
sternchallis sternchallis is offline
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Engineering
Active: 1973 - 1983
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 524
Are we talking about a Navy here or just another arm of Trumps golfing empire with marketing.

Should they have to 'brand' the Armed Forces in the "land of the free" where 75 % (guess) own a gun.

Damned weird country ( I know , I lived their for 9 years and couldn't leave fast enough).
Reply With Quote
  #250  
Old 6th December 2017, 14:37
Lurch's Avatar
Lurch Lurch is offline  
Senior Member
Organisation: Merchant Navy
Department: Deck
Active: 1973 - Present
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 173
Quote:
Originally Posted by LouisB View Post
Sent to me by a retired Cdr RN

Sent to one of the Navy websites from an RN officer with experience of USN. Guess it should be taken at face value, but maybe elements of truth?


A USN OOD (Officer of the Deck) has a Conning Officer (CONN) and a JOOD (Junior OOD) on watch with them. None of them know how to navigate. Navigation is done by the ratings (enlisted) Quartermaster (QM) branch. One QM plots bearings and ranges whilst two others take the bearings and ranges. If using ECDIS, known as VMS (Voyage Management System) essentially a civilian ECDIS, then GPS is supposed to be checked by other means. Then they have a CIC (Combat Information Center) = Ops Rm. So 6+, on the bridge doing what one civilian Mate or an RN OOW does.
To save money you then cancel the equivalent of OOW course, then re-instate a watered down version 5 years later, close the equivalent of COLLINGWOOD's Nav school, cancel all astro navigation for 9 years (done by the QMs, not officers), then re-instate both; the horrible reality is that the USN has got away with it until now. The WHOLE Fleet is undergoing a safety stand-down and operational pause so that all ships can conduct safety briefs and training. All operationd activity has ceased. Window dressing is what the COs of several ships have said. Firing a 3* is pure politics. The USN knows bad things happen in threes....
It's sad. The USN officer core just doesn't get it, except those that have done exchange jobs with the RN. They get it and are absolutely appalled at USN standards. Those selected as COs frequently go to their ships having not been to sea for 5 years and with a total sea time in the order of 6 years (Bridge and Ops Rm)! Many go as XO for 2 years, then "Fleet Up" to CO in the same ship.
The 4 Rota based DDGs are undergoing OST at FOST; two so far including participating in Joint Warrior. USN staff returning from supporting their ships are staggered by the professional and uncomprosing standards of FOST. Perhaps CVF/CVN Ops may help lift the US game. USS BUSH where amazed at the capability and professionalism of the UK Carrier Strike Group team during SAXON WARRIOR - and this is USN Junior Officers comparing the two staffs!

LouisB
It gets worse:

https://news.usni.org/2017/11/30/doc...l-nam-yang-502
Reply With Quote
Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
USS Zumwalt - Just Hit The Water - merged threads rickles23 News and Views from the Shipping World 23 22nd December 2013 22:43
Stena Feronia collision - merged threads BillH News and Views from the Shipping World 21 31st May 2012 16:51
Collision in S.F. Bay - Merged Threads SeaStoryWriter News and Views from the Shipping World 73 14th August 2009 07:51



Support SN


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.1.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.