Boards Covering Hatches - Problems with Water Ingress to Holds (1920s Steamer) - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
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Boards Covering Hatches - Problems with Water Ingress to Holds (1920s Steamer)

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  #26  
Old 15th May 2018, 21:07
Nswstar2 Nswstar2 is offline
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That is, indeed, a BEAUTIFUL cut-away image of a collier (great when zoomed up to 200% for close scrutiny). Thanks!
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  #27  
Old 16th May 2018, 00:02
tsell tsell is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephen J. Card View Post
Taff should be able to tell some answers. He was in a similar design collier SHEAF ARROW in 1952.

Here is a photo of one of the larger colliers, SHEAF FIELD. Basic design. Especially it show the bunker hatch just forward of the funnel... and with some boards not in position.

The weather deck doors (CAMLOUGH) seem to be simple wooden doors (shown on the model) no way to batten down the door.

Next message I will upload two images. Interesting images... pls wait for a few minutes. I need a strong tea!

Stephen
Hi, Stephen, I sailed on three ships that had the hatchboards laid athwartships that I recall and possibly one of the Norwegian ships.

'Sheaf Arrow' - couldn't ever forget replacing and re-cleating the two tarps on one hold, during the Biscay storm. It took four of us just to carry a folded tarp and we were under water most of the time - without snorkels!!

'Afon Gwili', also had her single tarp ripped in a storm - likewise replaced after shipping water. The coal was that wet it probably never burned!

'Trelew', Argentina - during filming in the storm depicted in Chapter 63 in Bahia Blanca adventures, reposted in Tusitala thread, 9/5/18, #329 .

As Lakercapt said, above, tossing those things around, built muscles!

Cheers,

Taff
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  #28  
Old 16th May 2018, 10:11
eddyw eddyw is offline  
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WTBs. Interesting cut-away of the "Tudor Queen" . Not all the apparent divisions would have been Water Tight Bulkheads. "Tudor Queen" entry in LR cites '3BH' so three WTBs:- These would be (1)collision bulkhead, forward of cargo space;(2) bulkhead at forward end of bunker/boiler/machinery space; (3) bulkhead between this space and after-peak. "Camlough" similar, '3BH'. This seems to have been usual for aft engine coasters below about 200' oa at this period.
I wonder if there was a Board of Trade 'Formal Inquiry' into stranding of the 'Camlough'? A report would have been published by HMSO. There isn't one in the on-line collection at plimsoll.org. The reports usually have a detailed technical description of the ship as well as examining the circumstances of the loss.

Last edited by eddyw; 16th May 2018 at 12:29..
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  #29  
Old 18th May 2018, 07:05
noelmavisk noelmavisk is offline  
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Hatchboards.

Actually I have a coffee-table in my living room that is made from a real wooden hatch-board complete with 2 metal banding bars and 2 metal hand-bars for lifting.. Quite a conversation piece. I covered it with tooling resin and it looks primo.
I know on the ships I sailed on they were placed thwart-ships.
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  #30  
Old 18th May 2018, 12:10
Monreith Boy Monreith Boy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eddyw View Post
.
I wonder if there was a Board of Trade 'Formal Inquiry' into stranding of the 'Camlough'? A report would have been published by HMSO. There isn't one in the on-line collection at plimsoll.org. The reports usually have a detailed technical description of the ship as well as examining the circumstances of the loss.
Haven't been able to trace one,eddyw. It would have made interesting reading! If one is found, I would love to be pointed towards it, please.
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  #31  
Old 18th May 2018, 13:58
Colin Johnson Colin Johnson is offline  
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Colin Johnson

I sailed on Bank Line Motor Vessels built in the early 50's which had wooden hatch covers covered with tarpaulin. On one trip we encountered a hurricane with extremely heavy seas without water ingress through the hatch covers.
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  #32  
Old 19th May 2018, 00:28
tsell tsell is offline
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Originally Posted by Colin Johnson View Post
I sailed on Bank Line Motor Vessels built in the early 50's which had wooden hatch covers covered with tarpaulin. On one trip we encountered a hurricane with extremely heavy seas without water ingress through the hatch covers.
Hi, Colin, of the three times I had to tend torn tarps, each one had come away at a corner of the hatch. This was a common problem caused by lack of diligence in cleating and wedging. Wedges had to be checked and hammered often, as some would tend to ease after a few days.
I'm talking about ships in the early 50s, but I'm aware that there were later improvements.

Coincidentally, a while back, I was reading about the loss of the Edmund Fitzgerald on the Great Lakes in November 1975.
The report by the Coast Guard Board concluded that the hold flooded as a result of "ineffective hatch closure". It was further stated that this was due to the failure of the crew to properly maintain hatch covers, coamings and clamps that hold the covers securely in place, which played a significant role in the sinking.
Water entering a hold displaces the volume of air and as more water enters, the rising air pocket causes the hatch covers to explode away from the coamings, which has a compounding effect.
I recall reading that the initial gaps in between the hatch boards were only a half inch wide. It doesn't take much!

Taff
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  #33  
Old 19th May 2018, 02:59
pbrock_2001 pbrock_2001 is offline  
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Originally Posted by barrypriddis View Post
If memory serves me right I am sure that the hatchboards on Palm boats, supported by king and queen beams, had a slight camber to allow water to drain off. Certainly never interferred with deck cargo. The king and queen beams also co-incided with the athwartship beams of supporting the deck.
I have many fond memories of being on the Badagary palm, going along the west coast of Africa and all the deck cargoes.
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  #34  
Old 19th May 2018, 04:29
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Wooden hatch boards
This takes me back to 1951 when hatch covers became a disputed item during the lead up to the New Zealand waterfront strike and the de registration of the NZ Waterfront workers Union.
This led to the Government sending in the armed forces, police units , and other willing bodies , including the crews of stranded ships , to provide cargo handling labour for more than three months until a new trade union was established .
This emergency labour was paid hourly rates the same as those paid to the recalcitrant original workers and the ships turnaround rates exceeded that of many preceding years . Most of the military earnings went into social funds for the troops etc while ships crews worked outside their ship duty hours to receive a good return.
I have read posts a year or to back from SN members who were beneficiaries .

Getting back to the hatch boards , a liberty ship laden with sorely needed wheat had arrived in stream and was anchored due to port crowding and to a decision by the waterside workers that the wooden hatch boards only had one hand hold each end and that the weight of each plank necessitated hand holds for four men.
It was an outrageous claim for a piece of say 10" x 2 1/2 " Oregon timber 12' to 15' long.
Poultry farmers in urgent need of wheat feed for their flocks formed a protest group that stormed the ship in stream accompanied by the press and photographers and a elderly slightly built farmer was photographed holding a hatch board above his head.
This excited most of the public fence sitters to lose patience with the "Wharfies " ,as they were known , and subsequent events led to the sackings.
I was a 16 year old schoolboy at the time and travelling to school every day on the Harbour ferries I had a ringside view of the goings on. At one stage there were 17 overseas ships at anchor in the inner harbour and several more sitting in the Rangitoto Channel .

Bob
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  #35  
Old 25th May 2018, 03:53
stillwaters stillwaters is offline  
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Doing a number of trips on the MV Piri, an explosive carrying ship of 275 tons, bring the cargo back from Altona, Melbourne to NZ. We carried the cases of Gelignite in the main hold which had to kept bone dry as I believe water had a devastating effect if mixed. We too had the Hatch Boards and Tarps and regular inspections was the norm, with very little freeboard when loaded it was a full time watch on the hatch.. The detonators were kept in the Forepeak locker as obviously the two don't mix, unless you wanted to leave the Planet.. So yes the Hatch Boards and Tarps did a great job, most times.
Cheers
Ewen
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  #36  
Old 25th May 2018, 06:07
AncientCanuckMariner AncientCanuckMariner is offline  
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Boards covering hatches

When I was serving my time (1945-1949) all our ships had this arrangement, with three tarps, battens and wedges. Never any trouble.
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  #37  
Old 25th May 2018, 15:38
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Some of the smaller old coasters did in fact have longitudinal beams with thwartship hatch boards, one that springs to mind was the 1931 built Irvings coaster "Ashdene", unusual yes, but there were exceptions to the norm. Bruce
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  #38  
Old 25th May 2018, 16:43
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Stephen J. Card Stephen J. Card is offline  
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Quite possibility the boards are longitudinal means the hatch can built to for special hatch width. If the board are laid athwartships it means the hatch can less or more than what the standard boards can laid.

Stephen
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  #39  
Old 25th May 2018, 20:39
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What was the standard length, width and thickness of a hatch board and what was the normal timber used?

Bob
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  #40  
Old 25th May 2018, 23:45
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Hatchboard ex 'Captain Leonidas' ( built 1937 , wrecked 1968 on Bajo Cotapaxi ) in use at the CONAF base at Puerto Eden, Chile. Quite a few of these can be found around the town in use as 'duckboards'..

The footprints should give an idea of size.... the wood must be pretty durable as it is still sound. Steel banding can be seen at the ends. Two planks to a board and I think they were maybe two and a half inches thick.

By the mid 1950's Clan Line was using wooden 'slab' hatches maybe 6' x 6' with traditional boards as shown in the pic at the sides so that holds and cargoes could be ventilated at sea .

Canvas was oldest on top, second oldest on the hatch and newest in the middle.... or the other way around.....
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File Type: jpg IMG_0044.JPG.jpg (112.7 KB, 21 views)
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Last edited by Cisco; 25th May 2018 at 23:56..
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  #41  
Old 25th May 2018, 23:45
lakercapt lakercapt is online now  
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Hatch boards were of two sizes(digging far into the memory banks) and a standard width. 6 feet and 12 feet and 2 feet wide in two parts. I think they were about 4 inch thick.They were made with hard wood and banded at each end. Handles were cut out and a metal band used for lifting. The handles were not opposite but at a cock. Initially they were marked for each hold so they ciuldnot be mixed. As I mentioned earlier they were heavy but with two of you lifting and swinging in rythm you stacked them on top of the hatch and two others would spread them marrying them if necessary. As I said it was a long time ago so I might be mistaken.
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  #42  
Old 25th May 2018, 23:53
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And also.... if you look closely bottom right on the pic above.... you can see a circle... full of ice.... that is where the wood is 'scooped out' and a bit of steel bar maybe a centimetre in diameter fitted as a handle.
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  #43  
Old 28th May 2018, 16:02
Aberdonian Aberdonian is offline  
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Certainly in the 50s it was laid down that wooden hatchboards be at least 2.5 inches thick and athwartship beams placed so that unsupported length of board does not exceed 4.5 feet. The steel angles on which the ends rest are at least 2.5 inches wide.

Keith
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  #44  
Old 28th May 2018, 17:52
Wallace Slough Wallace Slough is online now  
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I sailed on Victory, C-2's and C-3's, all of which had wooden hatch boards. The steel hatch beams were placed thwart ships into slots in the hatch coaming, and the wooden hatch boards were placed fore and aft onto the steel hatch beams. Tarps, cross battens, and wedges were installed over the hatch boards to secure the hatch. I also recall steel pontoons which were used in the lower holds if memory serves correctly.
As a very young Chief Mate, I was instructed by the Captain to make sure that all the wedges were installed in the forward hatches as the improper securing of Hatch #1 had lead to the loss of the Pan Oceanic Faith a couple of years earlier. I forwarded this order to the Bosun who failed to carry out my order and then caught holy hell from the Captain as his order had not been carried out. It was an excellent lesson for a very young mate that just because he'd given an order did not mean that it had been carried out.
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  #45  
Old 28th May 2018, 18:40
lakercapt lakercapt is online now  
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Wedges are inserted :-Hypotenuse against the hatch.
From a old "chippy" who was a fund of information.
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  #46  
Old 28th May 2018, 18:50
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I remember the newspaper For Sale ads for ex-Liberty ship hatch boards, after a number of those ships had been broken up in Pacific Northwestern yards. Suggestions for use included conversion into coffee tables but, unless you were lucky enough to get one in good condition you would need a lot of sandpaper.
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  #47  
Old 28th May 2018, 19:14
Wallace Slough Wallace Slough is online now  
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We would always make it a practice to purchase new wooden hatch boards in the Pacific Northwest before traveling south to Los Angeles as they were much cheaper up north. Upon arrival in LA, it was normal practice for an inspection to take place wherein a number of hatch boards would be condemned and we'd replace them with those we'd purchased up north. I'll always remember the sad look on the inspectors face when it turned out we had a surplus of extra hatch boards available and didn't have to order any from what I'm sure was his own supplier!
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  #48  
Old 28th May 2018, 22:13
Bill.B Bill.B is offline  
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#45 Lakercapt. Absolutely right. Would like a pound for every wooden wedge I have seen with the corner knocked off due to being put in the wrong way round.
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  #49  
Old 29th May 2018, 00:09
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#45 Lakercapt. Absolutely right. Would like a pound for every wooden wedge I have seen with the corner knocked off due to being put in the wrong way round.
I'll never forget my first introduction to wedging the tarps. Working alongside an AB, he took a wedge that I was about to place into a cleat, from my hand and tapped it none too gently on my head saying, "This side in, dummy!" Then showed me which side had hit my head. I never forgot again!

Taff
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  #50  
Old 29th May 2018, 17:20
Rogerfrench Rogerfrench is offline  
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Originally Posted by Barrie Youde View Post
Every boarded hatch which I ever saw was flat. The reasons for that, I'd guess,
were twofold. First, any raised camber in the middle, running fore & aft would make the creation of a watertight seal at the fore-end and after end more difficult; and, secondly, a flat hatch-top left a convenient flat open space for deck-cargo, when required.

The more recent McGregor hatches worked on entirely different principles.
Sorry, Barrie, I saw several where the beams and end coamings were cambered, and the boards, laid fore and aft , naturally followed the camber. Not a big camber, maybe the same as the deck? certainly not enough to hamper a watertight seal with tarps, battens and wedges.
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