Antenna identification - Page 2 - Ships Nostalgia
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  #26  
Old 7th October 2019, 20:25
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Organisation: Merchant Navy
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Ref my post at #17 , the 'advantage' of the rotating loop was that you knew the ships head and so where you should be looking. Sensing was not a problem.

Check bearings were difficult, especially with a very large 'lump' of metal as in my #12 . The lighthouses on the South African coast were favourite especially northbound when the prevailing currents meant the best track was close to the coast. The only check I did involving rotating the ship (not the one in #12 but the same AEI version of the BT Fixed loop)) was at St Francis light at Durban. We logged arrival time, then dropped back to check the DF.

David
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  #27  
Old 7th October 2019, 22:23
gordonarfur gordonarfur is offline
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Unfortunately, leaving Liverpool for Auckland we needed to calibrate the DF. asked the old man to slowly rotate the ship when the pilot had left, moans and groans from the bridge as if a half hour delay was going to affect our eta in Auckland. idiot mates !!!
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  #28  
Old 9th October 2019, 06:06
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R651400 R651400 is online now
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Sailed with both Bellini Tosi and rotating loop DF aerials.
The latter with a Greek 2nd mate never confident with his sextant asked me when well off the Brazilian coast to confirm his noon sighting with a DF bearing. I think there were days when my bearing went down on the chart instead of his noon calculatioons.
|nother Greek (American) captain insisted when leaving port day or night all the navigational aids Radar Loran and DF were to be switched on and ready for use.
I complied with his request but insisted though the Lodestone DF was switched on "night effect" error meant categorically no DF bearings outside daylight hours on my part.
Regarding long range navigational accuracy before Inmarsat? Doubt there was anything that could outclass Loran.
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  #29  
Old 9th October 2019, 11:49
spaarks spaarks is offline  
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Originally Posted by R651400 View Post
Regarding long range navigational accuracy before Inmarsat? Doubt there was anything that could outclass Loran.
I agree.
Loran A wasn't very accurate as it relied on pulse (envelope) matching and was on MF - with major skywave problems. But Loran C was great - it was on LF (100kHz I think) and was cycle matching.
We needed the accuracy for cable work.

There was also OMEGA which had a longer range, on VLF, but wasn't accurate enough for us.

The Decca DL21 was a superb piece of engineering. Me and John Otley did a three-week course on it at the Decca training school (in the west country I think) in the '70s.

You set it up to manually lock on to the 3rd cycle of each transmitter, using a built-in scope. and then it automatically tracked the third cycle - hopefully. The main problem was QRN at night especially in the tropics. Of course, as the 'expert' I was often called out to reset the matching.

Later fully automatic units were developed and took all the fun out of it.

The 'fun' came back with the Magnavox Satnav (Transit) with its big helical aerial and HP2100 computer. The 'fun' came in programming it. You had to manually enter the bootstrap loader via the front panel keyboard, in Octal. 017700 is burnt into my brain! Then you loaded the program on punched paper tape using the ASR33 tape reader. Took about 45 minutes - if it didn't jam!

Mobile phones aren't half as much fun!
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  #30  
Old 9th October 2019, 15:02
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Varley Varley is online now   SN Supporter
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I remember that on Conoco Europe. Not sure about the model number but ours was cassette tape loaded. Never managed to get it to work. I think our mini was Honeywell but that also is time misted.
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  #31  
Old 9th October 2019, 18:36
P.Arnold P.Arnold is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gordonarfur View Post
Unfortunately, leaving Liverpool for Auckland we needed to calibrate the DF. asked the old man to slowly rotate the ship when the pilot had left, moans and groans from the bridge as if a half hour delay was going to affect our eta in Auckland. idiot mates !!!
As. Marconi tech (Liverpool) we often had to sail with a ship from Liverpool to Point Lynas, Anglesey to do a calibration. We would establish at the beginning who was in ‘control’. I used to establish a DF gong every 10’ on the DF with the nav’ using voice pipe to signal the visual, as the ship did a circle off P. Lynas. Would draw up the QE curve, sometimes with a note as to the deck cargo.
We would leave the ship with the pilot and the ‘docking bottle’ and spend a night at the Pilot’s “hotel” on Anglesey, then hitch a lift back to Liverpool with one of the pilots.
It wasn’t always that easy when asking the old man to do a second turn, the ship’s rate of turn seemed to be 10 times faster than the first,...... but fun.
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  #32  
Old 10th October 2019, 23:22
BOB87 BOB87 is offline
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Hi Denis,.. I too was at Hardcastle Street:.. a Lifetime ago,..I remember the DF, the Hermes and other stuff;( was the smaller radar a KH? ) but the Q29 was burned in my brain,...remembering the 4 Stages and of course reproducing the full schematic circuit:.. Anyway,..on an Ore carrier, I tried, (with the Old Mans previous permission) to do a DF calibration prior to us leaving Birkenhead,..(or was it M'boro?), ore terminals are very similar, lol: :.. Bottom line:.. With the 3rd Officer uptop doing the visuals, and Me in the Wireless Room, (Big Sign on the ever open door),...taking synchronised readings,.. we never got past 180 degrees,.. each time we swung,.. we had to stop and get outta someones elses way. Three times we tried,.. He then gave up,.. and said " Make do with what you have Sparks ,we're getting underway " .....bit, but, but... "No Buts"...and that was that,...I've often thought that if Sparks were to contribute some of their own experiences, and put them all in a book,... it would be an absolute Treasure of "Life in the Radio Room,.. Warts and All ",...lol
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  #33  
Old 11th October 2019, 02:18
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Wismajorvik Wismajorvik is offline  
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Not DF but I was on a Magnavox satnav course, (possibly at Muirheads). Never saw one again. Played with a Canadian Marconi Company satnav but never on a vessel. Worked with SHORAN and Alpine positioning systems. Only time I tried to use Loran was approaching the Virgin Islands, no joy. Once docked discovered the settings as indicated in the ALRS were incorrect.
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  #34  
Old 11th October 2019, 09:39
spaarks spaarks is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BOB87 View Post
Hi Denis,.. I too was at Hardcastle Street:.. a Lifetime ago,..I remember the DF, the Hermes and other stuff;( was the smaller radar a KH? ) but the Q29 was burned in my brain,...remembering the 4 Stages and of course reproducing the full schematic circuit:.. Anyway,..on an Ore carrier, I tried, (with the Old Mans previous permission) to do a DF calibration prior to us leaving Birkenhead,..(or was it M'boro?), ore terminals are very similar, lol: :.. Bottom line:.. With the 3rd Officer uptop doing the visuals, and Me in the Wireless Room, (Big Sign on the ever open door),...taking synchronised readings,.. we never got past 180 degrees,.. each time we swung,.. we had to stop and get outta someones elses way. Three times we tried,.. He then gave up,.. and said " Make do with what you have Sparks ,we're getting underway " .....bit, but, but... "No Buts"...and that was that,...I've often thought that if Sparks were to contribute some of their own experiences, and put them all in a book,... it would be an absolute Treasure of "Life in the Radio Room,.. Warts and All ",...lol
Hi Bob. You must have been in a later class than me - I got my tickets in 64. At that time there was no Hermes, just a K-H as you say. The examiner put a superconducting valve in it which stumped everybody - but he talked us through it. I guess it was a good way to determine if we knew the circuits.
Aye, the Q29. I recall the first line. "S1 closes energising SA". Broder Tuff, the instructor, who is on the AMERES facebook page, says he can still draw the circuit!
There was a shortage of R/Os in those days and I got a job with BP Tankers without even an interview!
Such a book might be banned!
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  #35  
Old 11th October 2019, 15:23
Old Se Dog Old Se Dog is offline
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city of worcester

enjoyed your post re the city of worcester and the europa here is what i believe the ship you sailed on is
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  #36  
Old 13th October 2019, 21:51
IvortheEngine IvortheEngine is offline  
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enjoyed your post re the city of worcester and the europa here is what i believe the ship you sailed on is
That's the one Old Se Dog...lovely ship...did a triple header on her 23.10.74 to 22.9.75 (went home while she coasted the UK and rejoined for the next deep sea voyage).

Regards

Ivor
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  #37  
Old 14th October 2019, 02:20
duncs duncs is offline  
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I used the DF many times. On a Texaco VLCC, to rendezvous with a lighter in the Gulf of Mexico, in continuous overcast conditions, no sights for days, it was the DF/DR that put us spot on. Used it on the Irrawady entrance in thick fog, and was quite stunned when the OM(old time Bankliner), went with my bearings.
Also used it in a distress situation. It proved very helpful.
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  #38  
Old 14th October 2019, 07:50
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Troppo2 Troppo2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spaarks View Post
Hi Bob. You must have been in a later class than me - I got my tickets in 64. At that time there was no Hermes, just a K-H as you say. The examiner put a superconducting valve in it which stumped everybody - but he talked us through it. I guess it was a good way to determine if we knew the circuits.
Aye, the Q29. I recall the first line. "S1 closes energising SA". Broder Tuff, the instructor, who is on the AMERES facebook page, says he can still draw the circuit!
There was a shortage of R/Os in those days and I got a job with BP Tankers without even an interview!
Such a book might be banned!
Broder transferred to the Australian maritime College.
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