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  #351  
Old 29th January 2018, 15:02
peterlball peterlball is offline
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TAKSANG menu June 1956 on passage Singapore to Penang =
Fleet list as follows Eastern Queen/ Glory/ Saga/ Star/ Muse/ Argosy (building) then the Sang boats with translations and not using capital letters = wosang or harmonious growing/ loksang or happy growing/ choysang or rich growing/ chunsang or spring growing/ hinsang or prominent growing/ hangsang or always growing/ hewsang or dawn growing/ hopsang or propitious growing/ west indian (Wingsang) or perpetual growing/ taksang shown as both vigorous growing and as virtuous growing, finally hosang with unreadable v.... (?) growing. The missing letters for hosang number only 3 or 4 and its not vital or vast. Anybody got any ideas.
The menu is rather stodgy and heavy for a tropical lunch = beef barley soup/smoked fish/chicken croquettes/roast leg of pork with roast and boiled potatoes and boiled cabbage/ mixed fruit/coffee. Guess with the copious food and cheap booze and wild runs ashore in port then the early compulsory retirement age of 55 years was essential. Hope you all can follow that. From Peter Ballantyne
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  #352  
Old 30th January 2018, 16:36
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Thanks, Peter. Nothing wrong with the food! Made me the man I am to-day though luckily it does not show up in my weight, which is now just three pounds more when I had my medical upon joining Jardines in January 1956. 168 v 165.

I'll direct Bob Tatz to your message just in case he has not picked up on it.

Nick
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  #353  
Old 30th January 2018, 17:57
peterlball peterlball is offline
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Google is very confusing for the word "HO". Seems to focus on the sanskrit word which means "To be oneself", but that cannot be it for ICSN Co. Nearest I can find is ... "HO" = "well" or "quality". That would fit as... Ho Sang = Well Growing or Quality Growing. But that does not look like the short unreadable printout word that I have on the TakSang menu starting with "V". Anybody have any Chinese friends or relatives that can improve on this. as for in the context of the other ship name translations all ending in "Growing" ?
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  #354  
Old 30th January 2018, 22:40
BTZ BTZ is offline  
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Hello Peter, long time "no-see"! I trust you have been keeping well. Thank you so much for the "Sang" interpretations and the yummy menu on the Tak Sang. I was Chief Engineer on the Tak Sang from November 1957 to July 1958. I had my wife with me on the leg to Japan and back. I think Groundwater was Master? Those were happy days! Thank you Nick for managing this information. Cheers.
Bob
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  #355  
Old 31st January 2018, 14:46
peterlball peterlball is offline
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Hi Bob. Can you remember how long the full round voyage generally was on TAKSANG for say Calcutta-Japan-Calcutta and about how long were the different port stays generally. Must have been plenty of flexibility in the schedules and maybe only three round voyages a year, barely four, what with dockings and typhoons and strong monsoons. From Peter Ballantyne
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  #356  
Old 31st January 2018, 16:24
BTZ BTZ is offline  
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Peter, that is a tuffy, but here goes. I think I did two trips, but it could well be four. Tak Sang was my first ship after my marriage in November in HK, and it was on its way to Calcutta. Bob Houghton was my second engineer. On the second (?) trip, my wife joined me on the round trip to Japan. In Kobe I took a few days off the ship and me and my wife went to Kyoto for several days, after which I rejoined the ship in Kobe. We also stopped in Shanghai on the return trip to HK, and did a day tour of the city with my wife. Outside of that, it was just the usual ports, and how long we stayed in them I cannot remember. I joined the Hew Sang as Chief in July 1958, and my second engineer was George Hurford; 2/O was Jan Jenson, and Povey was C/O.

I will give more thought to your questions, and will be in touch if I have further information.

Cheers,
Bob
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  #357  
Old 31st January 2018, 20:20
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Peter,

Ho Sang was the Active Growing. Luckily I have a good shot of the ship and the name is quite clear though I cannot be 100% sure if 'active' was a adjective chosen but certainly it would have been something very close. My first job as mate and I had to be active to stay one jump ahead of John Preston, the master, who kept forgetting he was no longer a mate.


Nick
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  #358  
Old 17th February 2018, 19:57
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwilson89 View Post
someone has suggested it would be a good idea if each contributor could wrack his brains and make a list of the men he sailed with. I am starting with the Argosy......

All the best,

Nick
Very disappointed my post has had such a dismal response.

I am therefore setting you a new test.

Good Masters: 'John L' Sullivan, Maxie Groundwater, Jan Jensen, Laurie Cox, Frankie Main, Terry Nicholls, Ron Learoyd.

So-so Masters: 'Gentleman Jim' Thompson, 'Chalkie' White, John Preston, Tommy Marr, Jimmie Fotheringham, Duncan Kinnear, George Taylor

Unpleasant Masters: Hector Cairns

Incidentally all the good masters were 'English', most of the so-so ones Scottish or Polish, and the only unpleasant one, surprisingly, a New Zealander and then, and for many years after, the only antipodean to have command!

Any comments?

Nick
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  #359  
Old 19th February 2018, 16:10
maltesejohn maltesejohn is offline  
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Originally Posted by Jon Elliott View Post
Robert, are you still on this site? I sailed with you on the ROVER; You were Mate, Spider Murphy was 2/O and I was a brand new 3/0. And later on the MAID, when you were Master, Don Gibbons was Mate and I was 2/0. Rocky Fitzgerald was 3/O, later relieved by Sudzee Burton.
Jon Elliott
Hi John Elliott,
JOHN Cauchi from Malta here... were you with me while you were Chief Officer MV Ocean Thistle or MV Mountain Thistle or MV Liwo Venture? Malcolm Jones 3rd mate, Doug 2nd mate from Glasgow???
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  #360  
Old 19th February 2018, 16:19
maltesejohn maltesejohn is offline  
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Originally Posted by Jon Elliott View Post
Robert, are you still on this site? I sailed with you on the ROVER; You were Mate, Spider Murphy was 2/O and I was a brand new 3/0. And later on the MAID, when you were Master, Don Gibbons was Mate and I was 2/0. Rocky Fitzgerald was 3/O, later relieved by Sudzee Burton.
Jon Elliott
Hi John Elliott,
JOHN Cauchi from Malta here... were you with me while you were Chief Officer MV Ocean Thistle or MV Mountain Thistle or MV Liwo Venture? Malcolm Jones 3rd mate, Doug Rae 2nd mate from Glasgow???
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  #361  
Old 20th February 2018, 02:20
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No, not me, John. I was never in any of the bulkers and went ashore in 1970.

Jon
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  #362  
Old 20th February 2018, 02:52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickwilson89 View Post
Very disappointed my post has had such a dismal response.

I am therefore setting you a new test.

Good Masters: 'John L' Sullivan, Maxie Groundwater, Jan Jensen, Laurie Cox, Frankie Main, Terry Nicholls, Ron Learoyd.

So-so Masters: 'Gentleman Jim' Thompson, 'Chalkie' White, John Preston, Tommy Marr, Jimmie Fotheringham, Duncan Kinnear, George Taylor

Unpleasant Masters: Hector Cairns

Incidentally all the good masters were 'English', most of the so-so ones Scottish or Polish, and the only unpleasant one, surprisingly, a New Zealander and then, and for many years after, the only antipodean to have command!

Any comments?

Nick
Good morning Nick!
I would like to add in Graham Taylor; he was Master in the MAID when i was Mate there, and i found him to be a great guy to sail with. He didn't interfere unnecessarily, and was always good for some sage advice. His wife had a pub in Osaka, and i recall it served very good steak!
David Wilson was Master in the ROVER when i was a brand new 3/O, and was ok when he was by himself, although rather excitable when his wife was sailing with him!!

I got to see a fair bit of Jack Marshall and George Taylor when i was in Taipei, although sitting down to lunch with someone is not at all the same as sailing with them. I found them both very personable.

Best regards,
Jon
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  #363  
Old 20th February 2018, 03:29
Fergie Fergie is offline  
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I was 3/E on Loksang from August 1949 to September 1950. In that period Richard Groundwater was Master, Frank Cross Chief Officer, Jack Marshall Second Officer, and a local Chinese Third officer.

We had a number of Chief Engineers and this may not be the correct order, Paddy Richardson, Tony Sanh, Edgeley, Robertson. Second Engineers were Jarl Pestongee (spelling), a wardrobe drinking Aussie who I am pleased to forget, Noel Scott, and one other whose name eludes me after 69 years. A local Chinese boy was Fourth Engineer. Jim Chew was Radio Officer, an Asian surname but from UK, and an Indian Doctor.

I replaced a Third Engineer who had remained in a Saigon hospital having had his face rearranged by a broken bottle. Name unknown to me.

Would like to do it all again!
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  #364  
Old 20th February 2018, 04:09
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I didn't sail with Maxie Groundwater, but i did have Christmas lunch with him in Penang when his command (an executive "yacht") was in port with the ROVER. Bula Cole was Master of the ROVER then, Garth Hammonds was Mate, Harpic (Ted Henderson) was C/E, Neil Guide was 2/E and Colin Rich was 3/E.
I sailed with Paddy R in HANG SANG and he still had his farm in Sha Tin.
Jon
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  #365  
Old 20th February 2018, 17:24
garry Norton garry Norton is offline  
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Bula Cole was a Kiwi ex U.S.S.Co and now lives in Australia
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  #366  
Old 20th February 2018, 20:57
Robert Macdonald Robert Macdonald is offline  
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Richard Groundwater

Richard Groundwater was Maxie Groundwater's elder brother. He was Harbour Master/Pilot in Portland Victoria in 1980s.

Their Father Richard Gerrie Groundwater was also a seafarer. Served with Canadian Pacific on their transp-Pacific liners. Survived the sinking of Armed Merchant Cruiser HMS India in WW1 were he was serving as a Lieutenant RNR. In 1920 he went to Hiongkong and served as Master of the Hongkong and Whampoa dockyard tug Henry Keswick. Died from a heart attack whilst going on home leave on P&O liner Rajputana in 1932.

Maxie I believe was with Glen Line before he came to I-C. That was before Glen Line merged with Blue Funnel in 1935. One Presumes Richard Groundwater also began with Glen Line.

There was a Groundwater pilot in Gladstone, Queensland in 1980s. Not sure whether he was Richard or Maxie's son.
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  #367  
Old 21st February 2018, 07:59
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Harry Dalton when he was Master on the E. Moon, great bloke
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  #368  
Old 22nd February 2018, 07:03
Fergie Fergie is offline  
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I have just finished reading a book. "3 Great Adventure Stories", the section I refer to is "Airline Detective" by Donald Fish. He built up the organisation to combat smuggling crimes being committed by BOAC staff, as it was named then. Eventually 60 mainly stewards were fired, others got away who were couriers. The time period involved is the years either side of 1959. There had been a minor racket earlier with watches from Hong Kong being smuggled to Japan and as the shipments of gold to India was slow by ship the organisation switched to aircraft. As Constellation and Argonaut aircraft became standard so the couriers were recruited.
Loksang was searched just before sailing from Calcutta in March 1950 and 15000 pounds sterling was found in the pedestal supporting the frig compressor. The squad went straight to the pedestal, scratched around and found screws. Our No1 fitter was arrested but he was back in Hong Kong before us, his fine paid. Indian Customs maintained 3,500,000 were still concealed on board. Obviously someone had not been paid and spilt the details.
A chapter in the book deals with the "Great Indian Gold Smuggling case". I often wonder whether Loksang and later Eastern Saga were a part of this case.
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  #369  
Old 22nd February 2018, 07:25
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Fergie View Post
I have just finished reading a book. "3 Great Adventure Stories", the section I refer to is "Airline Detective" by Donald Fish. He built up the organisation to combat smuggling crimes being committed by BOAC staff, as it was named then. Eventually 60 mainly stewards were fired, others got away who were couriers. The time period involved is the years either side of 1959. There had been a minor racket earlier with watches from Hong Kong being smuggled to Japan and as the shipments of gold to India was slow by ship the organisation switched to aircraft. As Constellation and Argonaut aircraft became standard so the couriers were recruited.
Loksang was searched just before sailing from Calcutta in March 1950 and 15000 pounds sterling was found in the pedestal supporting the frig compressor. The squad went straight to the pedestal, scratched around and found screws. Our No1 fitter was arrested but he was back in Hong Kong before us, his fine paid. Indian Customs maintained 3,500,000 were still concealed on board. Obviously someone had not been paid and spilt the details.
A chapter in the book deals with the "Great Indian Gold Smuggling case". I often wonder whether Loksang and later Eastern Saga were a part of this case.
As an old Calcutta run man who joined the Saga in January 1958 immediately after her release, and stayed or 18 months , I am convinced no Indian Customs rummager ever fund anything without a tip off from the smugglers themselves. A form of sharing the profits legally with your adversaries to keep them sweet.

Nick
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  #370  
Old 23rd February 2018, 02:16
Robert Macdonald Robert Macdonald is offline  
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The new Sodom and Gomorrah

The departure of the Great Prophet of the Fast Buck Billy Graham brings to mind a Hebridean Master [not I-C] I sailed with in 1979 on a container ship running Australia-Singapore-Bangkok-Hongkong.

He was a Wee Free and fanatical fan of Billy Graham and spent most of his day in his office reading his bible. He was a good old religious bigot of the type of televangelist so popular in the Unhinged States of America these days. He regarded Bangkok as the new Sodom and Gomorrah

The Chinese crew were regarded as pagans. The Chinese no doubt had sceptical views on Christians especially after the likes of the Taiping Rebellion where millions were killed. Led by a nutter who claimed to be younger brother of Jesus.

The Engineers mostly Britanni from south of Hadrians Wall he regarded as the new Philistines and beyond the pale.

The cadets came in for most admonishment. The well endowed female cadet was regarded as a cross between Scylla, Charbydis, the Rhine Lorelei and Jezabel sent to tempt his crew.

A cadet also a Wee Free from the Hebrides was promised with full hell fire and brimstone having been tempted by a Thai maiden into doing his washing and other services.

A Britanni cadet was damnation bound for having a picture of a Bugis Strret transvestite on his bulkhead.
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  #371  
Old 23rd February 2018, 22:51
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Robert Macdonald View Post
The departure of the Great Prophet of the Fast Buck Billy Graham brings to mind a Hebridean Master [not I-C] I sailed with in 1979 on a container ship running Australia-Singapore-Bangkok-Hongkong.

He was a Wee Free and fanatical fan of Billy Graham and spent most of his day in his office reading his bible. He was a good old religious bigot of the type of televangelist so popular in the Unhinged States of America these days. He regarded Bangkok as the new Sodom and Gomorrah

The Chinese crew were regarded as pagans. The Chinese no doubt had sceptical views on Christians especially after the likes of the Taiping Rebellion where millions were killed. Led by a nutter who claimed to be younger brother of Jesus.

The Engineers mostly Britanni from south of Hadrians Wall he regarded as the new Philistines and beyond the pale.

The cadets came in for most admonishment. The well endowed female cadet was regarded as a cross between Scylla, Charbydis, the Rhine Lorelei and Jezabel sent to tempt his crew.

A cadet also a Wee Free from the Hebrides was promised with full hell fire and brimstone having been tempted by a Thai maiden into doing his washing and other services.

A Britanni cadet was damnation bound for having a picture of a Bugis Strret transvestite on his bulkhead.


Bob, if you still have an interest in what makes a Hebridean unlike any other denizen of Scotland try and get hold of Peter James' Lewis Trilogy, comprising 'The Blackhouse', 'The Lewis Man' and 'The Chessman'. A race apart! Have only just read them and I am already hankering to take a look at the place for myself.

Nick
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  #372  
Old 24th February 2018, 04:59
Robert Macdonald Robert Macdonald is offline  
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Hebrides - It must be the water

"They don't make the wood you know" as Neddy Seagoon was wont to say. Maybe in the case of Isle of Lewis the problem is the water.

Sir James Matheson bought the Scottish Isle of Lewis in 1844 for over half a million pounds and built Lews Castle, near Stornoway. In 1845, he began a programme of improvements on the island, including drainage schemes and road construction. He increased the programme during the Highland Potato Famine and by 1850 had spent some 329,000 on the island. Between 1851 and 1855 he assisted 1,771 people to emigrate.

Sadly when he died Lady Matheson drove all the crofters off the estate forcing many to emigrate to USA / Canada.

Donald the Dotard Trump's mother was born in a small village just outside Stornoway.

Many famous Clipper ship Captains came from Lewis . Port Line had many Stornoway crews in its hey - good men till the demon drink got in to them according to Ken Millar who served his time there.

A good example of water affecting the natives is Washington DC. Given the antics of CIA / FBI and the Five Sided Lunatic Asylum on the Potomac the water must be supsect
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  #373  
Old 24th February 2018, 08:26
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Originally Posted by Robert Macdonald View Post
"... Donald the Dotard Trump's mother was born in a small village just outside Stornoway.

A good example of water affecting the natives is Washington DC. Given the antics of CIA / FBI and the Five Sided Lunatic Asylum on the Potomac the water must be supsect
What has this to do with the Indo China Steam Navigation Company ??
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  #374  
Old 24th February 2018, 16:28
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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Originally Posted by Robert Macdonald View Post
Richard Groundwater was Maxie Groundwater's elder brother. He was Harbour Master/Pilot in Portland Victoria in 1980s.

Their Father Richard Gerrie Groundwater was also a seafarer. Served with Canadian Pacific on their transp-Pacific liners. Survived the sinking of Armed Merchant Cruiser HMS India in WW1 were he was serving as a Lieutenant RNR. In 1920 he went to Hiongkong and served as Master of the Hongkong and Whampoa dockyard tug Henry Keswick. Died from a heart attack whilst going on home leave on P&O liner Rajputana in 1932.

Maxie I believe was with Glen Line before he came to I-C. That was before Glen Line merged with Blue Funnel in 1935. One Presumes Richard Groundwater also began with Glen Line.

There was a Groundwater pilot in Gladstone, Queensland in 1980s. Not sure whether he was Richard or Maxie's son.


I missed this post earlier. The Gladstone pilot must have been Richard's son; Maxie's marriage to Elsa was childless and never struck me as being a very warm one. Richard was a Singapore pilot in the late 1950s and probably moved south when the island became independent a few years later.

I never knew much about Maxie's early life but i thought his father had latterly been master of the HWD salvage tug pre war and Maxie had been born and grown up in HK. I never heard any more than that. Maxie and wife retired to Victoria, B.C.probably in the late 1960s. I phoned him once after I arrived here in 1974 but we never got together. Pity!

Nick
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  #375  
Old 24th February 2018, 16:34
nickwilson89 nickwilson89 is offline  
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I had to attend on board a British tramp once and remember after talking to the master and some of the crew asking the local agent why a British ship had a Scandinavian crew. Of course, it did not but I had never run across a Hebredean accent before!

Nick
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