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The U.S. real roots

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  #1  
Old 28th January 2014, 00:36
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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The U.S. real roots

The baptismal certificate of the first black baby born in what is now St. Augustine (Florida), is recorded in 1606, a year before of Jamestown foundation, the first English colony in North America, and thirteen years before enslaved Africans were first brought to that English colony in 1619.

The real roots of American culture are the foundation in 1565 of the first permanent European settlement by the spaniard Pedro Menendez de Aviles, long before the first British colony in North America.

The 800 original settlers of St. Augustine (the oldest city in USA) included different types of Hispanics and Africans, both free and slaves. When they put their feet in the first permanent settlement, became Hispanic/Latino Americans and African Americans for the first time. This was the genesis of the African American experience, as well as the Hispanic-American experience. Along with the interaction of native, was the genesis of American culture, which characterizes this multicultural country today. "The first freed Black settlement was established in St Augustine; the Emancipation Proclamation was read here; on the very streets that were laid down in 1573 by the Spanish Crown marched Civil Rights activists – nearly four centuries later – calling for the fundamental rights".

USA was founded in a multicultural way, and is not a white nation. What makes the country strong is the great cultural diversity.

Last edited by FILIPVS; 28th January 2014 at 01:37..
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  #2  
Old 28th January 2014, 01:43
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Of course the Spanish were the first to discover of the Bermudas (1505), but failed to plant a flag until the English founded a colony in 1609... 405 years of settlement!!!! ;-)

Bermuda was discovered by Juan de Bermudez in 1505.[1] The island is shown as "La Bermuda" in Peter Martyr's Legatio Babylonica (1511). Bermudez returned again in 1515, with the chronicler Oviedo y Valdés. Oviedo's account of the second visit (published in 1526) records that they made no attempt to land because of weather.

In 1609, Sir George Somers set sail aboard the Sea Venture, the new flagship of the Virginia Company, leading a fleet of nine vessels, loaded with provisions and settlers for the new English colony of Jamestown, in Virginia. The fleet was caught in a storm, and the Sea Venture was separated and began to flounder. When the reefs to the East of Bermuda were spotted, the ship was deliberately driven on them to prevent its sinking, thereby saving all aboard (150 sailors and settlers, and one dog). The survivors spent ten months on Bermuda. Several were lost-at-sea when the Sea Venture's longboat was rigged with a mast and sent in search of Jamestown. Neither it nor its crew were ever seen again. The remainder built two new ships: the Deliverance, largely from the material stripped from the Sea Venture (which sat high-and-dry on the reef, and was still being cannibalised in 1612 – its guns were used to arm a fort) and the Patience. The latter was made necessary by the food stores the survivors had begun to collect and stockpile in Bermuda, and which could not be accommodated aboard the Deliverance. It was built almost entirely from material sourced on the islands. When the two new vessels were complete, most of the survivors set sail, completing their journey to Jamestown.


Sylvester Jordain's "A Discovery of the Barmudas"They arrived there only to find the colony's population almost annihilated by the Starving Time, which had left only 60 survivors out of the 500 who had preceded them, and most of these survivors were sick or dying. The food the Sea Venture survivors brought with them was woefully insufficient, and the colony seemed unviable. It was decided to abandon it, and to return everyone to England. Loaded aboard the two ships, they were prevented from making this evacuation by the timely arrival of another relief fleet, bearing Governor Lord De La Warre, among others. The Sea Venture survivors had brought pork from the pigs that had been found wild on the island, which had presumably been left by previous visitors. This led the Jamestown colonists to refer to "Bermuda Hogs" as a form of currency. Somers returned to Bermuda with the Patience to obtain more food supplies, but died there from a surfeit of pork. The Patience, captained by his nephew, Matthew Somers, returned to England, instead of Virginia. Somers left three volunteers – Carter, Chard and Waters – behind on Bermuda (two when the Deliverance and Patience had departed, and the third following the Patience's return) to maintain the claim of the island for the England, leaving the Virginia Company in possession of the island. As a result, Bermuda has been continuously inhabited since the wrecking of the Sea Venture, and claims its origin from that date, and not the official settlement of 1612.
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  #3  
Old 28th January 2014, 02:03
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In 1614, King's Castle famously replulsed Spain's only ever attack on Bermuda. Two shots were fired from its artillery. although neither struck, the Spanish vessel abandoned the attack (its crew did not realise that the gunners in the fort had only enough ammunition for one more shot).

I guess why the Bermuda Registry is flying the Red Ensign! ;-)
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Old 28th January 2014, 06:39
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Let's not forget the Vikings may have come down into the NE coast of what is now the USA, some place they called "Vinland". West coast Native Americans told tales of strange boats with strange men that may have been Chinese or Japanese.
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Old 28th January 2014, 09:38
Scelerat Scelerat is offline  
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Even the Russians were well established on the West Coast long before the Anglos turned up!
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Old 28th January 2014, 10:28
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don't forget st Brendan and david ap merryck
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  #7  
Old 28th January 2014, 10:42
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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What about Roanoak, Virginia, established 20 years before Jamestown. Is it true that the settlement was abandoned after most of the inhabitants died after eating poisoned paella?

John T

PS Just realised my mistake: Roanoak was in present day North Carolina.

Last edited by trotterdotpom; 28th January 2014 at 15:04.. Reason: Add PS
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Old 28th January 2014, 14:47
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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Vikings? Russians?
What about native americans??
They arrived first.
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Old 28th January 2014, 14:58
Scelerat Scelerat is offline  
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There are some indications, based on archaelogy rather than History, that the "Native American Peoples" exterminated the Aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas in the first few millennia after their migration to that region somewhere between 16000 and 40000 BC. So they, quite possibly, didn't arrive first.
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Old 28th January 2014, 15:04
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TDP: I don't think that paella had been invented then!

Not to forget that Mexico City was founded as Tenochtitlan (Tenosh tit lan) in 1325 by the Mexicas (meshikas). It was a city of around 250,000, swelling to almost 500,000 on market days and absolutely astounded the Spanish Conquistadores when they first set eyes on it.

In 1521, the city fell to the Spanish. The process of integration was very fast, establishing mestizaje. In 1535, Mexico City became the capital of the Spanish Viceroy.

Mexico also included the U.S. states of California, Nevada, Arizona, Colorado and Texas. Thus, racists who complain about the rise of the hispanic populations and spanish speaking in those states are talking rubbish as they have always been hispanic! Don't they watch "Zorro"!

There was no slavery in Mexico although with the rise of caciquismo, many people became "tied" to one hacienda.

One has to admire the sheer balls of the Conquistadores and what they achieved, completely replacing a society that had existed for over five thousand years! However, today, there are still 76 indigenous languages spoken in Mexico and there still exist many "original" indigenous groups such as the Maya, Tarahumara, Yaqui and many others. I am proud to say (probably as a result of this melding of peoples) that racism is not present in Mexico.

Rgds.
Dave
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Old 28th January 2014, 19:40
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scelerat View Post
There are some indications, based on archaelogy rather than History, that the "Native American Peoples" exterminated the Aboriginal inhabitants of the Americas in the first few millennia after their migration to that region somewhere between 16000 and 40000 BC. So they, quite possibly, didn't arrive first.
That's what the Mormons (with a lot of power in USA) say, influenced by false supremacist theories. But since the sixteenth century, the Jesuits knew that Native Americans came across the Bering Strait (then undiscovered) and in this way they were the first to settle in America. This theory is still valid today.

Last edited by FILIPVS; 28th January 2014 at 19:43..
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Old 28th January 2014, 20:47
Scelerat Scelerat is offline  
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That theory is valid, for the Indians, but the more modern theory, not associated with the Mormons, explains the archaeological remains of people who are not Amerindians or of Asiatic genetic origins. Nothing to do with supremacism.
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Old 28th January 2014, 23:38
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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The first African Americans came to Florida in the late 1500s. Most Americans don't realize that African Americans were living in what would become the United States long before the Pilgrims ever landed on Plymouth Rock. The Europeans brought them here from Africa. Most were enslaved in the British Colonies, but there were some free Africans who settled in St. Augustine.

In 1693, the King of Spain wanted to weaken England's rule in the New World. He decreed that slaves who ran away from the British colonies would be free if they converted to Catholicism and declared loyalty to Spain. As this information spread throughout the colonies, many slaves escaped to freedom. Large numbers of these freed slaves helped the Spanish settlers build the Castillo de San Marcos, St. Augustine's great stone fortress.

In 1738, the Spanish governor of Florida, Manuel Montiano, decided to set up a separate town for the free Africans. When Fort Mose was established it became the first free black settlement in America. The location for this settlement was carefully considered. The decision was made to build it two miles north of St. Augustine in a salty marsh, so that it could not act as a military outpost for the town. The settlement around the fort was called Gracia Real de Santa Teresa de Mose to honor the Spanish king (Gracia Real), the patron saint of Spain (Teresa of Avilés), and the Indians of the area who named the place (Mose). It became simply Fort Mose.

Located two miles north of Castillo de San Marcos at St. Augustine, the fort represented a sanctuary offering land and opportunity for African slaves freed from English owners in Carolina and Georgia. The one hundred African Americans who settled in Fort Mose raised food for themselves and other settlements in St. Augustine. They built churches and shops. The men formed their own militia, or military unit. The captain of this militia, Francisco Menendez, was recognized as chief of Fort Mose.

In 1740, the Fort Mose militia and Spanish soldiers defended St. Augustine and the surrounding area when James Olgethorpe attacked them. Most of Fort Mose was destroyed during the attack.

The battle for Fort Mose.

A second Fort Mose was built, but it never really thrived. After the British gained control of Florida in 1763, the inhabitants of Fort Mose, along with most of the Spanish settlers, fled to Cuba.

Fort Mose was the first free African American settlement in America. Today, it is a National Historical landmark on the Florida Black Heritage Trail. Artifacts found on the site reveal the rich culture and traditions of this historical settlement.

http://www.pbchistoryonline.org/midd...Fort_Mose1.htm
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  #14  
Old 29th January 2014, 01:08
trotterdotpom trotterdotpom is offline  
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FilipVs: "The first African Americans came to Florida in the late 1500s. Most Americans don't realize that African Americans were living in what would become the United States long before the Pilgrims ever landed on Plymouth Rock. The Europeans brought them here from Africa. Most were enslaved in the British Colonies, but there were some free Africans who settled in St. Augustine."

That was big of the Spanish to take free Africans to Florida, also sounds a bit far fetched.

I found this on an American timeline of colonisation:

1619
• The first session of the first colonial legislative assembly, the Virginia House of Burgesses, convenes in Jamestown.
• Slavery begins in the colonies, as twenty Africans are brought by a Dutch ship to Jamestown for sale as indentured servants.

I also found that there was a failed Spanish settlement in Chesapeake Bay (Ajácan Mission), that is fairly close to the Lost Colony of Roanoake - I think we can make an intelligent guess as to where that poisoned paella came from!

John T
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Old 29th January 2014, 02:28
Wallace Slough Wallace Slough is offline  
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#10
Dave
I was surprised by your comment, "I am proud to say (probably as a result of this melding of peoples) that racism is not present in Mexico." While I haven't spent time in Mexico for many years, my Aunt's family had cattle and sheep ranches on the Baja peninsula, and were Spanish Basque by origin. I believe their Rancho San Valentin is still in the family today. They were very proud of their Spanish origin, and were sure to let you know they were not of Indian, as they termed it, origin. Perhaps time has changed the interracial actions of Mexicans, but I remember how proud their family was of being Spanish Basque.
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Old 29th January 2014, 14:55
FILIPVS FILIPVS is offline  
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Mexicans are not a " race", are a mixture, and have a european heritage in their blood. They must not be identified as " conquered indians ".
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Old 29th January 2014, 15:38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wallace Slough View Post
#10
Dave
I was surprised by your comment.
Wallace,

Identification with one's origins is still common. I think that this stems from the Spaniards attempts during the Colonial period to categorize people. There were fully fifty two categories from pure spaniard born in Spain to pure indigenous. Also, Mexico has received displaced persons from many countries so the custom stays alive.

Similarly, following the Conquest, there was a huge influx of people from the mediterranean region who came to Mexico to exploit new markets for their goods. Due to their own customs, the communities were and are very insular and so people still refer to themselves as Lebanese for example even though their family moved to Mexico centuries ago.

The history of the Baja Peninsula and the attempts to populate and exploit is very interesting. I went a couple of years back to Santa Rosalia and crossed over the Peninsula to Vizcaina.

My reference was to xenophobia, this does not exist in Mexico.

Rgds.
Dave
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Old 29th January 2014, 16:38
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Mexicans are not a " race", are a mixture, and have a european heritage in their blood. They must not be identified as " conquered indians ".
I agree.

It is fascinating though how the Spanish culture completely displaced in a very short time the indigenous culture. However, religion was another thing! In an attempt to evangelize the native population, the various orders built churches, at first as open air altars. Obviously, the indigenous people were skilled stone carvers and they were put to work to decorate the churches. If you go to the oldest churches, you can see where they sculpted a cherub which is visible to all, however on the back of the head they sculpted the image of a pre-hispanic deity such as Tlaloc, the god of rain! An interesting tale of religious combination is the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe......but that is another tale.

Rgds.
Dave
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Old 29th January 2014, 20:40
Scelerat Scelerat is offline  
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Originally Posted by makko View Post
I agree.

It is fascinating though how the Spanish culture completely displaced in a very short time the indigenous culture. However, religion was another thing! In an attempt to evangelize the native population, the various orders built churches, at first as open air altars. Obviously, the indigenous people were skilled stone carvers and they were put to work to decorate the churches. If you go to the oldest churches, you can see where they sculpted a cherub which is visible to all, however on the back of the head they sculpted the image of a pre-hispanic deity such as Tlaloc, the god of rain! An interesting tale of religious combination is the apparition of the Virgin of Guadalupe......but that is another tale.

Rgds.
Dave
Rather like the Catholic Church's absorption of pre-Christian festivals, like Saturnalia, Yule etc and the adoption of pre-Christian deities as Saints, complete with sacred groves, sacred springs and wells etc.
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Old 28th February 2014, 00:45
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Rather like the Catholic Church's absorption of pre-Christian festivals, like Saturnalia, Yule etc and the adoption of pre-Christian deities as Saints, complete with sacred groves, sacred springs and wells etc.
A bit off the topic but I need to clarify the following:

The false notion that Christmas and other catholic traditions had pagan origins began to spread in the XVII century with the English Puritans. They (the puritans) detested the Christmas with its joyous ceremonies, celebrations and customs. Since the Bible gave no specific date of Christ’s birth, the Puritans argued that it was a sinful contrivance of the Roman Catholic Church that should be abolished. "Christmas celebrations from the 1620s to the 1850s were culturally and legally suppressed and thus, virtually non-existent in the puritan society."(Wikipedia)

These puritans (fanatics and fundamentalists in extreme) were absolutly illiterates in liturgical matters. And their theories about these questions had not any historical base, as all we can read in Thomas Talley's book "The Origins of the Liturgical Year"." Christmas was never a pagan holiday.

Also you can read about this here:

Christmas in Puritan New England
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